Cheating Choice Conundrum

Yeah you like that use of alliteration for a catchy little header....Gewd...gewd
It is time so may i present to you all, the "Cheating Choice Conundrum".

The scenario is John and Wendy have been together for 15 years and five years ago, Wendy had a two week affair with neighbors gardener Ja'vier (pronounced ha-vi-air).
From Wendy's perspective this was a one time test of her faith towards John and she does not regret her two week affair by any means. Wendy did however break off the affair at the time and Ja'vier moved along.

Now here are the facts concerning this scenario.
John is now and forever will be oblivious to this affair.
John has devoted his life to Wendy and will forgive her for this indiscretion. He will never really be able to trust her again in the same way though, being unsure of the effects this will have on the relationship.
Wendy loves John and realizes that she wants to be with him, even more now that she has experienced something different and is no longer in doubt about her desires and feelings towards John.

Should Wendy decide not to tell John about the affair knowing that she already has everything she wants and cant possibly make it better for herself? Or should she tell him knowing he will forgive her but she will lose his trust forever in her eyes? In both outcomes Wendy and John stay together (at least for the near future in this scenario) but does Wendy deal with her guilt at the cost of trust or is Johns trust worth the price of self guilt?

What i find interesting about the scenario is that the affair has already happened so should Wendy make it "real" for John five years after the initial incident.

No. What the mind doesn't know, the heart can't grieve over. Telling her partner is only going to lead to 2 people's lives being complicated. If she has already come to terms with her deception, and she knows Javier is never going to tell her partner, why should she?

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
No. What the mind doesn't know, the heart can't grieve over. Telling her partner is only going to lead to 2 people's lives being complicated. If she has already come to terms with her deception, and she knows Javier is never going to tell her partner, why should she?

This is true, there is no reason other than perhaps she would have to lie if John ever questions her loyalty for whatever reason. He might not but there will always be that chance, and if he does, Wendy might feel guilty for having to lie on those occasions.

If she's managed 5 further years in their relationship without such doubts arising, I'd go for another 5 and just play it by ear. But, then again, I'm not Wendy, and maybe she's not as pragmatic.

Originally posted by TheomExperience
John is now and forever will be oblivious to this affair.
John has devoted his life to Wendy and will forgive her for this indiscretion. He will never really be able to trust her again in the same way though......

How can he forgive her or trust her in the same way for something he is oblivious to? Doesn't make sense.

Personally, I think "IF" he were to be told or find out, he should end it there and then because people do NOT change but merely have the opportunities to grow and therefore the possibilities of doing the same things always remain.

Having had the affair and leaving it so long until now without saying something doesn't inspire confidance in her honesty. Seems like she wishes to see this as OK because time has gone by, she was not caught out and has been able to bury any guilt and responsibility.

People DO NOT CHANGE. They just grow depending on how life plays out. Past events and the decisions that create them will usually remain possibilities in future. Once a cheater, always a potential cheater imo.

@ "people DO NOT CHANGE"

I prefer to go with W.Somerset Maugham's opinion.

“We are not the same persons this year as last; nor are those we love. It is a happy chance if we, changing, continue to love a changed person.”

Originally posted by nerbot

Personally, I think "IF" he were to be told or find out, he should end it there and then because people do NOT change but merely have the opportunities to grow and therefore the possibilities of doing the same things always remain.

I would say that would be like cutting off your nose to spite your face. 15 years, one affair 5 years ago and it hasn't happened since?

Having had the affair and leaving it so long until now without saying something doesn't inspire confidance in her honesty. Seems like she wishes to see this as OK because time has gone by, she was not caught out and has been able to bury any guilt and responsibility.

It seems after 5 years the guilt is too much to bare! Wendy wants to relieve her guilt and shame - she has the desire to confess but at what cost?

People DO NOT CHANGE. They just grow depending on how life plays out. Past events and the decisions that create them will usually remain possibilities in future. Once a cheater, always a potential cheater imo.

Anything is possible but it seems in the OP that she realized she had the best after trying something different.

My advice to Wendy is - do not cause unnecessary hurt just to relieve your guilt. I have seen people do this and it is cruel - the past is over and what remains of it is in you. Wendy should deal with what is in her and realize that sharing it with John will not achieve anything good.

reply to post by TheomExperience


For who's benefit would she be telling him? If for her own, leave it, if for his (and she's ok that if his decision is to break the relationship to be sad and accept), tell. It's better for her to stop being selfish and tend this 'guilt' thing that is corrosive and often a great cover for simply doing what is appropriate.

if she can't let it go, rather pick something he likes and start doing it for him as a continuous expression of love to him, as a bit of a sacrifice, but that turns into a blessing for both sides eventually.

If she does tell him, be ready and willing to forgive his mirroring behaviour. A relationship is a system, things rarely are one sided.

: a catholic friend once asked me "So what are you giving up for Lent?" Now this was a completely alien concept to me, so as the smart Aleck I thought for a moment and replied: Guilt, I'll give up feeling guilty for this lent thing of yours. We joked about it a few times in the next week or two, subconsciously it slipped in and turn out to be the best thing to give up EVER! It implies doing only what you won't feel guilty about, and when you do mess up, it happens, saying sorry immediately. The reduction in cognitive dissonance is remarkable.

Originally posted by nerbot

How can he forgive her or trust her in the same way for something he is oblivious to? Doesn't make sense.

He would be oblivious if she does not say anything and trust is no issue. If she says something then obviously he is oblivious no more. He could still possibly forgive her though even if the trust didn't have that innocent flavor to it.

Personally, I think "IF" he were to be told or find out, he should end it there and then because people do NOT change but merely have the opportunities to grow and therefore the possibilities of doing the same things always remain.

That is fair enough. If people take these opportunities to grow and do so, is that not changing? The possibility for her to cheat again does remain, but it was and always will be there regardless of this knowledge. The interesting thing is if she does not tell, then in John's reality she will always be innocent. If Wendy feared that John would leave her she would not tell him this information i think.

Having had the affair and leaving it so long until now without saying something doesn't inspire confidance in her honesty. Seems like she wishes to see this as OK because time has gone by, she was not caught out and has been able to bury any guilt and responsibility.

True and Wendy could even be selfish by wanting to clear her guilt. This is what the choice is about for Wendy, to deal with her deepest guilt at the cost of her trust with the person she has chosen to be with.

People DO NOT CHANGE. They just grow depending on how life plays out. Past events and the decisions that create them will usually remain possibilities in future. Once a cheater, always a potential cheater imo.

Twice you have said people do not change but then made a statement contradicting it like saying they grow. I am not sure what you mean by grow but i would think it means change or evolve. Maybe you are right and Wendy will cheat again so the question is should she reveal her dark secret to John not knowing if she would ever do it again or not.

Originally posted by TheomExperience
Yeah you like that use of alliteration for a catchy little header....Gewd...gewd

It is time so may i present to you all, the "Cheating Choice Conundrum".

The scenario is John and Wendy have been together for 15 years and five years ago, Wendy had a two week affair with neighbors gardener Ja'vier (pronounced ha-vi-air).
From Wendy's perspective this was a one time test of her faith towards John and she does not regret her two week affair by any means. Wendy did however break off the affair at the time and Ja'vier moved along.

Now here are the facts concerning this scenario.
John is now and forever will be oblivious to this affair.
John has devoted his life to Wendy and will forgive her for this indiscretion. He will never really be able to trust her again in the same way though, being unsure of the effects this will have on the relationship.
Wendy loves John and realizes that she wants to be with him, even more now that she has experienced something different and is no longer in doubt about her desires and feelings towards John.

Should Wendy decide not to tell John about the affair knowing that she already has everything she wants and cant possibly make it better for herself? Or should she tell him knowing he will forgive her but she will lose his trust forever in her eyes? In both outcomes Wendy and John stay together (at least for the near future in this scenario) but does Wendy deal with her guilt at the cost of trust or is Johns trust worth the price of self guilt?

What i find interesting about the scenario is that the affair has already happened so should Wendy make it "real" for John five years after the initial incident.

Nice try, Wendy. ;-) Kidding.

Tell John. He deserves to know. Trust can always be reestablished, especially if both parties are truly in love. My husband and I both went through some indiscretions and it actually ended up freeing us to have a more "open" relationship. We wouldn't have it any other way now.

I thought the most interesting part was your feeling a need to help with the name pronunciation.

Interesting question. But there are a couple of problems I have with the paramaters you've set.

Conflicting Statement 1.
From Wendy's perspective this was a one time test of her faith towards John and she does not regret her two week affair by any means.
and
does Wendy deal with her guilt at the cost of trust

If she doesn't regret the affair by any means plus "the affair" being the thing that actually finalizes her decision to be with John, who then live happily ever after, why would she have any guilt???

Conflicting Statement 2.
John has devoted his life to Wendy and will forgive her for this indiscretion.
and
He will never really be able to trust her again in the same way though, being unsure of the effects this will have on the relationship.

If he can never Trust her again in the same way, then he hasn't actually forgiven her. The continued loss of trust at that point is a result of not forgiving her actions, since doing so would mean she would then be re-established in the previous "trusted" catagory as she was before she lossed it.

Originally posted by mOjOm
Interesting question. But there are a couple of problems I have with the paramaters you've set.

Conflicting Statement 1.
From Wendy's perspective this was a one time test of her faith towards John and she does not regret her two week affair by any means.
and
does Wendy deal with her guilt at the cost of trust

If she doesn't regret the affair by any means plus "the affair" being the thing that actually finalizes her decision to be with John, who then live happily ever after, why would she have any guilt???

The guilt comes from hiding something from her partner not what she actually did. Knowing she will have to possibly lie in the future. She has lasted five years fine with the minimal guilt so it is only something Wendy is considering in this interactive scenario

Conflicting Statement 2.
John has devoted his life to Wendy and will forgive her for this indiscretion.
and
He will never really be able to trust her again in the same way though, being unsure of the effects this will have on the relationship.

If he can never Trust her again in the same way, then he hasn't actually forgiven her. The continued loss of trust at that point is a result of not forgiving her actions, since doing so would mean she would then be re-established in the previous "trusted" catagory as she was before she lossed it.

edit on 5-8-2013 by mOjOm because: (no reason given)

It is possible to forgive someone and then develop insecurities related to the a new found awareness.
Wendy can never be sure from this point if John trusts her the same. John can never be sure that Wendy wont ever do it again even though he wants to believe her. You are right though it wont be the same trust as it was before due to a new idea in both of their heads. Trust needs a scale of say 1-10, because very few people can be considered 100% trustworthy given the nature of circumstance.

Originally posted by RadarOReilly

Nice try, Wendy. ;-) Kidding.

Tell John. He deserves to know. Trust can always be reestablished, especially if both parties are truly in love. My husband and I both went through some indiscretions and it actually ended up freeing us to have a more "open" relationship. We wouldn't have it any other way now.

I thought the most interesting part was your feeling a need to help with the name pronunciation.

I am glad you found some of it interesting. I was aiming for the whole immerse effect to make it feel more real lol
Changing the parameters for trust sounds like a good solution to the conundrum if they are both keen to stay together.

Originally posted by RadarOReilly


Tell John. He deserves to know. Trust can always be reestablished, especially if both parties are truly in love. My husband and I both went through some indiscretions and it actually ended up freeing us to have a more "open" relationship. We wouldn't have it any other way now.

I thought the most interesting part was your feeling a need to help with the name pronunciation.

RadarOReilly,

I would love to hear more about your situation with you and your husband having an "Open Relationship". I am at the point in my life where I think the old paradigm of relationships, and marriage are quickly changing. I don't condone cheating, but the fact is people seem to be going it more and more these days because of stagnation in relationships.

Would you be willing to do a thread on this topic? It would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

RT


PS. I thought the name pronunciation bit was interesting myself.

Originally posted by Realtruth

Originally posted by RadarOReilly


Tell John. He deserves to know. Trust can always be reestablished, especially if both parties are truly in love. My husband and I both went through some indiscretions and it actually ended up freeing us to have a more "open" relationship. We wouldn't have it any other way now.

I thought the most interesting part was your feeling a need to help with the name pronunciation.

RadarOReilly,

I would love to hear more about your situation with you and your husband having an "Open Relationship". I am at the point in my life where I think the old paradigm of relationships, and marriage are quickly changing. I don't condone cheating, but the fact is people seem to be going it more and more these days because of stagnation in relationships.

Would you be willing to do a thread on this topic? It would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

RT


PS. I thought the name pronunciation bit was interesting myself.

RT, I've talked about it tangentially in a few threads, I think. Just PM me for more. Not sure the topic is ATS material or not.

reply to post by TheomExperience


it would be selfish for her to tell. So she wants a clean conscience..... ok.....does she deserve one? You live with it.

What she could do is forgive any infidelity her partner may have without making a peep about it.

she could even tell him that she would like for him to know that he can have a person of his choice join them intimately for a one time deal and let him enjoy himself ...or give him a free pass to find carnal love for one night of his choice with anyone he chooses.......if she is really sorry.

If not just lose sleep, question yourself and deal with it. forever........that would be the most fair.

EDIT TO ADD:
its what I did. I cheated on my wife when we first got married. It would make.me feel great to tell her....but woukd destroy her as well as make our love suffer. We adore each other. We would die without the other.....the bond is too great now.

what I do is just live with it. It is my eternal shame and punishment that I chose. She is worth it for me to suffer this alone. I told her she can have a fling if she was ever curious and that I could forgive her for any infidelity as long as it wasn't a real relationship ......sex? sure I don't care...I do but not more than I love her. also I told her that I can deal with another man in our bed as far as an adventure....so....that is my way.

I think one needs to look at the situation as a whole.

First we need to see what the constructs of the marriage and relationship are, meaning if they believe a certain way of life hearing the truth could devastate him, and from a selfish standpoint she would be the only one to gain, because then she would have it off of her mind, and he would bear the weight.

Now if he is forgiving and open-minded he may learn to understand why she did it, and be able to explore himself if the relationship has somehow stagnated.

Honesty is the best policy, but we seem to live in a world of wordplay, and lies to the highest office of the USA. It's always because we want to protect the other party, but the fact is we do things for the experience and net benefit for oneself.