Saudi Activist Receives 7-year Sentence, 600 lashes for Insulting Islam

Originally posted by MrInquisitive
and the US government supports this theocratic monarchy.

Bush43 and Obama both are huge fans of Saudi Arabia. Oil and money and power make them turn a blind eye to the human rights abuses in Saudi Arabia as well as the fact that the Saudi royals pay shake down money to the Wahabbi nutters.

The Islamophobes like to go on and on about radical Islam and cite Iran as the big Islamic boogeyman, when in fact it is Saudi Arabia that is the big problem.

Iran ... Saudi Arabia ... both give people reason to distrust them.
Both have Islam as their rule of law.
Secular rule of law is the only real safe law to have. IMHO

Originally posted by SuperFrog
This has nothing to to with faith, religion, this is simple mater of control of mind of population for ruling family to stay on power.

IMHO its both. The Saudi royals in power need something to keep the people in line ... and Islam is easy to use because of the violence inherent in it. (much the same as Christianity was easy to use with the old Christian empires ... lots of violence in the Old Testament to pull from). So .. I think it's both.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by SuperFrog
This has nothing to to with faith, religion, this is simple mater of control of mind of population for ruling family to stay on power.

IMHO its both. The Saudi royals in power need something to keep the people in line ... and Islam is easy to use because of the violence inherent in it. (much the same as Christianity was easy to use with the old Christian empires ... lots of violence in the Old Testament to pull from). So .. I think it's both.

Violence is not inherent in Islam OR in Christianity, but you're right, it is very much so in the old testament.

Faith in the Petro Dollar is the religion of the dominant empire and violence is the duty of believers. Infidels are those who reject the Petro Dollar as holy and supreme.

Originally posted by frazzleViolence is not inherent in Islam OR in Christianity, but you're right, it is very much so in the old testament.

Faith in the Petro Dollar is the religion of the dominant empire and violence is the duty of believers. Infidels are those who reject the Petro Dollar as holy and supreme.

I never read completely either one, except some parts (mostly out of interest and because I did have religion class back in college) but from what I know, actually both call for violence, like in case of adultery. In west this has not been practiced in while (not really, there are some cases...) but in Islam world it is still practice. I remember seeing video here of public execution in if I remember correctly in Afghanistan or Pakistan.

RIchard Dawkins and late Hitchens used to talk a lot about it.

This is just another reason why religions should be abolished...

Originally posted by SuperFrog

Originally posted by frazzleViolence is not inherent in Islam OR in Christianity, but you're right, it is very much so in the old testament.

Faith in the Petro Dollar is the religion of the dominant empire and violence is the duty of believers. Infidels are those who reject the Petro Dollar as holy and supreme.

I never read completely either one, except some parts (mostly out of interest and because I did have religion class back in college) but from what I know, actually both call for violence, like in case of adultery. In west this has not been practiced in while (not really, there are some cases...) but in Islam world it is still practice. I remember seeing video here of public execution in if I remember correctly in Afghanistan or Pakistan.

RIchard Dawkins and late Hitchens used to talk a lot about it.

This is just another reason why religions should be abolished...

You're right, I wasn't specific enough. I should have said that violence is not inherent in the teachings of Moses, Jesus or Mohammad. It was later politically motivated theologians who added all the "or elses". Moses said not to commit adultery, etc. etc. As far as I remember the big ten didn't say if you went ahead and broke the rules you should be stoned to death, all that came later. Same with Christ's teachings and Mohammad's.

You could even say that about the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Nothing is protected from those with political motives, not even in the short term.

reply to post by frazzle

As far as I remember the big ten didn't say if you went ahead and broke the rules you should be stoned to death, all that came later. Same with Christ's teachings and Mohammad's.

As far as I've been able to determine, after much questioning, researching, conversation, debate, and study - Muhammed DID promote violence. And since Sharia Law ABSOLUTELY promotes extreme violence, how can you say that Muhammed was a pacifist?

He was more like Paul than he was like Jesus, the way I see it. And neither of them was needed to "expand" on Jesus' teachings. Jesus' teachings are fine without later 'prophets' or 'priests' adding to, subtracting from, abrogating earlier versions with "updates."

And I find it notable that many Muslims will say "No Muslim would EVER agree to 'updating' the Koran." But, Mohammed himself "updated" his own musings as he grew older and more worldly. I believe there is a huge link of culture with Islam - and have discerned that SOME "Muslim" cultures are far more bloody and backward than others. Extracting religion from culture would help, if it was done universally.

The U.S. is NOT a "Christian" nation - although many of its loudest, most obnoxious citizens and politicans are self-proclaimed "followers of Christ. It is a secular nation, which is WHY Muslims here are treated the same as everyone else. If ALL Muslim nations would do the same, many problems would disappear.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by frazzle

 

As far as I remember the big ten didn't say if you went ahead and broke the rules you should be stoned to death, all that came later. Same with Christ's teachings and Mohammad's.

As far as I've been able to determine, after much questioning, researching, conversation, debate, and study - Muhammed DID promote violence. And since Sharia Law ABSOLUTELY promotes extreme violence, how can you say that Muhammed was a pacifist?

He was more like Paul than he was like Jesus, the way I see it. And neither of them was needed to "expand" on Jesus' teachings. Jesus' teachings are fine without later 'prophets' or 'priests' adding to, subtracting from, abrogating earlier versions with "updates."

And I find it notable that many Muslims will say "No Muslim would EVER agree to 'updating' the Koran." But, Mohammed himself "updated" his own musings as he grew older and more worldly. I believe there is a huge link of culture with Islam - and have discerned that SOME "Muslim" cultures are far more bloody and backward than others. Extracting religion from culture would help, if it was done universally.

The U.S. is NOT a "Christian" nation - although many of its loudest, most obnoxious citizens and politicans are self-proclaimed "followers of Christ. It is a secular nation, which is WHY Muslims here are treated the same as everyone else. If ALL Muslim nations would do the same, many problems would disappear.

Jesus never taught it was okay to burn witches at the stake. It was a perversion.

As for Shariah law ....

ORIGINS AND NATURE. The historical origin of the shariah lies in the revelation that Muslims believe was given to the prophet Muhammad by God through the vehicle of the archangel Gabriel in the last decades before the Prophet’s death in 632 CE. This divine revelation was later recorded in a text known as the Qur'an. Although only a small portion of the Qur'an concerns strictly legal questions, it sets forth a number of general principles regarding how Muslims are to conduct themselves. The Qur'an is replete with commands to believers to abide by God’s limits, to obey God and his Prophet, and to judge according to what God has laid down. It contains many references to God’s laws and commands. The prevailing view among Muslims is that the Qur'an laid the underpinnings for a distinctively Islamic legal order and one that all Muslims are bound to follow as a token of their submission (isla¯m in Arabic) to the will of God.

From this kernel the shariah grew into a vast corpus of law. One of the great, challenging issues of Islamic intellectual history has been that of defining the relationship between the text of divine revelation and subsequent legal development, an effort that has entailed the working out of a theory of resources to provide an Islamic theoretical basis for resolving legal problems not explicitly addressed in the Qur'an.

www.islamawareness.net...

Key phrase "from this kernel".

ETA: Iran has the largest population of Jews outside Israel. Despite bribes they have refused to move to Israel.

Which makes this fella all the braver and more heroic in my eyes.

Maybe, but he could have accomplished more had he LEFT the country first.....

For the record, I lived outside Riyadh when I was there (in a defense contractor compound). While we were able to go to one beheading (forget the Arabic name for it, there were actually other legal barbarisms there that day), non-muslims were limited as to where they could assemble. So you couldn't really see much. I imagine now, they have monitors up, but didn't back in the 80's when I was a kid.

Most Saudis are actually pretty nice people. They are hospitable, and generally a happy people...but they do LIVE their religion, and you have to understand that when over there. Religion isn't just a PART of their life over there, it is the PURPOSE of it. Islam basically means submit to God.

reply to post by frazzle


You can say that violence isn't inherent in Islam all you want but the fact is that this peaceful (and very brave) man is getting 600 lashes and 7 hears in jail (if he survives the lashes) in the name of Islam and it's sanctioned by a government that is run by Islam.

Originally posted by Gazrok
Maybe, but he could have accomplished more had he LEFT the country first.....

True. And the world would be better off with more people like him ... and less backwards hateful people like those who are giving him 600 lashes!

Originally posted by wildtimes
The U.S. is NOT a "Christian" nation - although many of its loudest, most obnoxious citizens and politicans are self-proclaimed "followers of Christ. It is a secular nation, which is WHY Muslims here are treated the same as everyone else. If ALL Muslim nations would do the same, many problems would disappear.

Man .. I SO AGREE WITH YOU!

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by frazzle

 

You can say that violence isn't inherent in Islam all you want but the fact is that this peaceful (and very brave) man is getting 600 lashes and 7 hears in jail (if he survives the lashes) in the name of Islam and it's sanctioned by a government that is run by Islam.

Saudi Arabia is ruled by a perversion of Islam. The royal family wouldn't last a week without US backing. Well okay, maybe it would take a month. Bur brave young man like this one would be rousting the perverts faster than you can whistle dixie. But US citizens stand silent by while the US government protects perverts all over the world who maim and mangle humanity, so it probably won't happen any time soon.

I like the lashes.....Now if we could implement that in the USA as a punishment for anyone who violates the constitution or the bill of rights.....

Saudia Arabia may have acted slightly over the top, however action is still needed. The country stand firm as an Islamic State (even though the country's leadership respondes to Israel/America's every whim). But he has no right to say such a statement on public record in Saudi Arabia, because he is offending most of the public. Please keep in mind that the judicial system in this country is not like America's System so please don't compare. I feel that he should have been punished for his words, but maybe not to this extent.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by frazzle

 

You can say that violence isn't inherent in Islam all you want but the fact is that this peaceful (and very brave) man is getting 600 lashes and 7 hears in jail (if he survives the lashes) in the name of Islam and it's sanctioned by a government that is run by Islam.

Yeah...Please Don't talk about Islam if you have NO IDEA what you're talking about. thanks.

This is so sad, hope anonymous step in an do something, bloody muslims, wipe em out I say if they are not prepared to evolve into the human race

I know some muslims and they are good people, i just hate the silly barbaric laws they have in the middle east. All they need to do is show compassion to there people, get rid of the westerners and maybe they can have the power and respect that Persia once had.

Funny how the U.S is supposedly interested in bringing freedom and democracy to the middle east but turns a blind eye to the atrocities perpetrated in Saudi Arabia on an almost daily basis. I guess it helps your cause with U.S foreign policy makers when you are home to some of the richest families in the world and rule over the largest oil reserves on the planet with an iron fist.

Originally posted by NeoMuslim
Saudia Arabia may have acted slightly over the top, however action is still needed. The country stand firm as an Islamic State (even though the country's leadership respondes to Israel/America's every whim). But he has no right to say such a statement on public record in Saudi Arabia, because he is offending most of the public. Please keep in mind that the judicial system in this country is not like America's System so please don't compare. I feel that he should have been punished for his words, but maybe not to this extent.

So you don't believe in the right to free speech either? You actually admit that you believe that a man should be brutally punished for expressing an opinion(your last sentence) that differs from the mainstream? Get back in your cave.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Gazrok
Actually went to a beheading once. Couldn't see much though. I just saw the glint off the sword (yes, they used a big curved sword, kind of like the ones on their flag....)

YIKES. That kind of brings it home, doesn't it? Saudi Arabia is a backwards place.
And very, very dangerous. Which makes this fella all the braver and more heroic in my eyes.

I don't by any shape or means agree with the punishment this person is receiving, although it could be argued that he should have known he was not doing himself any favours, but that isn't the point I wanted to make -

The death penalty is the death penalty. Sharp sword against the neck you would hope would be a swift end. Many western countries have and practice the death penalty which they carry out by other means - does that make them less backwards?