Sniper triangulation system.

The US army is currently developing a system which can accurately pinpoint a sniper by analysing the way the sound bounces off various buildings which can be used in a city like fallujah. At the moment it takes aprx 1 hour to sift through the data and triangulate the position however the army confidently predicts that it will eventually be done instantly and be miniaturised for front line troops it also incorporate GPS mapping of the earth so it can work anywhere.

A sniper can take upto 2 hours and more to locate a target.
Once the round is fired, they are gone. they dont stay around for an hour to let the enemy locate them.

This sounds total rubbish you have posted. How about some links to back up your theory?

My son is a sniper, so i do know what i am talking about.

[edit on 10-11-2004 by Bikereddie]

[edit on 11-11-2004 by Bikereddie]

Originally posted by Bikereddie
A sniper can take upto 2 hours and more to locate a target.
Once the round is fired, they are gone. they dont stay around for an hour to let the enemy locate them.

Really bad ones do, and there aren't many really good ones in these insurgent groups we're fighting. Besides, these guys are never going to be able to set up for two hours for a shot. You're describing our snipers. Yeah, these guys might have been taught by the Mujahadeen, but I bet most of them are kids. Too young to have fought in the Soviet/Afghani war. I just think you're overestimating their training and discipline.

This sounds total rubbish you have posted. How about some links to back up your theory?

Triangulating sound waves isn't a new concept, it just hasn't been possible. I'm not surprised it is now. Finding a sniper from the sound waves boucing off objects is no different than pinpointing the location of an enemy arty position from their radio transmissions. I was an RTO (not a RaTelO), I know.

I'll look for something on triangulating sound, maybe. UFO should back it up himself, he started it.

My son is a sniper, as was i, so i do know what i am talking about.

Real live snipers?!!! Oooh tell me more!

No. Thanks for your service. I did some time myself.


[edit on 10-11-2004 by DeltaChaos]

Originally posted by Bikereddie
A sniper can take upto 2 hours and more to locate a target.
Once the round is fired, they are gone. they dont stay around for an hour to let the enemy locate them.

Actually two days is not out of the question, depending on environment, tactical factors, and target value. Once a target is engaged, several factors will determine the expedience of egress, such as more than one high value target, the ability of the target to engage the sniper�s position, and for a sniper providing retreating cover� The intent of egress at all. A sniper approaching a target is at the advantage, the target can only think there could be a sniper; a sniper extracting himself from an area where he has engaged a target is at a distinct disadvantage, they now know there is a sniper (and are typically motivated). A quickly retreating sniper presents the easiest target (and a sure fire way to take one in the back), therefore that technique is eschewed.

This sounds total rubbish you have posted. How about some links to back up your theory?

Hardly rubbish at all, almost primitive in my estimation (think in terms of counter artillery systems, it�s just a matter of scale), but here�s some links.

www.gpsworld.com...

www.shotspotter.com...

My son is a sniper, as was i, so i do know what i am talking about.

Before you ask, I wasn�t a sniper, but I belonged to a squad that was pretty good at ferreting them out, and killing them.

Snake In The Grass Monkeys, not just for biting ankles anymore�

Once a sniper has fired, he is gone. He is'nt staying around to let the enemy locate him.

The snipers criteria depends on stealth & the enemy not knowing he is there.

You talk of "kids" as snipers, they are not snipers in the true sense of the word, they are just basic cannon fodder, but who do a job in taking out the enemy.
These "kids" will be told that it is in a just cause and they will be remembered as martyrs, when in truth, noone will give a toss about them.

The art of being a sniper takes years to learn, not weeks, as some of these "kids" have had.

It is a science, not an art!

I'm saying that most 'snipers' in environments like Falluja, are just people taking pot shots from a third story window or something. People who take pot shots from windows might not be very tactically proficient and hang around and take a few more shot. That would be plenty of time to triangulate the sound and mass fires on say, the top north corner of a building. Or have an Abrams just blow that corner of it away. That's what I'd do.

Originally posted by DeltaChaos
I'm saying that most 'snipers' in environments like Falluja, are just people taking pot shots from a third story window or something. People who take pot shots from windows might not be very tactically proficient and hang around and take a few more shot. That would be plenty of time to triangulate the sound and mass fires on say, the top north corner of a building. Or have an Abrams just blow that corner of it away. That's what I'd do.

I know what is happening over there, but a sniper in the true sense of the word would not give his posistion away.

The fact that these so called snipers are staying put and being taken out is proof that they are not snipers.

The word "sniper" conjours up in most peoples minds a gunman who takes pot shots at the enemy, This is true in a sense, but what is happening in Iraq is just "pot shots". No real training has gone into it.
Its just a terminology to describe a person who is hidden and who takes shots without any thought as to what he is actually doing.


As i said before, no sniper would stay in posistion once the round has been fired. This would be tantamount to suicide.

Hope this helps...

Originally posted by Bikereddie
Hope this helps...

Yep. We are definitely on the same page. Good to hear.

As far as I'm concerned, we set the standard for sniper, and if anyone fails to meet that standard, they are indeed not a sniper.

Or advanced marksman. I think that's what they're required to call themselves this month.

So at any rate, since we agree that these Abduls and Achmeds standing in windows are not snipers, we can agree that triangulating sound to fix and destroy these enemies is feasible.

[edit on 10-11-2004 by DeltaChaos]

Triangulating a snipers gunfire is feasable, but not really worth the effort if the sniper is a "sniper".

Triangulating the "snipers" of the Iraq'i insurgent would be no problem, because they would stay put, therefore making an easy target for the opposition to take them out.

Phewwwwwwwww, glad we got to the bottom of that..

good posting mate much appreciated

Originally posted by Bikereddie
I know what is happening over there, but a sniper in the true sense of the word would not give his posistion away.

The fact that these so called snipers are staying put and being taken out is proof that they are not snipers.

As i said before, no sniper would stay in posistion once the round has been fired. This would be tantamount to suicide.

I guess we have a different standard of what a sniper is in the U.S. I was in the military in the 80's and trained against Marine Scout/Snipers; we were expecting to take on the varsity squad (the Soviets, who were perennial sniper advocates), tactics and environments ranged the entire gamut, urban to open country, low intensity third world, to a free for all in Europe, no single doctrine can be applied or followed, nor can every eventuality be expected.

One more time for emphasis
The fact that these so called snipers are staying put and being taken out is proof that they are not snipers.

Two REAL snipers that stayed put.

Proof Monkeys, not just for Medal Of Honor Recipients anymore�

It depends on the sitution. MOST of the time its shoot and scoot but some times you stay for a few more shots. Its seldom a good idea to stay though.

[edit on 10-11-2004 by Amuk]

Two very brave men Mirthful Me
I take my hat to them.

The situation they were in was obvious to the "snipers" a one way trip. Thats what makes these two men so brave.

I cant say anything else.

Reminds me of the movie Predator.

Can take the shot and never give away their position. I can't see getting an accurate reading on someone via sound when the shot is fired from 1200 yards away or so. It might be possible but not highly likely. For those of you interested check out this web link:

www.snipercentral.com...

My Personal favorite:

www.snipercentral.com...

Originally posted by Bikereddie
This sounds total rubbish you have posted. How about some links to back up your theory?

My son is a sniper, as was i, so i do know what i am talking about.

[edit on 10-11-2004 by Bikereddie]

My son was a sniper, as was i ??? ... He is the one that told you it was taking an hour to locate a sniper ... and NO ... a sniper in Falujua .. .or whatever ... is not going to shoot and run he is going to shoot ans stay really still ... B/C we are ATTACKING you idiot !!! not running ... OMG ... You are a sniper you should know .. that snipers are not the most mobile unit in the world. ANYWAYS ... yeah you used to be one so you would knwo huh .. deuce . I'm out ... this is rediculous ..

I would doubt an instant triangulation would be possible, especially in a miniaturized format. It may be able to pinpoint the DIRECTION that the sound came from, but not an EXACT location for sure. Then again it may be able to, calculating sound wave dropoff and distance, plus any fool with good eyesight could see possible locations as well.

Shhhhh.. Don't tell them that common sense is thier number key weapon .. I think that some of these people have lost thier minds.

Here's an Aussie who is working hard to find the source of projectiles by their sound signature:

Locating far-field impulsive sound sources in air by triangulation.

Ferguson BG, Criswick LG, Lo KW.

Defence Science and Technology Organisation, Pyrmont, NSW, Australia.

The firing of a gun generates an acoustic impulse that propagates radially outwards from the source. Acoustic gun-ranging systems estimate the source position by measuring the relative time of arrival of the impulse at a number of spatially distributed acoustic sensors. The sound-ranging problem is revisited here using improved time-delay estimation methods to refine the source position estimates. The time difference for the acoustic wavefront to arrive at two spatially separated sensors is estimated by cross correlating the digitized outputs of the sensors. The time-delay estimate is used to calculate the source bearing, and the source position is cross fixed by triangulation using the bearings from two widely separated receiving nodes. The variability in the bearing and position estimates is quantified by processing acoustic sensor data recorded during field experiments for a variety of impulsive sound sources: artillery guns, mortars, and grenades. Imperfect knowledge of the effective speed of sound travel results in bias errors in the source bearing estimates, which are found to depend on the orientation of the sensor pair axis with respect to the source direction. Combining the time-delay estimates from two orthogonal pairs of sensors reduces these bias errors.

reply to post by ufo3


Look up RedOwl to learn more about the triangulation device that can pinpoint a sniper.

It would be interesting if the military starting using the Spot Shotter system overseas. Shot Spotter

This has been installed in several cities in the US and I think something like it is being used in Europe also. Thia chould pinpoint snipers much quicker than any other technology I know of.