Toronto Police Kill 18 Year Old Alone On Streetcar. Caught on Video. I Am Speechless.

Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni

Originally posted by Hefficide

I counted nine shots, in two clusters. It is glaringly obvious that the first cluster ( three shots ) was more than enough to deal with a knife wielding man who did not even appear to be attacking or trying to attack. The next six shots, I can only assume, were to make sure that he never got back up. I cannot imagine him being a threat after already being shot three times and put down.

IE the last six shots were murder. Plain and simple.

Do I pull knives inside public places and scare the living crap out of everyone and force everyone out of public places under knife threat? No.

Quit forgiving criminals, blatant threats to society and people that dont contribute with anything but with fear and insecurity towards law abiding innocent citizens.

That being said... I seriously doubt much was lost besides 8 extra bullets since 1 well placed should have done its job.

There is something VERY wrong with you, and I'm not kidding.

He was not a danger to anyone but himself, and he obviously had emotional problems. He didn't harm anyone, and he was ALONE when they murdered him in cold blood.

So, what was the reason for them all shooting him like that? There was no one else there, there was no one else at risk. Did they kill him to prevent him from killing himself?!

You cannot seriously tell me that you think that's right, if you think it's right, you should go and seek some form of counseling, because as I said there is something very wrong with you.

These "officers" (and I really should be calling them murderers) should be in cells right now, as a danger to the public. All of them need to be locked up and off the street where they can't harm anyone else.

I hope this is followed, and I hope that all those officers face murder charges. If they don't, I can imagine there is going to be rioting in the streets - AND RIGHTLY SO!

It's time people started standing up against these out of control police departments.

Unless these officers face prison, I would expect the people to be enraged, and they have every right to be.

reply to post by minkmouse


When I watch an Alpine Skier fall down, I don't offer advice or a critique of what he did wrong. 1. I don't ski. 2. I've never been to the Alps. I think more people should adhere to this when posting.

reply to post by IamAbeliever


But according to you, that's the only type of person that should be a cop. You can be the first and set the standard. Be the change, show the world.

reply to post by Carreau


The I guess there just wouldn't be a whole lot of posts in this forum then would there?

ETA: Oh and I'm sorry, I didn't get any memos stating your official position as a forum Quarterback!

Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni

Originally posted by Hefficide

I counted nine shots, in two clusters. It is glaringly obvious that the first cluster ( three shots ) was more than enough to deal with a knife wielding man who did not even appear to be attacking or trying to attack. The next six shots, I can only assume, were to make sure that he never got back up. I cannot imagine him being a threat after already being shot three times and put down.

IE the last six shots were murder. Plain and simple.

Do I pull knives inside public places and scare the living crap out of everyone and force everyone out of public places under knife threat? No.

Quit forgiving criminals, blatant threats to society and people that dont contribute with anything but with fear and insecurity towards law abiding innocent citizens.

That being said... I seriously doubt much was lost besides 8 extra bullets since 1 well placed should have done its job.

I think your answer to the thread was quite wrong,. The standard procedure for a 'law enforcement officer' or a police officer is to incapacitate not execute as they are not judge and jury but supposed to be paragons of the law (Sadly they very rarely are and indeed are simply flawed human being's like the rest of us), I happen to agree with the moderator whom was the first post that this was a case of murder by unlawful execution.
I am in England but the laws of Canada are originally based on our own.
Question do you actually know what a police officer is,.
Mr peel founded them as Men of the City or Polis man, they are civilian's not army and are supposed to be citizens whom uphold the law, to empower them they were given the same powers as a court bailiff and then over time those powers were extended, it is there duty to detain (Arrest) a suspect and hand him over to a duly appointed representative of the court's for trial.
Now I think that broadly speaking when all the other country's of the world emulated Mr peels work they took the same stance, a militia is not police so they are military, AKA state troopers and Mounties but they are there fore at time of peace (not martial law) answerable to the civil authority's.
A police officer is given trust on behalf of society and when they breech that trust they should be held more not less accountable and should face more stringent justice.

Sadly the same think happened to John Charles DeMenes in London, because the surveillance officer took a toilette break and panicked when he say him leave the apartments thinking because he was dark skinned he was a suspect, It was a military style execution on that occasion, multiple shots to make certain they took the brain stem out as they thought his ruck sack may be a bomb.
This young man could easily have been incapacitated with the Taser alone and if that failed shot to the legs and or should/arm.

Originally posted by Beartracker16
Not going to make a judgement as to whether the shooting was justified ,but...
9 shots? how many actually hit the victim?
I question the shooters marksmanship.

Officer will continue to shoot until the suspect stops moving as they don't know if the person is hopped-up on drugs and adrenaline. You also have multiple officers possibly shooting at the same time. One officers round hits, it causes the body to twitch, the other officer thinks he is still moving and fires again.

Originally posted by Carreau
I'm sorry but if someone pointing a gun at you (cop or not) and is yelling drop the knife and said knife holder doesn't drop the knife, this outcome is a foregone conclusion.

And if he's deaf? What if he's experienced a mental breakdown? What if he's on something?

There are far too many idiots claiming it's perfectly okay to murder someone, END THEIR LIFE, because of nothing more than INCONVENIENCE, or a suspected threat.

Do you not know what a COURT is for? Why is it becoming the norm for police to murder people in the street, without any judge actually deeming them guilty of any crime? Why do some think it's acceptable to end someones life on a suspicion or assumption?

I am really worried about this. This should be a unanimous conclusion, and the fact that there are any individuals out there who think police have a right to murder people is astounding to me! Is it because these people have no sense of the value of a Human life? Do these people think the world is f'ing computer game?

His life has been ended because three thug cops on a power trip used no common sense and no restraint. Those officers need to be imprisoned immediately and charged with murder.

Wow, that is a blatant murder,.
what ever happened to shooting someone in the leg or arm to slow em down.
the kid wasnt even doing anything except holding a little knife?

Originally posted by Carreau
reply to post by sylent6

 

If you took the time to read the news link is states that none of the officers had a taser. It wasn't until after the shooting started that an officer with a taser arrived on scene.

Sigh..I never said the officer involved shooting had a taser and yes the back-up officer did at the last minute. You need to go back and read what I wrote and stop assuming what I didn't say.

Every (honorable) peace officer should have a taser with them.

There are many levels of force for an officer has to use in different situations. You have: command presence, verbal, pepper spray, baton, taser and your firearm. In this situation you have man with a knife who refuse to cooperate, the officer gave him several verbal commands to drop his weapon and he refuse so what's next..

the officers had waited another minute for the officer with the Taser to arrive.

Huh, say what?? Why would it take a minute to find a police officer with a taser to asset the situation when you have two officer already at the scene.

In the officers mind, they know he has a knife but what else could he be concealing? Clearly the officer was in tunnel vision, he was afraid for his safety, blood pressure is pumping and he rush to make a judgment call.

From a peace officers stand point, there is a dozen of ways to look at this situation. Every police agency is different and even though law enforcement agencies in Canada is very similar here in the U.S., that country's laws and their POST certifications are different. What I do like about Canada's LEA's is that they are very thorough with departmental policies and will investigate any misconduct or use of force. I can't say the same here in California.

Cops in America and Canada seem to function now under a health and safety protocol. It's as if whilst at a scene they make rapid risk assessments and then act accordingly to a scaled protocol that allows them to use deadly or lethal force pre-emptively as a matter of fact, whether they are in actual danger or not. Their remit is simply to resolve the situation as quickly as possible.

One man on a bus carrying a knife is not a 'real' threat to any one of the gun-carrying officers whom have engaged him. This was a situation where a Taser would have sufficed to subdue the suspect, instead he was shot, not even with the intention to incapacitate by wounding him...they simply executed him. Situation resolved. No attempt is made by the cops to save this suspect from himself.

If these cops were firemen, and ordered to go into a burning building to save a child in an upstairs room, their equivalent to the way they dealt with Yatim, would be..."What! Go in there! That's a bloody fire! Are you nuts!" There'd only go into the building when the fire is out, but of course, the child would now be a crisp. It's as if they believe their job should not endanger them in any way, even though danger goes with the job.

Sylent6:

...what else could he be concealing?

Cops should only be reacting to a threat they can see, not one they suspect.

Investigator: "So, why did you shoot him 9 times?"

Cop: "I believed he was concealing a nuclear bomb in his back pocket."

Investigator:"...and did he have one, a nuclear bomb in his pocket?"

Cop: "Erm..no, but he might've had!"

Investigator: "True. You're exonerated. Please report to SWAT, you're just what they're looking for."

reply to post by FraternitasSaturni

Do I pull knives inside public places and scare the living crap out of everyone and force everyone out of public places under knife threat? No.

i carry a rather large knife with me at all times, and i routinely offer it to strangers if they're struggling to open one of those damnable sealed plastic packages. now you can be sure that i will look around to see if there are police present. "he's pulling a knife, trying to steal that person's package, TAKE HIM OUT!!" not that hard to envision.

sure, the guy was in the wrong, but that many bullets sprayed carelessly makes me more afraid of being shot by an officer who thinks he's doing the right thing than being stabbed by the guy with the knife.

reply to post by defcon5


If we're going to be nitpicky, it's not actually a rule, it's more of a guideline. The point is, if you are pointing your gun at someone already, it doesn't matter how fast they are, if they are more than arm's length away, your bullet will reach them before they reach you, and if you also have the luxury of being able to move backwards or away from the threat, all the better. By rights, if you are worthy of owning a gun and already have it pointed at a threat, nobody should be able to get near enough to you with a blade to cause any damage before you have shot them. This is all assuming you are able-bodied, which police supposedly are.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
I added this video-still to the opening post...

If you select 1080 as the video quality on YouTube, you can get a better sense as to the actual sequence of events. Sammy Yatim was standing just behind the front of the car, visible in the first window. He dropped his arms and headed toward the front/entrance. The Toronto police immediate fired, before any determination as to Sammy Yatim's intent could possible be made -- they fired at first forward movement at a person some 15 feet from them, holding a knife.

Later in the video, you can hear a taser being used, apparently on the injured Sammy Yatim. Why wasn't a taser used earlier?

Just based on what I saw, this is clearly Police using excessive force. This is happening on a World wide scale, and has been happening for a long time.

When will the "force of the County" or any other Country wake up to this madness?

LEO's Worldwide need to check their mindsets, before they go off and "justify" murdering people. Just my Humble Opinion.

reply to post by Caroline13456


well he threatened people with a knife.. then he didn't drop the knife when he was told to drop the knife..

I am not really sure what kind of a response you expected the cops to have towards him...... walk up to him and give him a hug???


I say this frequently but I think people really need to hear it again. It is part of keeping yourself a live and safe. when you fail to do this stuff like this happens.

NEVER put your well being in another persons hands NEVER EVER. If you fail to do this then you open yourself up to anything even death.

This kid put his life in the hands of trigger happy cops.. he gave them an excuse and they killed him. this does not excuse the cops behavior but it could have been avoided. I think he had ample opportunity to diffuse the situation by dropping the knife... it didn't seem like he did so the cops used lethal force.

Sure they could have used non lethal force, but at that point it was up to their discretion as to what to use. If you don't want to give them the opportunity to use deadly force on you DON"T GIVE THEM A REASON.

Even if they are found guilty of using lethal force in this situation the kid is dead... it does absolutely nothing.


He lost his survival instincts.. whether it be due to mental issues or emotional stress.. or mere thrill seeking he s disregarded his survival instincts.. and it cost him his life..

what was he expecting the outcome to be?? he brought a knife to a fight against a gun wielding gang..

In my opinion he was looking to commit suicide..

mission accomplished.

Originally posted by Tazkven
reply to post by FraternitasSaturni

 

So you are saying this kid deserved to die?

Hate to be the one to break it to you but you are already sick, my friend ...

I understand your frustration with FraternitasS. and his comment but... Please don't feed this troll guys. All he has been doing is looking for attention with provocative posts today.

I am not a religious man... but hey... god.. or the creator will judge these murdering scumbags... being a police officer does not give an excuse to be a murderer... these guys are complete trash , and need to be locked up with no parole or food , or shipped of to iraq , or afganistan with no weapons to protect them!!! Total SCUM!!!!

Originally posted by Lil Drummerboy
what ever happened to shooting someone in the leg or arm to slow em down.

That has NEVER been accepted practice outside of movies and TV.
The leg is terrible place to shoot someone. Its thin. It has little “meat” and a large bone. Its a great place to have a round ricochet or pass through, and hit an innocent bystander.

reply to post by IvanAstikov


And maybe the cops should have stayed in there cars or maybe the cops should have sat at the local doughnut shop. If you threaten anybody with any type of weapon well you just made your own bed.

reply to post by Carreau


Alpine skiers don't interact with the public in the same way cops do, so the public is a bit more entitled to be critical of the latter's performance levels.

Originally posted by votan
reply to post by Caroline13456

 

well he threatened people with a knife.. then he didn't drop the knife when he was told to drop the knife..

I am not really sure what kind of a response you expected the cops to have towards him...... walk up to him and give him a hug???

Do you have evidence that he threatened people with a knife? From the story I've seen he told everyone to leave the vehicle. When does that become "threatening people with a knife"? If someone walked up to you holding a gun, is that threatening you with it? Isn't it permitted all over the US that you can carry guns? When does being in possession of something become "threatening people" with it?

Regardless of whether he did or didn't, there is something called a COURT OF LAW. This is where crimes are proven and punishment delivered. These murderers in uniform chose to become the judge, jury and executioner, when they could have used non-lethal force and talked him down, or injured him, rather than murdering him.

Regardless of what you think, he was alone, there was no one else at risk by this point, there is absolutely NO JUSTIFICATION for killing him, none at all, and you are completely wrong in your opinions.