Experimental Confirmation That The Universe Is Not Expanding

Originally posted by jiggerj
I've always been bothered by the fact that the galaxies we see are not galaxies, but only the light from those galaxies that has traveled millions of years to reach us. Meaning that all those galaxies are long gone. Right?

No. Galaxies don't just disappear into thin air (well, into thin vacuum), they exist for billions and billions of years. Sometimes they merge, get absorbed into a larger galaxy, or get torn to bits through gravitational interaction, but otherwise they carry on existing. It will probably take many trillions of years before most stars in galaxies die. The universe is "only" around 13.8 billion years old.

reply to post by AnarchoCapitalist


Well there goes my own theory as I had an alternative explanation for the perceived acceleration of the universe expansion to the dark energy theory, if this has not been already taken into account that is. S+F.

Originally posted by stormcell

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by stormcell
It's also been proven that gravity travels fast than the speed of light, around 10,000x faster.

It has? Where? You mean by the guy the OP says is wrong?

From this article stating that quantum entanglement must be at least 10000x times the speed of light. That would then include gravity:

www.gizmag.com...

The article doesn't say anything about gravity. There is no evidence gravity travels at the speed of quantum entanglement that I've seen.

You made up the part about gravity traveling faster than light, and confused it with quantum entanglement, which is what I suspected.

Originally posted by stormcell

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by stormcell
It's also been proven that gravity travels fast than the speed of light, around 10,000x faster.

It has? Where? You mean by the guy the OP says is wrong?

From this article stating that quantum entanglement must be at least 10000x times the speed of light. That would then include gravity:

www.gizmag.com...

Gravity shouldn't travel > C otherwise information would be available faster than light.

Originally posted by LABTECH767
reply to post by AnarchoCapitalist

 

Well there goes my own theory as I had an alternative explanation for the perceived acceleration of the universe expansion to the dark energy theory, if this has not been already taken into account that is. S+F.

Tell us your theory then!

Originally posted by wildespace

Originally posted by jiggerj
I've always been bothered by the fact that the galaxies we see are not galaxies, but only the light from those galaxies that has traveled millions of years to reach us. Meaning that all those galaxies are long gone. Right?

No. Galaxies don't just disappear into thin air (well, into thin vacuum), they exist for billions and billions of years. Sometimes they merge, get absorbed into a larger galaxy, or get torn to bits through gravitational interaction, but otherwise they carry on existing. It will probably take many trillions of years before most stars in galaxies die. The universe is "only" around 13.8 billion years old.

You missed the point. All those distant galaxies that we see are from when they were a million years ago, or even fifty thousand years ago, or 20 million years ago... Point being, they aren't there now. We are not seeing the galaxies as they are now, or from where they are now.

Originally posted by jiggerj
You missed the point. All those distant galaxies that we see are from when they were a million years ago, or even fifty thousand years ago, or 20 million years ago... Point being, they aren't there now. We are not seeing the galaxies as they are now, or from where they are now.

20 million years is a short time in galactic terms. It will take approx 4 billion years for the neighbours the Milky Way and Andromeda to collide. You're right in a way that the shape of galaxies changes over the course of time, but it also takes billions of years. The galaxies in the Ultra-Deep Huble image may be long gone, or be in different locations, but the nearer galaxies are pretty much there and looking pretty much the same as when the light left them.

Originally posted by jiggerj
You missed the point. All those distant galaxies that we see are from when they were a million years ago, or even fifty thousand years ago, or 20 million years ago... Point being, they aren't there now. We are not seeing the galaxies as they are now, or from where they are now.

The nearer galaxies haven't changed much in the time it takes the light to reach us as wildespace said.

To elaborate on the more distant galaxies...they look different, and more primitive, like they have been involved in less collisions. So, we can make an educated guess about what the more distant galaxies would look like today if we could see them....they would probably look more like the nearer galaxies and probably a lot of them would have merged and formed more complex galaxies like the closer spirals, instead of the simple spherical shapes we see. But they don't vanish into nothingness, so the matter still exists as far as we know.

After our galaxy and the Andromeda galaxy collide, the galaxies won't exist separately any more, but all the matter in those galaxies will still be around, with most of it in the merged galaxy and some amount being flung away.

Originally posted by EasyPleaseMe

Originally posted by LABTECH767
reply to post by AnarchoCapitalist

 

Well there goes my own theory as I had an alternative explanation for the perceived acceleration of the universe expansion to the dark energy theory, if this has not been already taken into account that is. S+F.

Tell us your theory then!

You have asked for a devils brew of information and my probable misinterpretation but here you go.

Now you are familiar with membrane theory, string and field theory, so according to membrane theory as it was explained for us laymen by some boffin's the time space continuum (or rather the underlying conditions and laws) may be the result of a collision in super space (a Hypothetical domain outside the time space continuum whose exact laws we can only postulate) between two membrane universe (they are like sheets as there internal dimensions and laws are irrelevant in super space as are our concepts of Cartesian coordinate's) and were these two membrane universe collide they cause an interaction at the point of collision that expresses itself as a new third combinant structure and form's a new membrane universe.

So to the point and condensing my odd hypothesis to a small and simple description.
Imagine gravity comes from an underlying membrane and like a sheet of blotting paper covered with ink it oozes gravity evenly and over that lies our universe membrane or the real space in which we live, now regardless of how it is twisted or kinked the gravity is evenly distributed so mass which is essentially the universal field kinked or crumpled into a standing wave form at right angles to the time space continuum is therefore more rich for the area of dimension in the amount of gravity that saturates that area and therefore the denser the mass the higher the gravity in that point of space, now imagine over our membrane another and that being were time and energy originated.
So lets say three layers call the base "sub space" and our "layer the time space continuum" the overlying energy and time space "Over space".

Now imagine you are in our time space and see a black hole that is forming just before the collapse to just after it.
Look into the very centre as though you are surrounded by all the gravity rich mass and what is at the very centre, a point of zero gravity being pulled in all directions by the mass of the supergiant star - a very small point maybe below sub atomic?.
As the star collapses it forms an external event horizon and as anything is drawn to it by the force of gravity like mass whose the field or string of which it is formed as a standing waveform at right angles to the flow of perceived time is simple pulled flat and the mass is there fore cancelled out or spaghetified, now what do you think is happening at the internal point, an internal even horizon must also have formed and the force of gravity for a the briefest instant been focused into the space within the spherical enclosure and pulling the very time space continuum into an inversion therefore pulling Over space energy and time into that point?.
This energy and time is asymmetrically distributed as the exact centre would likely have moved around somewhat and there may indeed be several mini inversion (Big bangs) in the same space and this energy and time being isolated from the outlying time continuum may then coalesce into an independent (but not separate) time space continuum with a relatively faster rate of time to the out lying universe.
AS the time space continuum is still being acted upon by the external gravity of a black hole outside the event horizon surrounding it the effect would be as it travels out from the centre a slow acceleration would occur and no falling back under it's own gravity would occur.

Accelerating expansion.
Asymmetrical displacement of stars and time space itself.

It is too complex for me to put the whole idea here but there you go and you did ask.

reply to post by LABTECH767


In reprise there fore the inverse universe is only there for an instant and the gravity that brought it into being remains longer than the universe that the inversion or white hole formed into, the time inside that TSC is faster relative to the flow of time in the external TSC and as the black hole undergoes quantum evaporation it can be perceived that the internal TSC will by the effective end of the black hole have reached both entropy and spaghetification but maybe no and the quantum evaporation of the BH may lead instead to isolated pockets of TSC with differential time rates making our universe a bit like a sponge if you could look at it were each TSC was one of the holes in the sponge, now maybe they are not independent but other than dimensional travel I can think of no work around to travel between TSC.
As the TSC all reach old age the time rate variation between them will even out and eventually reach equilibrium.

Originally posted by LABTECH767
reply to post by LABTECH767

 

In reprise there fore the inverse universe is only there for an instant and the gravity that brought it into being remains longer than the universe that the inversion or white hole formed into, the time inside that TSC is faster relative to the flow of time in the external TSC and as the black hole undergoes quantum evaporation it can be perceived that the internal TSC will by the effective end of the black hole have reached both entropy and spaghetification but maybe no and the quantum evaporation of the BH may lead instead to isolated pockets of TSC with differential time rates making our universe a bit like a sponge if you could look at it were each TSC was one of the holes in the sponge, now maybe they are not independent but other than dimensional travel I can think of no work around to travel between TSC.
As the TSC all reach old age the time rate variation between them will even out and eventually reach equilibrium.

Too late to edit so when I say inverse universe you need to look at the Einstein model of the black hole, I believe each physicist in there time worked with what they had to hand and Einstein was no exception, that inverse is when the time energy is pulled from hyperspace by the initial overflux of the black hole and that overflux falls back to the gravity of a standing black hole just after it is formed so the inversion seals trapping that time and energy in the new TSC that is forms.
I perceive time as flowing back to the overspace (hyperspace) as gravity pulls to subspace.
This of course means as a theory that there may be many more similar (basic identical laws) TSC within our membrane not separated in superspace and they may be even as a possibility infinite in number so the end of the universe is really only the end of a TSC that is one of many and it is conceivable by this theory that there are possibly black holes in our TSC that are parents to continuum and inside them are black holes that are parent's to continuum like fractals but to travel between them you would need to find a black hole that is such a parent, identify a parallel universe were it does not exist position yourself at the exact centre of the infant TSC and travel back to the reality were it does while tunnelling your energy and mass somehow into that new TSC and compensate for it's faster time stream, this would probably be impossible but a communication may be possible.