Toronto Police Kill 18 Year Old Alone On Streetcar. Caught on Video. I Am Speechless.

Originally posted by be4ne1


One other little thing I might mention; Ya know... if they'd stop cuttin' people's heads off and stop acting so freaky about the littlest things-- I think the world would have a little more patience with "Arabs".

That's a HUGE Generalization of "Arabs", dont you think?



In this case I dont believe it was racially motivated. I think it was a LEO who has been taught to shoot and forgot that common sense could be applied.

Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni

Originally posted by Hefficide

I counted nine shots, in two clusters. It is glaringly obvious that the first cluster ( three shots ) was more than enough to deal with a knife wielding man who did not even appear to be attacking or trying to attack. The next six shots, I can only assume, were to make sure that he never got back up. I cannot imagine him being a threat after already being shot three times and put down.

IE the last six shots were murder. Plain and simple.

Do I pull knives inside public places and scare the living crap out of everyone and force everyone out of public places under knife threat? No.

Quit forgiving criminals, blatant threats to society and people that dont contribute with anything but with fear and insecurity towards law abiding innocent citizens.

That being said... I seriously doubt much was lost besides 8 extra bullets since 1 well placed should have done its job.

So, he deserved to die? If you believe that, you are truly an evil person. There is a special place in hell for you. You have the mindset of someone who supports the surveillance state. What's wrong with it if I'm not doing anything wrong? You are more of a threat to society than the guy on the bus.

reply to post by IvanAstikov


And a good hearted officer would indeed done that but you know how it is, one officer can't be the good guy when he working about a bunch of trigger happy clowns

reply to post by Adaluncatif

Gun Crime...

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by be4ne1

 

And if the world would stop showing all those pesky videos of American soldiers killing civilians - Arabs might not consider us to be barbaric war mongering fanatics.

It's all in ones POV and the propaganda that is splashed onto ones TV.

There is no excuse for racially profiling. In fact there are a slew of laws in nearly every Western nation to prevent and forbid doing so.

Oh Heff... you joined the "its the west's fault that arabs are psychos" bandwagon now?

Thats bs... and you know it. But thats ok... now we moved from excusing and apologizing criminals to justifying terrorists. Awesome...

Originally posted by Carreau
Just because 9 shots were fired doesn't mean he was hit 9 times. Considering how bad some city cops are, 3 hits would be normal. It says in the article that a cop with a taser didn't show up until after shots were fired.

I'm sorry but if someone pointing a gun at you (cop or not) and is yelling drop the knife and said knife holder doesn't drop the knife, this outcome is a foregone conclusion.

All that being said, since no one else was on the bus at the time, they should've waited him out unless he made a move towards one of the cops while still holding the knife.

They carry long distance tasers, and why does it always seem now to take a hundred police to each criminal.

Originally posted by Hefficide
Obviously by the first three shots - as he never exited the bus and his forward inertia is very obviously stopped during those initial shots.

So you know for a fact that they went through all the glass and metal on the bus and hit him with enough force to incapacitate him?

Originally posted by Hefficide
There was easily a several second pause between the two episodes of fire and at no point during that time did the suspect emerge from the bus.

After which they continued to yell for him to drop the knife, then tazed him, and called for an ambulance. To me that means he was not dead, he was wounded, he might have been down, but he was not giving up yet.

Originally posted by Hefficide
And... SUSPECT is the correct term for the guy.

Actually suspect implies that there is a question of guilt. I see no question of guilt here. This was a felon actively engaged in the commission of a crime witnessed by both law enforcement, and civilians who taped it.

reply to post by IvanAstikov

No I am not profiling but my own government is concerned so how do you know that they didn't have something on this man. How do you know that he didn't just get back from a trip to a camp there, I don't but I am sure they had their reasons for what they did, but hey we will all hear how he was such a 'good guy', we always do.

Public Safety.gc.ca
Syria’s civil war is an emerging cause for terrorists Individuals have travelled to Syria from around the world - including from Canada - to fight the Syrian government. Some of these foreign fighters are suspected of joining local extremist groups. As a result, some experienced extremists from other conflict zones like Iraq and Afghanistan are now operating in Syria. Both sides of the conflict in Syria involve many factions.

Since its formation in January 2012, for example, Jabhat al Nusra has emerged as a leading extremist group. It has adopted terrorist tactics to fight the civil war, claiming responsibility for more than 500 attacks last year. Jabhat al Nusra has ideological and tactical similarities to al Qaida, particularly with fellow extremists operating across the border in Iraq. These ties also demonstrate how the conflict in Syria is increasing the terrorist threat globally.

Oh dear...

Originally posted by defcon5

So you know for a fact that they went through all the glass and metal on the bus and hit him with enough force to incapacitate him?

I do not need to know that nor even wonder about it. I do know that his forward momentum, IE the imminent "threat" people seem to be clinging to was removed. He was no longer walking towards a cop.

Dear God do I really live in a world where I am arguing this point??? That I am having to say that a guy was not walking towards a cop - therefore the last six shots were unnecessary?

Originally posted by defcon5
After which they continued to yell for him to drop the knife, then tazed him, and called for an ambulance. To me that means he was not dead, he was wounded, he might have been down, but he was not giving up yet.

You skipped the part where he was fired upon six more times.

Originally posted by defcon5
Actually suspect implies that there is a question of guilt. I see no question of guilt here. This was a felon actively engaged in the commission of a crime witnessed by both law enforcement, and civilians who taped it.

So am I to understand that we have crossed the Rubicon and the assumption of innocence no longer applies? That the appearance or opinion of guilt is enough for law enforcement to arbitrarily levy a summary on sight execution?

Originally posted by Hefficide

Wait... are we now racially profiling and thinking that an Arabic appearing person should be treated differently than, say, a Swedish looking one???

That, to me, is every bit as untenable as those last six shots.

By no means am I defending those comments:

But as generalizations go everyone has them:

Like Swedish people they think of Ikea.

The other is the home of 'Jihad'.

Not saying it's right just saying that is they way it is.

Was it wrong to sterotype Arabs?

Yes, but they aren't the only ones who get 'generalized'.

Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni

Oh Heff... you joined the "its the west's fault that arabs are psychos" bandwagon now?

Thats bs... and you know it. But thats ok... now we moved from excusing and apologizing criminals to justifying terrorists. Awesome...

To be clear... You are generalizing an entire race of people as "psycho"?

Actually my inference was that media manipulation is to blame for both sides having their heads up their collective posteriors where opinions are concerned.

And for the record I have not apologized for anything anyone did. I simply pointed out what I see very clearly as an excessive use of force that resulted in the death of a young man.

Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni


Oh Heff... you joined the "its the west's fault that arabs are psychos" bandwagon now?

Thats bs... and you know it. But thats ok... now we moved from excusing and apologizing criminals to justifying terrorists. Awesome...

Hmmmm.

I read,

It's all in ones POV and the propaganda that is splashed onto ones TV.

Don't know how you get hes apologizing for anything, or making excuses. I thought he made a good case for those picking a side, and are brainwashed while doing it.

This Kid could have been Caucasian and 5 years old. I still would have the same position. It was Excessive....................

Originally posted by Hefficide

Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni

Oh Heff... you joined the "its the west's fault that arabs are psychos" bandwagon now?

Thats bs... and you know it. But thats ok... now we moved from excusing and apologizing criminals to justifying terrorists. Awesome...

To be clear... You are generalizing an entire race of people as "psycho"?

Actually my inference was that media manipulation is to blame for both sides having their heads up their collective posteriors where opinions are concerned.

And for the record I have not apologized for anything anyone did. I simply pointed out what I see very clearly as an excessive use of force that resulted in the death of a young man.

Media? Have you ever been there Heff?

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by defcon5

 

Obviously by the first three shots - as he never exited the bus and his forward inertia is very obviously stopped during those initial shots.

There was easily a several second pause between the two episodes of fire and at no point during that time did the suspect emerge from the bus.

And... SUSPECT is the correct term for the guy.

I was thinking the same about the shots, but I was not sure if it was just one person firing or more, in any case, they had a good view of the inside of the streetcar, (I said bus in an earlier post) I don't get this setup at all. The power is on in the streetcar okay, but you don't kill someone for perhaps making off on something on rails, you kill the power.

I do my level best to act and be responsible at home and in public. So far this has worked well in most instances. Because of the idiotic and self-serving drug war though I have found myself under suspicion merely by reason of "being" and I really do not appreciate the affront, especially for understanding the true nature of that scam.

In this instance in the OP there was an incident that required police action. Though the detail are somewhat sketchy it would appear LE over-reacted and cavalierly ended a life when less drastic measures would have sufficed. This is becoming more and more the norm these days, it would seem, when people just don' t comply fast enough to their barking commands. I do not foresee myself causing an incident as such but I have been stopped by LE and treated as I was under suspicion for some unspeakable crime.

Sorry, just not up for taking orders, today or any other day. My solution was to leave my native country for another with more personal freedom and privacy, but looking back I sometimes feel a twinge of guilt for not staying and fighting against the injustice and helping put down the corrupt forces that increasingly deprive Americans of our liberties.

Originally posted by defcon5

the use of force matrix is considered “proportionate response”, they are allowed to go to the next level higher to gain compliance.

So...
You're verbal, they're physical.
You're passive, they're pain compliance.
You're active, they're incapacitation.
You're aggravated, they're lethal.

They are always legally one stage ahead of what you are to give them the upper hand.

It really does seem to come down to "Us vs. Them" more and more these days, doesn't it? The friendly cop on the beat is a thing of the past. They are faceless in the crowd and demand compliance and often take delight in enforcing unjust laws and apprehending people for victimless crime along with just serving as agents for revenue enhancement. My life means nothing to them any more but more and more I will see those police agents as a threat to my well-being.

Now they have become more militarized, more suspicious, and more threatening and demanding than ever before. The question I have is who is going to reverse that trend, or will it just become more perverse?

Originally posted by sonnny1

Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni


Oh Heff... you joined the "its the west's fault that arabs are psychos" bandwagon now?

Thats bs... and you know it. But thats ok... now we moved from excusing and apologizing criminals to justifying terrorists. Awesome...

This Kid could have been Caucasian and 5 years old. I still would have the same position. It was Excessive....................

But it wasnt. Like it never is. he was arab, 18, armed with a knife and not obeying direct orders. And people are not very keen on trusting young arabs demonstrating unstable behaviors specially in large cities.

reply to post by FraternitasSaturni


Did they think he might have been given one of those Pakistani tennis ball nukes? If so, then we all have to congratulate them on their quick thinking. Yeah, let's go with the tennis ball nuke option.

Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni

Originally posted by sonnny1

Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni


Oh Heff... you joined the "its the west's fault that arabs are psychos" bandwagon now?

Thats bs... and you know it. But thats ok... now we moved from excusing and apologizing criminals to justifying terrorists. Awesome...

This Kid could have been Caucasian and 5 years old. I still would have the same position. It was Excessive....................

But it wasnt. Like it never is. he was arab, 18, armed with a knife and not obeying direct orders. And people are not very keen on trusting young arabs demonstrating unstable behaviors specially in large cities.

So, once again it is just shoot the bugger. Even more did he have a doomsday button on his willie, or did they just shoot him in case he harmed hinself.

I'm probably going to blow this all out of proportion, but I feel I have to say it. If any of you feel that my theory doesn't hold water, no harm - no foul.

Let's say I'm a cop. In this day and age I am probably trained to recognize a person's place of origin. In this case, a person from the Middle East. This young man cleared the passengers off the bus. Why? I don't know. Did he plan on taking the bus and crashing it into a highly populated area? I don't know. Did he have a bomb on the bus? I don't know.

Do I want to take a chance that this unstable person might get away with that bus, or set off a bomb right there? Would you take that chance?