If we can imagine it, it already exists

If we can imagine it, it already exists. Hang in there with me for a second. This is my Thursday morning random philosophical thought. We can not imagine a color that does not exist, nor a sound that does not exist. How is it we, or do we come up with ideas that do not exist? Is it possible that anything we can imagine exists somewhere out there? Maybe mythological Roman or Greek creatures for example/little grey aliens........do our ideas actually come from out of no where? Or do they come from some pre-existing knowledge that we have buried deep down that we can't access?

reply to post by FreeMason0508


The colour and sound part I have always found interesting.

It depends on the definition of exists.

For example, God exists to some, and not to others, does that make him less real?

Something can exist to me that doesn't to you etc etc.

I would like to thank you though for making me go cross eyed and froth at the mouth at my desk.

You have injured my synapses.

For a moment i read this as a rule 34 thread but anyway

I'd imagine that a lot of things such as mythical beasts would of gone around as stories getting retold time and time again so a giant eagle was seen eating a lion corpse and after 100 iterations of Chinese whispers its a eagle with a lions body or just tale tellers wanting to make something up to wow a crowd to make some coin as most of these things are based on actual animals which is what makes them possibly more believable

Just try and describe even the most absurd animal you could think of and you'll probably have to break into a few xxxx-like, size of an yyyy etc unless you fancy describing in a story of a bi-pedal unit 6 feet in height with rgb code 556677 coloured fur with a gait of 18 inches etc etc

If existance is a meer thought then thought is excistance and anything is possible.

reply to post by FreeMason0508


Well according to some theories, if enough people try to observe something which hasn't been discovered yet it will materialize and become tangible. I don't know if I believe it but it would explain why every time they try to estimate the size of the universe it get's bigger. They try to look further which in turn "creates" yet an other piece of space giving the impression that space is expanding at a speed faster than the speed of light. Again, I don't know if I believe that but it's very interesting.

reply to post by XLR8R


That is interesting. I had not heard that before.

Originally posted by FreeMason0508
reply to post by XLR8R

 

That is interesting. I had not heard that before.

Yeah, me either. Brings new meaning to "seek and ye shall find!"

reply to post by new_here


You took the words out of my mouth!!, or the fingers of my keyboard!! About what our friend said above about the ever expanding universe I have watched many a documentary about quantum physics and what many in the field believe is that when you get down to the "nittty-gritty" we live in a universe of vibration and waves of potentiality!! Everything already exist and when we think or imagine an idea or thought we are just pulling it from the vibrating universal field of potential. I find it facinating to be honest,......but a quantum physicist im not, so I`l hand you over to an expert and hope this helps, enjoy my friends.

Originally posted by FreeMason0508
If we can imagine it, it already exists.

Does tomorrow exist? Does yesterday exist? Does 5 minutes ago exist?

reply to post by FreeMason0508


I can't remember where I read or saw this, but it was in line with The Universe is a Hologram thing and the double slit experiment. You know send one photon through 2 slits and if unobserved they act as a wave but if observed no interference pattern is detected type thing. Apparently our observation interacts with reality...according to this theory.

reply to post by XLR8R


The right person has to believe it before it becomes reality. There are only a couple thousand of the right people on this planet.

What if I imagine an elephant sitting in my room? Does that mean an elephant has been in my room before? Of course not, but to imagine something is to make it come into existence in a way. If you imagine it, it is part of your existence for however long you think about it.

Than with all the imaginations here on ATS we're probably the origin of a lot of strange and horrifying things in the world.

reply to post by FreeMason0508


Our brains are all somewhat "hardwired" to work the same way I think. We each may take different paths of thought to arrive at the same idea but there is no original idea- just someone who thought of it first. So maybe all ideas are intrinsic to our minds, and it's just a matter of tapping into them. That whole "when an idea just comes to mind" thing, or the "EUREKA!" effect....

Take ATS for instance. On several occasions I've thought of something that I considered to be completely original and my own, and yet there it was; my idea being spelt out in a post by another member who I've never had the pleasure of conversing with.

I think it has to with human thought patterns and how we are conditioned to think and problem solve. Either by nature itself or society, or maybe a combo of both...

For instance- why is it that so many people experience the same types of dreams? Like being chased by a shadowy figure, or teeth falling out, or being naked in front of a classroom...

What is that?

There are things that exist for some, that do not exist for others, vice versa. One example being people who have tetrachromacy or dichromacy. Those people can not relate their reality to ours, nor ours to them. Same goes for people who are born deaf or blind. They can not possibly imagine what it is like to have those sense without a reference point. Does that mean sight and sound can not exist? It's all relative.

The very nature of our existence is dependent upon our imagination before our intellect.

Another way of saying it is that in order for us to think, we first had to dream.

Please keep this point in mind at all times.

Close your eyes for a moment and consider it the first moment of time, there is neither light nor sound, nothing but you and the essence of all you are floating in that ultimate emptiness.

Some would say this leads to madness. And it should, for now we have chaos. Thrown against the fragments of your own mind you would begin to reassemble reality anew from its pieces, picking up memories and knowledge like some grumbling beggar digging through the refuse.

How much would you throw out? How much would you keep?

Would you make something of form or substance with all those broken thoughts? A landscape of depth and perception to serve merely as a shelter against your own disoriented perception of reality.

A rock would be a rock.

A tree would be a tree.

Like a child you might get lost in the game, making these things called flowers in a thousand orgasmic colors that you didn't merely paint. You expressed them, you gave them all the emotional content to which we now attribute a rose, a daffodil or a sunflower. You would just not name it and wander away, no, your memory of that thing would hit you like a wave of power and emotion.

You would be the flower, every flower that would come from it's seed, spiraling down into infinity and back in the breath of a moment.

Delighted by the rush of creation, a rush we still seek in the ages that come to follow, you let those safe and sweet memories surge forward again and again, ecstatic and enraptured.

Your joy and innocence would be the sweet pleasures of spring, the joy of the winds, the promise of new life.

Whether it took a day or ten million years your joy with the flowers and trees would end.

They would be too simple, to silent.

The roar of the jungle, the swift and pounding heart of the prey. Like all things would go grow into an age of predator and prey, of violence and blood. Perhaps at first you would play with small things, feeling shy and soft, but that would change. As teeth and claw met, as the heat of life was spilled and the remains gorged upon for salvation from an unending hunger you might let it win.

The summer's would be hotter and shorter, and perhaps darkest of all.
Flesh would be claimed, lives would be ended, the hunt would continue until all had fallen.
You might lose yourself in that thirst for blood.

Greater challenges would need to be met, the urge to conquer would be unstoppable, and so with each new beast there would come greater sizes, greater fangs. The hunger too would remain, the need for more meat in greater numbers might begin to push the limits of your fragile flower filled world.

The Fall sweeps over you like a rage that first burns hot, then chills the blood to the core.

WIth life broken and so fragile, your heart would soon go cold.

Winter, the season of death, would claim all that it could and always will.

But the spring would still come.

With the rising of a warm sun, and the thawing of your ancient heart, the world would see another day.

A more crafted day, one driven not by the thirsts that had once overwhelmed and controlled.

With each new beast you would provide a balance, nature would take sway as you left the world to its growth, but you would always be there to watch closely and cull that which threatened everything. As you watch the growing lives around you, seeing their intricate and intimate play, you lose yourself in the wonder of what you have created and granted life.

Then, a memory that makes your heart ache, that you were not always alone.

Man, or some approximation of it, some dim haunted memory of a tortured past for your people.

Suffering in the cold, fighting for flesh, living like animals.

You watch them closer then everything else, you see your own past reflected in their eyes, your own swirling chaotic emotions ruling their hearts and clouding their minds like a storm.

Maybe, just once, you add yourself to their numbers. You walk as you once did, offer a gift of fire from the skies on a cold night only to end your years in hunger and death like all things must.

You drive them onward, sometimes with the quiet weathering of ages, sometimes with the calculated need to teach and experience. And the flesh has always failed to fully conceal the divine.

For that small spark of you, either by instinct or intelligent choice, would remain in the blood of all those you had sired.

Great hunters and Rulers of men would be born from the seed of heaven.
A cherished truth that so many cultures would one day share.

They begin to see too much, begin to see spirits and gods in all things. They call out names into the night, male and female, animal or tree, begging your return. Needing your presence to guide and shape them.

Sometimes you would come, by need or desire.

As your people grew, the list of names to which a part of you answered would grow. Families of ancient power would rule the skies, Gods and Goddesses would be born in the dreams of all.

You would soon realize, long before they even knew, that your time with them must be short. Like children you could not give them too much, could not support them throughout all their years.

Sometimes they would have to walk alone.

Frightened, confused, they would chastise and rebuke your name. Hating you for the firm hand you needed to guide them.

But you who was older by far would be the wiser.
Most of the time.

Soon a time would come when they did not call upon you so often, a time would come when they spoke of you only in fearful whispers and dark moments of sin.

You would remind them of your strength, show them your compassion.

The call of the people, the needs of the gods.

War and pain, the need to hunt and conquer and grow.

All of your past mistakes show clearly in their darkest hour, you can see them in their deepest hearts and know each by what it truly is.

Judgement, the eternal cost of darkness, the eternal reward of light.

Like a frightening dream that is never as clear in the light of day, they remember that there is reward and a penalty, that life does not merely end.

The hint of it, the teasing reminder that somethings might last well beyond a hundred years would be like a thorn in their side.

If pain can be infinite in life, how plentiful might it be in death.

You comfort them with heaven, with promises of golden thrones and blessed virgins. They cling to like children, frightened of the eternal, so unaware of the divine.

They are you, created in your own image, blessed with all that you had been given. And in death, they too would begin their journey and walk in the path of god.

Whether that road led through heavens or hells was up to them.

Time would be meaningless, mankind would be an art.

A dreamer, perhaps short in life but eternal in spirit, each would at its heart be a dreamer.

And new worlds would be born.

reply to post by FreeMason0508

If we can imagine it, it already exists

I'd rather think that if it can be imagined, it can be invented. But, exists already? I doubt faster than light travel is there yet.

If something is traveling faster then light, then it is traveling faster then time.
So technically, it might already be here and we just don't know it yet because it's not the right time.

If that doesn't work for you, dig on this for synchronicity.
Gene Roddenberry and his team imagined faster then light travel before it existed!

History of the Enterprise

Origins

In the summer of 1964, Gene Roddenberry, in a meeting with his newly formed Art Department, issued the following instructions to Pato Guzman and Matt Jefferies:

"We're a hundred and fifty or maybe 200 years from now. Out in deep space, on a cruiser-size spaceship. We don't know what the motive power is, but I don't want to see any trails of fire. No streaks of smoke, no jet intakes, rocket exhaust, or anything like that. We're not going to Mars, or any of that sort of limited thing. It will be like a deep-space exploration vessel, operating throughout our galaxy. We'll be going to stars and planets that nobody has named yet." He then got up and, as he started for the door, turned and said, "I don't care how you do it. but make it look like it's got power."

Eventually, the design became quite specific. The following is from "An Official Biography of a Ship and It's Crew":

The Enterprise is the largest man-made vessel in space. It is 947 feet long, 417 feet wide overall, and has a maximum gross weight of 190,000 tons. It is divided into three main sections: the saucer-shaped primary hull, the cigar-shaped secondary (engineering) hull, and the twin engine pods.
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The two long nacelles, atop the ship and attached to the engineering hull by slender pylons, house the main starship engines. The engines are each 504 feet long, 60 feet in diameter, and operate via controlled fusion of matter and anti-matter, creating the fantastic power required to run the Enterprise and drive it at faster-than-light speeds.

The speed of light, 186,000 miles a second (about 700,000,000 miles per hour), is in itself a speed with which much of the audience has difficulty relating. Even greater problems result when it becomes necessary to express a speed many times faster than the speed of light. Star Trek dialogue solves the problem by measuring all faster-than-light speeds in terms of "Warp Factors." Warp Factor One is the speed of light. Warp Factor Three is 27 times the speed of light. Maximum safe cruising speed of the Enterprise is Warp Factor Six, or 216 times the speed of light./]

Originally posted by FreeMason0508
If we can imagine it, it already exists. Hang in there with me for a second. This is my Thursday morning random philosophical thought. We can not imagine a color that does not exist, nor a sound that does not exist. How is it we, or do we come up with ideas that do not exist? Is it possible that anything we can imagine exists somewhere out there? Maybe mythological Roman or Greek creatures for example/little grey aliens........do our ideas actually come from out of no where? Or do they come from some pre-existing knowledge that we have buried deep down that we can't access?

edit on 25-7-2013 by FreeMason0508 because: typo

By jeez by jingo by crikey....I think you are onto something here.
Have you heard of the word, "gigantaloopism"?
It feels like i just made it up but it came from somewhere...what does it mean?
I think it means the cycle of life.