I'm A "Scathing Atheist." Ask Me Anything.

From an early age I wanted to know about God, but although my family was Christian, they
weren't very religious.

So at about seven or eight years old I asked for--and received permission--to begin attending
different churches by riding the church buses each provided. I attended Baptist, Church of Christ,
Presbyterian, Methodist....and eventually decided to become an Episcopalian.

From there I went thru bible study/catechism, became an altar boy, and was very active in
church and church functions.

Then sometime in my early twenties, when I began reading about other world religions, I had
an epiphany . It seemed to me that the Christian God was WAY too picky. I couldn't understand
how he could doom someone to hell for not believing in JC, when that person was from another
part of the world where the major religion was not Christianity.

And so I gave up on Christianity because any God (that I could believe in) could never be that
callous. No God worthy of worship could ever exhibit such a lack of empathy for the plight of people
whose entire social peer group believed in *another* God. But that's what Christianity taught---
believe in Jesus, or burn in hell.

And so I became an Agnostic...one who is anti-religion.

My question/questions are...Where do you believe your consciousness comes from?

Do you believe that your consciousness arises from the biological material that you are made of
exclusively? If that's the case it would seem that there would be a blueprint for you. In theory
if you duplicated this blueprint, you would duplicate the consciousness ...?

You see, that is the question that always stumps me. Why am I even aware of myself?

And especially, why am I aware and sentient HERE in this place--on this tiny planet, and NOW--
at this particular time in the universal history? Could it all be chance?
Could my consciousness have never existed if the right circumstances of exploding stars
pouring out the right materials at the right time had never exploded in the first place?

Sometimes I get so totally lost in this enigma that I actually scream....

....though, I try not to do it when people are around

I'm A "Scathing Atheist." Ask Me Anything.,

Ever tickled by doubts of your atheist-ness??
(or whatever the word is. )

We often hear of identical twins having some kind of psychic connection. eg, one injures themselves and the other feels the pain, even when quite a distance from each other. Do you have any theories on this?

Like the thread s+f

Originally posted by HairlessApe

Originally posted by rickymouse
How can you believe that there is nothing intelligent structuring this universe? Even chaos has structure, it has a defined path. I wouldn't want to live in the world of Pan.

How can I believe it? A distinct lack of scientifically verifiable evidence.

As I stated previously, it isn't that I WISH to live in a world without a god, it's simply that I look at the facts and make no assumptions. I believe only what is verified. I WANT to live in a universe in which I am supreme ruler, have infinite power, and all of my friends and family have perfect lives. But that doesn't exist.

It depends on ones definition of god. To me god is a link between all living things. The Ka or the ability to communicate with all those of a kind. Depending on what or whom you wish to communicate with defines the Ka.

I don't look as god being an individual, it is a type of psychic communication, a communication they want us to believe is lost to humans. This way they can divide us to prey on us, using our greed to trick us to follow them.

Maybe you already know this, maybe you are one of tptb that profit by us not having this ability. I cannot see that we would have lost this ability like they say from advancement of our species, I would think that we are taught to ignore this communication. I can see that this collective consciousness is very possible, I bet that if they somehow scrambled the signals, the super intelligent who have the ability to share certain kinds of consciousness at a specific frequency, would loose their intellect. I think the mind is a big processor, it is the desire of the person that steers the desired frequency pattern of this communication. If you want to be an artist, you can link to other artists. If you want to be a physicist, you link to others of your kind. You learn to hear a certain frequency pattern.

The problem with this is that if you are deceitful or evil, you will connect with others of your kind, learning to interpret the pattern and allowing you to think like them and fit into their social class with them. This link with others that are disturbed may have been construed as being a demon, with learning how to use the combined consciousness energy to do some crazy things. I believe the churches wanted to block this communication, knowing that this communication and energy developed by the link could be used for what we consider evil. Which it has in the past and is still being done.

This is related to the Alpha and Beta traits of people. Always remember though, that just because millions of people believe something....it doesn't mean it is the truth. I am trying to learn to control this link to be able to learn from it. I have no intent to take control of the world as others do, but I do not want others trying to steer me away from the truth either. People have no comprehension as to the possibility that we are controlled by others without our knowledge of it, this has been going on for so many thousands of years that our conditioning is set into our culture so strongly that it is hard to think out of the box.

Originally posted by HairlessApe

Originally posted by hotel1

Originally posted by HairlessApe

Originally posted by hotel1

Originally posted by HairlessApe

Originally posted by hotel1

Originally posted by HairlessApe

Originally posted by hotel1
Do you believe there is anything out there greater than yourself?.

That depends on your definition of "greater than myself." Could you be more specific?

Do you for instance believe in the forces of chance, destiny, karma, and such like?.

Chance is a mathematical probability and can be scientifically verified. Karma... The belief that good things happen to good people... Is true in my opinion to some extent, but that's only because I believe that humans generally want to treat one another fairly - it does not come from an external force or anything supernatural. Destiny, no. I do not believe in anything supernatural. If something we think is supernatural today is later explained by science, it is no longer supernatural.

I see, Would it be fair to say that you consider an individual to be master of their own fate.

Depends on your definition of fate.

Rephrase; solely responsible for the direction their life takes and its circumstances.

For the most part, yes. Obviously circumstances arise in life that are beyond our control, but other than that, yes, I believe people guide their own life journeys.

Do you believe those circumstances that our beyond our control our subject to the control of some other force, or entity?. By the by I am in no way attempting to trip you up, Its just that I find discussions like this one are a very effective way to explore the human condition.

reply to post by vethumanbeing


Pan was just invented to describe a type of person or personality. A person who is self centered, thinking only of his own rewards and not for a community effort. It describes those who don't care about screwing others as long as they get ahead. The goat was chosen as a representative of this kind of individual because it would consume almost anything in it's path. I know a half dozen people who fit this description, they are not evil, just tricksters of a sort. They seem to have territories and only fight amongst themselves if they infringe on the others territory. They gobble up all of what the sheep have, leaving them with little to live on. This strengthens the sheep though, once a very powerful sheep emerges, it gives confidence to the other sheep and they destroy the goat. This is coming shortly. The age of the goat is over.

Strangely I have no desire to ask an atheist a question, the answer will be at the very best boring and repetitive.

What could you offer any one here, that is worth any value, hope, peace or joy.

You live and then die and life may be good but will then be bad.
Science is the answer to everything but doesnt have any answers, its just data,

Yawn, I am putting myself to sleep typing boring rhetoric stuff.

Good luck, what do you wish to achieve in this thread...

Atheism is just as much of a religion as any other. Folks put their "faith" in science, believing that it can provide the answers to all the mysteries of the Universe, when really, many of the ideas scientists hold dear are nothing more than theories. (and, science has kind of a track record of being wrong at times)

At least I (as an Agnostic) can admit to simply not having the answers...nor do I feel any such group can provide them. I'm content to simply enjoy my time here, whether it's all I have, or just part of the whole. Worrying about "why" or "how" is fun occasionally, but to do so endlessly is to simply ignore what is around us.

To each their own, live and let live, and do unto others, yada yada yada. These basic HUMAN truths are what is really important, not all the window dressing we give them to define these ideas as a religion.

Originally posted by HairlessApe

Originally posted by rickymouse
How can you believe that there is nothing intelligent structuring this universe? Even chaos has structure, it has a defined path. I wouldn't want to live in the world of Pan.

How can I believe it? A distinct lack of scientifically verifiable evidence.

As I stated previously, it isn't that I WISH to live in a world without a god, it's simply that I look at the facts and make no assumptions. I believe only what is verified. I WANT to live in a universe in which I am supreme ruler, have infinite power, and all of my friends and family have perfect lives. But that doesn't exist.

I hear this claim by many atheists, that they only believed in things that are "verified"...and I find that extremely hard to believe myself.

Hardly anything "known" to humans is "verified"...we make assumptions all the time, we only have a "best understanding" of most things, and there are very very few absolute truths (most exist in mathematics).

As soon as I saw this claim from you, I had to check your thread history because I knew that I would find something you believe that isn't "verified". It didn't take long...actually one of your most recent threads where you created a thread making a claim that a newly discovered planet "rains glass sideways". In this thread, you state this claim as a fact...but it is not...it is a guess. It is the best guess based off many guesses...there is no way to verify it, there is no way to test it, there is no way to directly observe it...and yet you seem to "believe" this to be true. This guess was based off many assumptions and the false belief that we would have all the information and knowledge available to know what exactly is going on in that planet. And yet you didn't seem to have any problems creating an entire thread on it and presenting it as fact.

I could move on to more examples, and show you how you make assumptions in your everyday life to base your beliefs on...but I don't think it is necessary. I'll simply get to my point.

So how is what you have done with this any different than what a believer does with god? You are both using assumptions and incomplete information to base what you believe in.

I have another question for you, but will put it in another reply.

Originally posted by HairlessApe

Originally posted by caterpillage
Do you think there is anything more to who we are, than simply who we are? Does any aspect of us persist after death?

All of the carbon and iron in your body was formed in the cores of high-mass stars billions of years ago

Again, is that 100% concretely verified?

Or is it just our current best guess?

Are you familiar with The Allegory Of The Cave?

If so, how do you think this could relate to the concept of god?


If not, do you think it is possible for one person to experience something and not have the ability to correctly relate that experience to others, and so in attempting to relate that experience...they screw it up and create an illogical re-telling of it?

Do you have any problem with aspiring to these concepts?

Absolute Honesty
Absolute Love
Absolute Unselfishness
Absolute Purity
Absolute Forgiveness

If you don't, then you for all intents and purposes are a follower of Jesus. The "Church" has surrounded Jesus with so much mysticism and liturgy that it clouds what Jesus was really about. Those 5 "absolutes" are the essentials of the teachings of Jesus. The "Church" is a power/money thing just like politics. The real Jesus is a simple man with a simple message who wanted to gather followers and spread the word that those absolutes have the power to change the world for the better.

Originally posted by CirqueDeTruth
My question would be ...

Of which belief sets do you hold the most interest in?

After all cultural sociology, anthropology, and philosophy is a science of thought if you will. Of which things in these areas, do you hold interest in or are drawn to?

Cirque

Belief set? I suppose the closest thing I have to this is the general guidelines of secular humanism.

I have a wide range of interests in the sciences and soft sciences and my favorite among them would be astronomy, anthropology, physics, and although the science is so new that it's often filled with "woo" - quantum physics. I'm a bit skeptical of the usefulness and validity of philosophy, though I do believe it has it's place in society.

Originally posted by DeadSeraph
Why do you think your opinion matters?

For the same reasons you believe yours matter, most likely.

Originally posted by rival
From an early age I wanted to know about God, but although my family was Christian, they
weren't very religious.

So at about seven or eight years old I asked for--and received permission--to begin attending
different churches by riding the church buses each provided. I attended Baptist, Church of Christ,
Presbyterian, Methodist....and eventually decided to become an Episcopalian.

From there I went thru bible study/catechism, became an altar boy, and was very active in
church and church functions.

Then sometime in my early twenties, when I began reading about other world religions, I had
an epiphany . It seemed to me that the Christian God was WAY too picky. I couldn't understand
how he could doom someone to hell for not believing in JC, when that person was from another
part of the world where the major religion was not Christianity.

And so I gave up on Christianity because any God (that I could believe in) could never be that
callous. No God worthy of worship could ever exhibit such a lack of empathy for the plight of people
whose entire social peer group believed in *another* God. But that's what Christianity taught---
believe in Jesus, or burn in hell.

And so I became an Agnostic...one who is anti-religion.

My question/questions are...Where do you believe your consciousness comes from?

Do you believe that your consciousness arises from the biological material that you are made of
exclusively? If that's the case it would seem that there would be a blueprint for you. In theory
if you duplicated this blueprint, you would duplicate the consciousness ...?

You see, that is the question that always stumps me. Why am I even aware of myself?

And especially, why am I aware and sentient HERE in this place--on this tiny planet, and NOW--
at this particular time in the universal history? Could it all be chance?
Could my consciousness have never existed if the right circumstances of exploding stars
pouring out the right materials at the right time had never exploded in the first place?

Sometimes I get so totally lost in this enigma that I actually scream....

....though, I try not to do it when people are around

edit on 5-8-2013 by rival because: (no reason given)

I believe that a large sum of consciousness does indeed come from biology, though there is some scientific that it comes from elsewhere. If there is another source, I firmly believe science will discover it - which ultimately prove that it is not a supernatural source - regardless of whether or not said source is internal or external. I'm frankly confused about why the idea that these things came about naturally are considered by some to be less beautiful than if someone or something designed it all. To me, it's comparable to finding a beautiful mural - finding out that it was created by the natural processes that occur on planet Earth - and then discarding it simply because no painter can autograph it.

As for the question of "why am I aware?" I'm not sure there is a "why." It isn't a prerequisite of life. And that doesn't make life less beautiful. If you believe in destiny, you are now free to carve your own rather than having the road paved out for you.

reply to post by HairlessApe


Nice Sagan Avatar.

Hairless Ape, why aren't you agnostic, rather than an atheist?

Atheists to me start out on the right path, asking for truth from science and observation / logic rather than asking to be dictated to by a religion, but then they make the mistake of having faith just as religious do- faith that there is no deity or metaphysical reality, even though they have no evidence of this. So to me, the only group who isn't believing or having faith in something without proof is agnosticism. Atheists afterall don't merely believe in the non-necessity of a deity to explain the world, they believe in the certain abscence of deities.

Although to be fair, most atheists I have pointed this out to have aceded that they are ultimately agnostics, but prefer the title "atheist" because it is edgy, haha.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

I'm A "Scathing Atheist." Ask Me Anything.,

Ever tickled by doubts of your atheist-ness??
(or whatever the word is.

)

The word is atheism, of course.

And no, not really. Sometimes I think the Universe is amazing beyond comprehension, but that doesn't make be believe someone is responsible for it's beauty.

As I've said in previous posts - I tried to be faithful at one point in my life. Much like most legitimate atheists do. I simply couldn't.

Originally posted by greavsie1971
We often hear of identical twins having some kind of psychic connection. eg, one injures themselves and the other feels the pain, even when quite a distance from each other. Do you have any theories on this?

Like the thread s+f

edit on 5-8-2013 by greavsie1971 because: (no reason given)

I'm not a biologist or a psychologist, but I would wager that much of it has to do with being so incredibly closely related genetically, growing up in an extremely similar environments, having a level of a loving platonic which most humans beings will never experience, and many other factors which are beyond my expertise to make a guess about. I also don't believe these cases of psychic connections are scrutinized in a proper manner very often, causing to be the reports of them to be of a questionable quality. I would also like to point out that there are many identical twins who do not claim any such connection.

Originally posted by hotel1

Originally posted by HairlessApe

Originally posted by hotel1

Originally posted by HairlessApe

Originally posted by hotel1

Originally posted by HairlessApe

Originally posted by hotel1

Originally posted by HairlessApe

Originally posted by hotel1
Do you believe there is anything out there greater than yourself?.

That depends on your definition of "greater than myself." Could you be more specific?

Do you for instance believe in the forces of chance, destiny, karma, and such like?.

Chance is a mathematical probability and can be scientifically verified. Karma... The belief that good things happen to good people... Is true in my opinion to some extent, but that's only because I believe that humans generally want to treat one another fairly - it does not come from an external force or anything supernatural. Destiny, no. I do not believe in anything supernatural. If something we think is supernatural today is later explained by science, it is no longer supernatural.

I see, Would it be fair to say that you consider an individual to be master of their own fate.

Depends on your definition of fate.

Rephrase; solely responsible for the direction their life takes and its circumstances.

For the most part, yes. Obviously circumstances arise in life that are beyond our control, but other than that, yes, I believe people guide their own life journeys.

Do you believe those circumstances that our beyond our control our subject to the control of some other force, or entity?. By the by I am in no way attempting to trip you up, Its just that I find discussions like this one are a very effective way to explore the human condition.

No, I don't. I think they can be easily explained by probability.

And I'm enjoying the discussion, but I believe a simple answer to this question suffices.

Originally posted by AlienScience

Originally posted by HairlessApe

Originally posted by caterpillage
Do you think there is anything more to who we are, than simply who we are? Does any aspect of us persist after death?

All of the carbon and iron in your body was formed in the cores of high-mass stars billions of years ago

Again, is that 100% concretely verified?

Or is it just our current best guess?

It's about as scientifically verified as gravity. And by that I mean the theory (scientific theory - not colloquial theory) may change, but we have a basic understanding of the process which is sufficiently clear.

We create our own elements in labs based upon our understanding of these principles.