Nicola Tesla. Stifled Hero.

I think people can revere his scientific accomplishments without being in agreement with is eugenics views....

At my gym I like to spar with one guy because he is a very good fighter but i can't stomach is political views religious views or even his personality.

I still admire his skills but think he is a crappy person. I mean for me and my views he is a crappy person but for others he could be a swell guy.

One thing about tesla... you may dislike his eugenics views or like his eugenics views.. but regardless of that.. it does not diminish his scientific accomplishments.

His views are like a wrapper to his accomplishments.. are they going to be any less impressive simply because it is in a eugenics wrapper??

would you decline a brick of gold wrapped in crap??

reply to post by votan

That is really the point of this.

Tesla was a very good inventor, much of our modern lives depend on his work. But why can't we leave it with that. Let's not make a saint out of him because he wasn't. Let's not act as if he was working for the betterment of "all mankind" because his idea of what that meant was pretty different from what most people would consider it to be.

He wanted to mandate sterilization for those he thought "unworthy". For their own good...of course.

Of course Tesla would be stuck or "believe" in his own ways.. Quite stubbornly..

And in any scientists then would have been then-- But Tesla had his views just just from common "knowledge" or so he was himself --

And that's just it- we are all are own enemy in some way...

His deep way of thinking, i believe came from other forms of tuition and not just the scale of what he was taught or even his environment factors.. Yes he was stubborn and too the point - But at the same time, stubborn too his way of thinking,,, Just like any man with brilliance should be... Cold, Truthful, Direct. And set in there own ways..

Sorry Phase .. Why shade back old black cornered walls again ---in such a time then technology Tesla knew we would all have, just getting too knowing now.

reply to post by Phage


Maybe Tesla was sick and tired of the genetic that made obesity, and wanted to fix humanities obese problem along with humanities energy problem.


But sadly, due to greed and power. People are still fat, and humans still gotta pay for power.

Wagner was an anti-semite
Beethoven was a jerk
Mozart was a pervert

Yet we still admire them regardless of beliefs or lifestyle choices. The obsession with Tesla is the kind of thing where the good outweighs the bad. He is seen as the struggling scientist that no body understands. Not unlike Beethoven who was seen as the struggling artist who is misunderstood.

reply to post by asmall89

I like all of their music...well..Wagner...maybe not so much.

I don't think there are many who claim that they were heros of any sort. I don't think any one claims they were working for the betterment of mankind. Different story with Tesla though.

I think an interesting question that is suggested by this thread is who can we really point to in modern history that both revolutionized the world and also had unquestionably great character?

I've always thought that one great leader with the highest moral authority combined with genius could start the process of reversing a lot of the sorry ethics that plague all sectors of society. I'm not sure that we have seen this type of person rise to power. It's almost a safe assumption that anyone who is in a high position has skeletons in the closet.

Is it possible that the genius needed to bring about significant change in the world is by nature associated with looser morals? I've read a few times that CEO's and politicians etc. are much more likely to be sociopathic. Maybe the process of accessing the greatest genius in our minds requires one to free itself from norms to the point of completely eliminating the ethical box.

I've read that a Zen practice is to train in showing no reaction to the most gruesome images, ideas, stories etc. To be able to hear a description of a baby being murdered stoically, for example. I believe it is an esoteric practice in many traditions to experiment in doing the opposite of what one has always considered to be right.

If this were true, then I wonder how many would be willing to sacrifice being "good" in the name of being smart.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by votan

 

That is really the point of this.

Tesla was a very good inventor, much of our modern lives depend on his work. But why can't we leave it with that. Let's not make a saint out of him because he wasn't. Let's not act as if he was working for the betterment of "all mankind" because his idea of what that meant was pretty different from what most people would consider it to be.

He wanted to mandate sterilization for those he thought "unworthy". For their own good...of course.

well maybe in his eyes he saw it as a betterment of mankind.. had you been born into a world where the nazis won you would be discussing about an influential figure who had different thoughts on that matter..... your feeling about that person would be the same feelings you have about tesla.

then you would have people who would see him as a saint.

well he did benefit the common man and mankind...... not in the way he wanted to.. but he really wasn't a eugenicist..he just had those views... so i really don't know how his inventions could have been applied solely to eugenics and not other things.

had his inventions been solely applicable to eugenics then he would have only benefited mankind in a world that embraced eugenics.. and since we live in a world that didn't embrace it.. at least to his or hitler's level.. then we can safely say he did benefit mankind because his inventions have been used to do so.

except you can think .. have we really used his work to benefit man?? could it have been used differently??

I think he can be made out into a scientific hero...based on the body of his work not on his opinions about eugenics. when i think of eugenics..I don't think tesla . all he did was express his opinions.... Did he make any scientific advancement in the science of eugenics?? if he didn't and his work was not exclusively made solely for eugenics.. i don't think it really matters if people revere him despite his views about his fellow man.

His eugenics views really do not change my opinion about him... the only thing your thread did is point out that he was a prick to work with.

Originally posted by Phage
Do we really want to idolize a eugenicist? Was Tesla really working for the common man?

Yes he was. His dream was free energy for all, means no wars and no money slavery like we see today.

Tesla could be harsh at times, openly expressing disgust for overweight people, such as when he fired a secretary because of her weight.

Maybe this is the only way to tell overweight people that they have a problem

He was quick to criticize clothing. On several occasions, Tesla directed a subordinate to go home and change her dress.

Maybe she was showing too much skin.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by votan

 

That is really the point of this.

Tesla was a very good inventor, much of our modern lives depend on his work. But why can't we leave it with that.

agreed..

but sometimes people can't help but wonder how it could have been different..



(also if that's the conclusion, does that invalidate the premise of this thread?)

reply to post by votan

well maybe in his eyes he saw it as a betterment of mankind..

This. I think it is false that eugenicists were somehow evil or malevolent. They pushed eugenics because they thought it would make mankind more intelligent, healthy, and would be great for society in general, and even dysgenic groups themselves. So I think he worked for all mankind, from his point of view.

What the quote about eugenics proves is that he was misguided or ignorant, as were many at the time. But it does not neccessarily reflect badly on his character.

reply to post by Phage

reply to post by Phage
The basis of eugenics is that some humans are more suitable to exist than others, based solely on their genetic heritage. Whether or not it was "thought" to be beneficial is not really relevant. What is relevant is what it implies and the attitude toward humans that it represents. The idea is that some are more human than others and that there are those who have the right to decide which are which.

The basis of eugenics is improvement in human genetics, and in our case even by force. The idea that eugenics is somehow about who is more or less human (whatever that means) or about right to exist is naive and untrue except for the most extreme of eugenicists. Those who wanted to kill people and considered other races to be animals, and such. I dont think this was Teslas case.

One of the worst things that Hitler did was taint the discussion of eugenics.
Now reasonable visionaries cannot have a discussion of the subject without the smaller minds screaming about Nazi's and mass executions.

Phage...I expected better than to push such things.

As far as Tesla. Good inventor and thinker, his views were on par for a pre-technological era that wanted to better the human race, but lacking the vision to see a technological answer to it. I don't fault the man on a desire to see humanity increase in ability while balancing nature...however, I think a consideration of means and methods should have entered his mind.

As far as his dislike of the overweight and weirdly dressed. well, people aren't perfect. alpha genius's tend to also glaringly show their flaws.

reply to post by SaturnFX

Now reasonable visionaries cannot have a discussion of the subject without the smaller minds screaming about Nazi's and mass executions.

Reasonable visionaries who discuss eugenics? Visionaries who dream about forced sterilizations and being able to decide who is fit to reproduce? You can't be serious. Do you actually believe that garbage? Let's sterilize someone because they have a congential condition, never mind that they actually could bear the first truly great leader in ages or scientific genius. No matter how you try to sugar coat it, that's what eugenics is. Deciding that someone is inferior, not worth having children. A drag on the human "race". "Sorry sir, you don't qualify"...snip.

Phage...I expected better than to push such things.

Gosh. I'm sorry. I don't expect anything of you. I take it as it comes.

I only mentioned Nazis in regard to "thinking they were doing the right thing". I never compared methods or other aspects of ideology.

reply to post by Phage


- not sure Phage to answer yes or no on your OP
but interesting you use the phrase "genius"

...many, many examples of people who made 'technical Inventions' by dreams or 'by being shown'
many examples of musicians, who said they 'wrote down the tune they heared'
and many examples of leaders who were strategic masters - yet epileptical , till the point of Posession - Nero, Ceasar, the Führer, etc

...so i think we can conclude, that this Awareness shows certain Inventions in certain Timeperiods
but strangely, those *always* carry the seed of Destruction within them already ,
- not because of the Inventions themselves... but cause of man's nature
so...makes you wonder whý that Awareness gives these Ideas, anyway..... right ?

when we call a certain person 'a genius',
in fact what we are adressing, is the dimensional entity connécted to that person [ the Genius ]

best wish,

reply to post by Phage


Well Phage as you are pro-left-wing and a liberal I'm not surprised you launch this veiled attack on the 20th century hero.

Alas with the spirit of this age such folks like yourself seize on the tiny aspects common to the aspect of his times and extrapolate it to your times.

Originally posted by WatchRider
reply to post by Phage

 

Well Phage as you are pro-left-wing and a liberal I'm not surprised you launch this veiled attack on the 20th century hero.

forgive my ignorance, i'm not american.. what is a pro-left-wing liberal?

Alas with the spirit of this age such folks like yourself seize on the tiny aspects common to the aspect of his times and extrapolate it to your times.

he didn't actually do this as i see it, all he simply asked is, in light of tesla's personal views and perspective, is his reputation amoung some as a "hero" justified?

reply to post by WatchRider

Well Phage as you are pro-left-wing and a liberal

Nope.

the 20th century hero.

Hero to some. Inventor to others.

Alas with the spirit of this age such folks like yourself seize on the tiny aspects common to the aspect of his times and extrapolate it to your times.

Yes. The "product of his times" aspect. A good way to ease the burden of personal responsibility and actually quite a liberal point of view. Poor fellow, he didn't know better. He was a victim of society.

I must be a self hating Jew if I drive a Volkswagon.....

reply to post by zazzafrazz

Funny. You don't look Jewish.

reply to post by Phage


Funny.