A Honest Talk About The Race Issue

This clip is why I try to think for myself. Fall back, collect data, analyze and think critically about what the data says. I've read quite a few books by Micheal Dyson, so my viewpoint isn't skewed one way or the other. I'm not Republican nor Democrat, even though I agree with a lot of the points made by Republicans. My views have changed over the years the more i read, the more I learn.

Now, Bill O'Reilly has some valid points. But what's really burns my bacon is the fact that Dyson never even bothered to answer the questions nor expand on the talking points. Which is what spurred this post. So I'll do what he failed to do.

I'm going to break it down till it can no longer be broken.

Work with the good people to stop the bad people

Yes! I'm all for that. But, the whole damn system is filled with bad people. We need to find the good people. Not the bad people, the type of people, like Sharpton and Dyson that do not address the facts but instead go on about platitudes. We know that black folks have been enslaved! What's stopping black folks today from pooling their money together and speaking with their wallets.

If you believe the system is against you then don't rely on that very same damn system to lift you out because it won't! Government welfare programs have done dick to help the poor black folks stuck in poverty. It doesn't work, plain and simple. It just keeps you broke and in the same situation. You survive on welfare nothing more nothing less.

You can't legislate good parenting or responsible entertainment

I've said this before and i'm going to say it again. One of the ongoing themes within the black community is that you have kids having kids. Very few realize that your kid will emulate your own actions, down to your speech and attitudes, morals and values.

For the responsible entertainment I will tell Bill to hold up and slow down son. Back the truck up. Older Black folks have been barking up that tree for a long time, a long time. They vehemently objected the subjection of black women and images that been portrayed with the prevalent "Gang culture". Look at how the black women at Spelman College treated Nelly when he came through with his cancer drive. The complaints of the older black folks fell on dear ears as all said, this is how we are making it out the hood. Ironic as Malcolm X famously said, the chickens have come home to roost.

This is still an issue being discussed. Quite simply, that "Gang culture" sells more than say, Immortal Technique. Rap nowadays is merely a minstrel show as your seeing what the corporations want you to see, that's my opinion from someone that has followed that form of music since it's inception. The art has been taken out and replaced with paycheck.

You can fight against it with discipline, a firm message and little tolerance for excuses

What happened to discipline and little tolerance for excuses! When black kids in cities like Chicago target white people simply because of their skin color it's a hate crime. When black people target anyone simply because of the color of their skin, it's racism (Like that unfortunate trucker that hit beat up during the Rodney King riots). You, we, us, we have to be better than that. No matter what you say, your actions speak louder than words. Sinking down to the level of your "oppressors" isn't constructive it only shows that you are just as debase as they supposedly are.

What did our predecessors do? They marched, banded together. There is nothing stopping mega successful black people, Like Oprah, Will Smith, or even the multimillion dollar athletes from going to the hood and creating a bank so business and business ventures can be created by those in the impoverished conditions. Take notes from Magic Johnson!

Say what you want about Bill Cosby but he actually helped, which is why is so pissed off! I'm old enough to remember watching his TV show when I was kid and I loved it (I want his pen), that and LaVar Burton on the Reading Rainbow, that's what I got down on. So, what's stopping the parents of today from instilling the same values? My parents made it a point to be and stay involved in my upbringing. Two of their favorite lines "I'm not your friend out in the street" and "I'm your mother/father, not your best friend" How about that, parenting! I believe that's the difference. What kind of values are being instilled in those poor communities with these children?

It is time for the African American leadership, including the president to stop the nonsense... Lead the way out of this nonsense.

Nah, i disagree with that one. Black folks don't have a designated leader, nor do we need one. Don't let the talking heads on CNN and MSNBC fool you. Besides, Obama is for black people as much as the previous presidents. He'll pander to get that vote, like with the Obama phone.

Black people need to realize something and i'll be as blunt as possible. Just like with segregation, it's all about the money and your vote, power. Your money, which is channeled into the pockets of those who really don't care about you (corporations) and your vote, which is used to keep those who really don't care about you in power. The problem is poverty and all the ills it brings.

As to what created the high rate of poverty within the black community I'll leave that open.

After pouring over the statistics a stark reality hit me. There is nothing wrong with black community. Their is a black subculture just like there is a white subculture. And it's that black subculture that is being used to define black people by both black and white people. Don't fall for the brainwash that the black community is teetering on the brink of destruction! The truth is is that massive progress has been made but no one wants to admit that. The high rate of violence within the black community is as much as a problem as young white juveniles drunk driving, meaning it's only an issue when someone makes it an issue.

So, whats to be done? I'll let Fredrick Douglass close it out

In regard to the colored people, there is always more that is benevolent, I perceive, than just, manifested towards us. What I ask for the negro is not benevolence, not pity, not sympathy, but simply justice. The American people have always been anxious to know what they shall do with us... I have had but one answer from the beginning. Do nothing with us! Your doing with us has already played the mischief with us. Do nothing with us! If the apples will not remain on the tree of their own strength, if they are worm-eaten at the core, if they are early ripe and disposed to fall, let them fall! ... And if the negro cannot stand on his own legs, let him fall also. All I ask is, give him a chance to stand on his own legs! Let him alone! If you see him on his way to school, let him alone, don't disturb him! If you see him going to the dinner table at a hotel, let him go! If you see him going to the ballot box, let him alone, don't disturb him! If you see him going into a work-shop, just let him alone, — your interference is doing him positive injury.

--"What the Black Man Wants" — speech in Boston, Massachusetts (26 January 1865)

Each one of your comments appears to agree with O'reilly's points, which it appeared that you were initially wanting to, as you said, "do what Tyson did not do", which I assume was to rebut his points; and again, you actually supported them.

When O'Reilly stated that the African American leadership needs to stop pandering, he wasn't suggesting that all blacks look to this leadership; he referred to the ones that do.

Lastly, he WAS only talking about a subculture with the black community, and not the black community as a whole. This is something I learned a little bit ago, about how people quickly want to refute arguments because they want to suggest that it's not the group; well, in intellectual discourse, this is already presumed. There is no way that he was referring to the WHOLE community because he does not know the whole community.

Dyson could not refute Oreilly because-

he can not refute it. The truth hurts.

IMO, everything comes down to taking personal responsibility. Race is irrelevant in that regard; Ive seen and known all races who wont take personal responsibility for their own actions, and whether they are white or black, theyre all the same; playing the victims, its never their fault, theres always an excuse, etc.

The ones who rise above that are all the same too; they are mature adults, most of them who have achieved many things they set out to do. They are all accomplished in their own ways, especially if they had taken it to heart to be responsible for themselves many years ago, and stuck with it.

This isnt saying that there are not adverse factors that these people who decide to take personal responsibility will need to deal with, and some might need to deal with more than others; but it ALL starts with saying to oneself "I am going to take control of my own life and no longer play the victim to circumstances / race / family / etc".

Yeah, every race is going to have different challenges, sure. Every person within a race is going to have different challenges. But if the individual of any race wants to excel, the very first thing they have to do is start taking personal responsibility, not for their circumstances in life, or their families, or any other aspect of their life they had no control over, not for any of those, but take responsibility for their own future, and their own destiny.

Unless you are locked up in a death camp, you DO have options, and CAN change your future.

That applies universally to all people.

A positive change in the society of any people takes a change in the individual hearts of those people to accomplish. Society is a reflection of the mean average of the people that compose it. If a society is messed up, its because its people were that way first. Society cannot be what its people are not.

Gandhi said "be the change you want to see in the world", and it truly is that simple.

No matter how hard you try, you will NEVER change another person. Only they can change themselves, and it all begins with taking personal responsibility for ones own life, and ones own future and destiny.

Originally posted by CaticusMaximus

Yeah, every race is going to have different challenges, sure.

That is the prefect fact to help prove a relevant point. People within one race are going to have different challenges than another race. But until the time comes when one race can solve it's own issues, which it's perfectly clear is not the case, does it make sense to believe that if you have different races intermingling with each other, that will solve the problems within each individual race? Of course not.

People need to wake up and realize that integration doesn't work as long as you have all these different races with their own unique issues that they themselves can't solve. All integration is going to do is put a whole bunch of screwed up people together to make a culture that's.......well........unproductive because they're spending most of their waking hours trying to figure out other peoples' problems. Other people that they will never fully relate to because of the uniqueness that comes with different cultures and races.

Take any country in the world, any one at all, that doesn't have an immigration history that America has had, a country that has always kept to their own, and see if they have even half of the social and criminal issues that America does. That country doesn't exist and everyone knows why, but it's too politically incorrect to actually state the fact, identify the problem and actually solve it. If that's even possible. Instead, you have all these talking heads with their rose colored glasses on telling us how we can all come together to create a modern utopia, and a brain dead society that bobs it's collective head in agreement because it SOUNDS nice.

Sorry, but it aint happening until you separate the different people with their different problems, and let them separate their own wheat from the chaff. Yes, segregate people until the different cultures and races have their negative issues solved to the point where the positives FAR outweigh the negatives

I mean really, how can anyone realistically expect negative people from different cultures to have a positive and productive influence on each other? If we couldn't do it the previous 170 years, you'd have to be delusional to think we can do it now when we're still using the same methods as we always have. As they say in certain circles, one definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results.

Until people actually grow a pair and take care of things the way they need to, they can b*tch all they want. It's starting to fall on more deaf ears then they realize.

Thanks for the feedback.

Keep it coming. Hrm, yankee doodle dandy

OP, when you stated that you disagreed with OReilly about being around the good people and getting away from the bad people, because you felt that the entire system was full of bad people, I was confused:

What system are you talking about?

Most people would interpret OReilly's comment to mean that he encouraged people (blacks that are on the downward plight in the community) to surround themselves with positive, productive citizens, and to remove them from the negative crowd who were unproductive, violent, etc.

Race should NOT be an issue, no matter what colour you or I am we are all human....

reply to post by cenpuppie

honest talk? how about how awful this female host is? she has this "HOW DARE WHITES NOT FEEL THE SAME" attitude about race with this case.