A Foot Soldier Throws Down His Gun

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by TDawgRex

 

That's why I think we should isolate ourselves from them entirely - we don't need their "oil" all that badly - we could be developing other ways to 'power up' our own country....
aside from that, though, the ideological tension will likely NEVER end, and even among themselves, they are constantly at war and conflict.

You might be telling the truth about yourself, and this might apply to all of us, but there is small number of people who need their oil to get more rich... and that small number does not give a damn about middle east, us or anyone else...

Sad reality...

reply to post by wildtimes


You might laugh, but I get a bit unglued on Memorial Day when people say this like "honor our Veterans!"

No, Memorial Day is to honor and respect those who were killed, who never made it home. We Veterans have our own day of honor and I believe the entire focus should be on those who gave their lives.

It's my pickle I suppose.

reply to post by Druscilla


I didn't know the people who flew the planes into buildings were from iraq......

We just went after iraq because we had unfinished business there and the 9/11 attacks were a great excuse for that.


I just do not understand why people continue to sign up for the military knowing all the garbage the government does with them.

Our military isn't really fighting to protect the freedoms others covet from us.....our government is taking those said freedoms away from us on its own.

why exactly are we fighting there?? for resources and influence.

which is fine and dandy as we are an empire i just wish they would stop lieing about it and gives us teh spoils of war. give it to the soldiers and the people of this countyr... but all we get is a nice pat on the back and the moral victory of spreading democracy...

meanwhile the government, banks and huge corps get filthy rich off the spoils of war.

Originally posted by Druscilla
reply to post by wildtimes

 

I don't entirely disagree.
Wouldn't it be nice if the world were so simple as everyone picking a spot, sticking to it and minding their own business?
Unfortunately such aint so. No matter where you go, there will always be meddlers that either want something from someone on the other side of some fence, or don't approve of the manners, habits, and customs of people that have absolutely nothing to do with them.

It's one reason I dream of a day where interstellar space travel is cheap, easy and accessible to anyone and everyone.
All the ABCs can get on a rocket and colonize their very own remote ABC planet far away from everyone, and XYZs can do the same, just as well as the 123s, and anyone else that has trouble getting along with anyone else.

here's where I have a Huge problem with the whole the world not nice and we must be on the defensive, etc. not attacking you, ok,

But the Whole idea because Yes, we SHOULD HAVE A STRONG DEFENSE. I Totally concur with that one one hundred percent,

BUT

We do NOT HAVE A STRONG DEFENSE.

1. Our Borders are a JOKE.

2. Our infrastructure is in disarray, Neglected Deliberatley I might add and is NOT protected as IT SHOULD BE. Fact.

3. We bring IN more enemies than fight overseas and it's DELIBERATE, fact. We allow anti western law pushers to spew their hate, have whole schools, Even forcing a curriculum in our schools that leans to an Apologetic surrender, meanwhile Underminding our Own Human and Constitutional rights to Appease these agendas, fact.

4. We continue to Trade with these hostile nations and ARM them with support, both in market and Black Market, fact.

5. We do NOT demand a litmus test of any kind or even a Loyalty pact before we allow immigration or residency, he'll we don't even push that they learn our language. It's US having to change for them...more and more and more. Fact. Not just the Mexicans either, I'm talking about the discrimination against Workers in appeasing Sharia Law pushing Grouos, FACT. We had Two cases just in my state alone over this Very issue.

6. We treat refugees From these nations hostile to us BETTER THAN OUR OWN VETERANS, fact. refugees I might add that are Anti American Law system, and who Defy it every chance they get AND what is the resource? Cultural Realivist KAKA that's what.

Anything for a Cheap buck, That's what it's Really about...and I say this as a former hard core LEFTIST, because I seen the agendas and Kniw what the agenda is. Security, BULL CRAP.

This Nation is UNDER SEIGE by our Very own System, sold us out Loooong time ago.

Americans forget WHO PUT these Grouos in power, both Saddamn And ole Al CIA DA,

AMERICA.

Good ole America of Saudi Arabia. And China.

Let's face it, we're screwed...and our TRAITOROUS Gubermint is laughing all the way to the MINING TRAIL MINERAL AND GOLD BANK.

My aren't we Gullible!!! To Think its about those Towers, you know it doesn't even Matter the whole conspiracy of the 9-11,

There is Enough OTHER BETRAYALS that #, It don't matter. The Trade alone, the pacts they have made, agreements propping up these THUG REGIMES, and then PROTECTING THEM via arms, training, all of it,

That turn Right around and KILL OUR OWN SONS AND DAUGHTERS...

While the uber rich BUY up Development in Dubai.

Yea, that whole we must have WAR because of 9-11 is pure unadulterated BS

IF that was even Partially true,

There would be Zero tolerance to demands for prayer halls and persecution of non Islamists would not be tolerated whatsoever....but it IS tolerated, and to top it off,

They are Persecutiing American Citizens. Folks we are under a COUP SEIGE,

If people haven't seen that by now, they are Seriously deluded.

reply to post by wildtimes


Well said!
Amen (I agree for those who do not speak that tongue)

Originally posted by badgerprints
I don't see how a mid level manager in a high tech firm quitting is "Throwing down a gun."

If he didn't stand against what he was doing when he felt it really counted then what does that say about him now? He's just another guy who isn't happy with his job and is trying to make quitting seem like an honorable gesture.

It's about the same mentality as someone who watches unfair practices in the workplace and after years, decides to quit, and afterwards decides to report all of the violations they saw.

Non-story.

In my jaded opinion of course.

Woodrow Wilson apologized on his death bed for "betraying his country". A little late for sure, but it was the damn truth.

People realize their horrible mistakes after the fact, not before or during or nobody would ever make any mistakes.

Originally posted by wildtimes
A Foot Soldier Throws Down His Gun
from consortiumnews.com
This is an interview with a man who has resigned from working for a major Military/Industrial contractor. He says his actions are the result of having been a 'machine gunner' in Iraq, recognizing that what the US is doing over there is WRONG, he has decided to man up and STOP participating.

Nice post Wildtimes. I caught a bit of an interveiw with him yesterday on KPFK, don't remember the show, one of the Sunday am ones -

He has a video posted at Common Dreams: I can't find it. bummer.

Nite all.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by TDawgRex

 

I'll be 55 this autumn, and I know that peace has NEVER existed in the Middle-East, as you point out, TDawg.

In your lifetime or ever - and based on what sources. I can't let this kind of over generalization go without challenge. History is written by the winners. To convince me you must first define "Peace" - I suspect that peace has never existed anywhere on this planet.

Poe boy joins the army.

Rich boy goes to college.

Somebody sang about that once.

reply to post by ThreeBears


And this is where we second amendment guys step in.

When all the oil is pumped out of the ground in the middle east (Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Libya)...the US will once again have no interest in that region. Our economy lives and breaths oil...without it...mass chaos and economic destruction... One day Saudi Arabia is going to find out what its like to have a huge population and nothing to sell the world but sand and camels...

reply to post by dingleberrydan

Actually the middle east can't fight a big war so I guess we are picking one with China now,idiots.

Originally posted by alienreality
The entire world is beginning to rebel against the Obama regime... I bet sooner or later his house of cards will fall on top of him and his co conspirators in crime..

So has evil Obama been planning control of the world his entire life? And here I thought it was military-industrial-corporate complex that controlled everything.

I have no problems with blaming Obama for a whole lot, but he is just the most recent in a line of stooges, since Reagan, who have been the titular head of the US.

Originally posted by watchitburn
I think the upswing in PTSD and suicides is due mostly to people who have no business being in the military signing up for all the wrong reasons. Whether it is for a steady job, college tuition or a misguided sense of patriotic duty. Either way, I have noticed a decline in the quality of personnel in the Armed forces.

I'm reminded by this of all the kids I saw getting on planes to go over and fight Sandbox v1.0 back in the 90's. Far too many of them actually said some variant of "War? Nobody told me militaries fight in WARS! This isn't what I signed up for! I just signed up for the VA benefits and to get money for college! No one told me I might have to actually FIGHT!" Sad but true - way too many seem to have had no concept of what a military if for.

I think most likely it is a combination of several factors.

1. Society as a whole is producing weaker people; mentally, socially and physically.
2. The increase in the size of military over the past 10+ years and the lowering of standards.
3. The economy driving people into the service who otherwise would have chosen another occupation.

There are probably others that I haven't thought of, but I have been in the military since before Sept 11 and have noticed the change over the years. Hopefully the cutting down of the numbers of troops will contribute to correcting this.

War is not a thing most of the population is suited for, and when exposed to it we get these results.

Sad but true. Technology, medical science, and mismanagement of sociological security nets seem to be producing an ever-weakening species. No longer does nature cull out the weak from the herd, instead they are handed the keys to the kingdom, and are free to produce offspring even weaker than the parents, mentally, morally, and physically. Then manipulation of economic factors forces those weaker specimens into roles they are wholly unsuited to, and we get the results we are getting now.

I cannot with a clear conscience decry ALL war as a blanket policy. Some times, you just have to snatch up your musket and march towards the sound of gunfire in order to protect the people you care about. Human nature being what it is, there will always be some sumbitch who is intent on simply taking what is not his from you and yours, or imposing his will on same, and you have to stand up and be counted. Sadly, in the matter of Iraq, WE appear to be those sumbitches I am referring to. MOST (but not ALL) wars are unjustified, and unjustifiable. Iraq fell into that category. When it first broke out, I thought "WTF? You gents are taking your eyes off the ball in play, and going after the crowd in the stands instead!". That is not to disparage the soldiers who fought there, though. For the most part they were honorable people fighting for honorable convictions, but were misled and fed wrong information to whip them into a frenzy and lead them to those convictions.

Not their fault.

No one told them

By then, they knew what militaries were for, but no one told them a military can be misused and misdirected.

They thought only the "other guys" did that.

Originally posted by TDawgRex

Here's the kicker to contractors. They have to pay for their own healthcare and insurance, which is a lot more than Soldiers have to pay. That's one of the reason they get paid so well.

Yeah. And just TRY to find a policy that covers "acts of war". If you can find it, it's gonna cost you out the wazoo. It's almost preferrable to just take your chances and try to rely on being able to duck fast.

Can they be arrogent? Yep. But I also met some cool ones as well. The OGA's had some cool guys but for the most part, they were dicks. Most probably were forced out of the JSOC community because of it.

edit on 22-7-2013 by TDawgRex because: Big Paws and no thumbs

It takes all kinds, but I've noticed that some companies have... lax... hiring practices. They tend to draw cowboys and dicks like great big magnets. You'll find the mix between good and bad in ALL of the companies, but the proportions differ based on hiring practices. Some just want cannon fodder so they can put bodies on the ground to secure a contract, and the "Walter Mitty" and "cowboy" types are too stupid to know they're just there to be moving targets.

Blackwater is one of the worst offenders for hiring idjits. Their standards look good on paper, but on the sands it's a different story. Something is getting lost in the translation there.

Note on butterbars: they all think they are God's gift to modern warfare, yet don't even know how to properly fold a map. Takes a platoon sergeant to make a human out of one. They have to be re-educated to undo all the damage done by all that theoretical schooling before they are of any real use.

I'm reminded by this of all the kids I saw getting on planes to go over and fight Sandbox v1.0 back in the 90's. Far too many of them actually said some variant of "War? Nobody told me militaries fight in WARS! This isn't what I signed up for! I just signed up for the VA benefits and to get money for college! No one told me I might have to actually FIGHT!" Sad but true - way too many seem to have had no concept of what a military if for.

reply to post by nenothtu


I saw and heard this throughout the '90's an '00's. Even during my last tour in '07-08 I heard it.

There are times I wish I could sterlize idiots like that. I used to chew them out when I heard crap like this spewing out of the piehole and try to pull their head out of their fourth point of contact but that got tiring after a while. Ya can't fix stupid.

reply to post by votan

I just do not understand why people continue to sign up for the military knowing all the garbage the government does with them.

Nobody joins the military thinking it is for the worst.

Army recruiters intentionally target the bottom 1/3 of high school graduating classes. Do you know why that is?

It's because those are the kids that are more likely to come from a dysfunctional family, or poverty, or they just aren't that bright, or they have very low self esteem, or they are all of those things together. Basically these are the most hopeless kids that aren't going to be able to afford college or have much of a future.

reply to post by TDawgRex


Yeah, I was in during 9/11.

It was pretty comical to me to hear all of the guys that had been on duty during the (relatively peaceful) Clinton years freaking out about having to go somewhere hostile.

I just kept thinking, "Really? You join an organization like the military and don't consider the possibility that one day you might get sent somewhere that people shoot at you?"

reply to post by Cancerwarrior


I joined in 1984 I like war movies. I think I was intelligent enough to know...so I went recon.
Some of us are wired for it.We aren't going to deliberately get joy out of killing but to do what must be done in a professional, expert fashion in order to win the conflict, end it and preserve other human life as best we can,because we can.

reply to post by cavtrooper7


I was in a cav unit for a while. (Sound the Charge!) Then got sent to the BRO (Pattons Army babayyyy!!) when I went to Germany.

I joined up really because there has always been a strong military tradition in my family. And I, like so many others, did not feel that I had to many other prospects in my hometown.

I'm proud of my service. It was a big part of making me who I am today. And I happen to like who I am.

I'm not necessarily proud of the politicians who decided to send me and others like me away from my home and family for a bunch of lies.

See I think its really a hell of a thing when someone signs the dotted line. You are basically pledging to lay down your life to protect your fellow man from harm. The bible even says that nobody can have greater love than if they lay down their life for a friends life. And I think its a noble thing, you pledge to do what you have to and in return you assume that they will never send you into harms way unless it is absolutely necessary for the sake of preserving your home and family.

I held up my end of the bargain. They failed me on theirs. That's how I see it anyways.