Navalny verdict: LIVE UPDATES

Originally posted by victor7
reply to post by GargIndia

 

There is no alternative to Putin, but he can be more tough in bringing people to line. One fine morning 500 worst criminals and corrupts taken to jail and keys thrown away. No questions asked and No answers given. Russians do not understand soft language and abuse it when talked in one.

Why do you expect this from Putin when he is the most corrupt in your eyes?
What action can citizens take in Russia? Are people organized enough (for example through church)?

Originally posted by victor7

Originally posted by Happy1
reply to post by victor7

 

Both of you need to read albert pike's WW3 predictions - obama, putin, and the rest of the "civilized world" are working to bring in the NWO - which will be godless communism to a war-weary world.

It's sickening when you realize what these supposedly "warring" factions of the world are working towards -

Some sort of NWO based on more cohesion due to internet aided communication capabilities can be a possibility. Going back to godless communism is not happening at all. Everyone is entitled to make predictions. Taking them seriously is another thing.

There is no NWO as per your wish or my wish. You can gain more knowledge about NWO from the internet.

NWO is not good for Russia.

Those officers or whoever they are in the OP picture look well fed. Guess that's a perk there or they have good donuts. Seems to be a trait of the profession.

Russians will never assimilate with West Europeans. They can try but will fail.

Russians should understand that their origins are in Asia, in the Tarim valley of Xinxiang where their ancestors lived.

The Kushans who established rule over North-West part of India 20 centuries back were from the same stock as Russians.

The white "Aryan" that supposed invaded India are not invaders but mostly migrants from the same stock as Russians, though Indian population has assimilated a lot of different people earlier as well.

There is a chasm between East and West. People may try to paper it over but it does not go away. It is because of genetics. Different people have different ancestry and temperament.

Democratic institutions need to be strengthened in Russia. Democracy is much more than street protests or fighting legal battles. Nation-wide political parties are needed with large membership, who can take action as a cohesive force.

reply to post by GargIndia


In this digital age it does not matter where one is from but what information one intakes and what culture one grows up in. Culture is more important than genes, not to say that genes are totally out of the equation. Genetic engineering is just around the corner and parents will be ordering blue or green eyes for their kids and same with height and facial features etc. It is nearly insane to think of the possibilities of such sciences.

Why would Russians not assimilate with the Europeans? They can easily but Europeans do not want and encourage them. For Western Europe, Russians are a slavic stock and also a mix between Mongols (Chinese) and Nordics. W. Europe also has racial issues with non whites and non Christians while Russian beliefs are little more tolerant. Another problem is W. Europe follows Catholic and Protestant Christianity while Russia is 90% Orthodox. Another deviation in the eyes of the West.

It is the hostile and offensive stance of the west which is stopping Russians from assimilation with the rest of the Europe. Russians know pretty well that both Chinese and Indians want to extract resources from Russia and offer little in return. Same is true about the western attitude.

Seems everyone wants to jiggle their hands in the resource rich pockets of Russia. This attitude will not stop until Russians themselves stop looting their country and people and park funds overseas.

Finally, original Russians are more of a Nordic stock but Hun and Mongol invasion resulted in mixing of the genes somewhat.

reply to post by victor7


Victor - can you tell me even one instance where India has short-changed Russia?

India is the only country that paid USSR era debts, and ordered large amount of military hardware at a time when Russian industry was shutting down en masse.

Your attitude towards India is very funny - I do not understand the reason. Can you explain?

India buys stuff from many countries. India's trade with Russia is mostly in favor of Russia.

I do not know about the Chinese. However selling crude oil or gas to China can no way be exploitation of Russia.

What do you expect from India?

Russians want to spend their money in France or Italy. Russians want to buy stuff from Europe. How much Russia invests in India?

For all the money Russians have spent or sent to Europe, what benefit has Russia got?

And genetics matters, more than religion. It is there in the minds of people who govern this world today.

Russians should research more about their ancestry. There were populations that spread out of Tarim valley to the steppe of Ukraine and central Asia, before the spread of Mongols.

Eventually all populations will mix - through genetic engineering or inter-marriage.

Indian population has absorbed different gene pools largely through inter-marriage.

The true egalitarian society is embodied in the Veda, which considers every human being same regardless of ancestry or color.

However the modern concept of nations is still largely based on ethnicity. It is wrong but thats the way it is.

reply to post by GargIndia


Russia needs to follow a very balanced east and west policy. trade and business is one thing but cultural mix is something much overpowering.

going by the genetic theory, the whole of human race came from the black man in africa. so if russians have any roots to central asia then that does not mean 2000 or 5000 years later they are going to fill up moscow with chinese and indians and make another mumbai or shanghai. thanks but no thanks!

i have been to india twice and in many ways it is a disgusting country especially when compared with the west when it comes to cleanliness, law and order, human rights and efficiency in everyday life. west should tell indian leaders to do few things in like one year and beyond that india will be isolated given the extremely low standards of living that its people (humans!) are made to live in. these few things do not require too much investment of efforts and funds. they just require implementation of rules. i have good knowledge about yoga, meditation, vedic philosphy etc. and can say confidently that indian have forgotten their own ancient practices and thus are suffering in dirty environment and gross struggle in everyday matters.

reply to post by victor7


Did I say you fill Moscow with Indians?

Russia can keep its identity while learning from others.

You did not answer my questions.

The conditions that Indians live in does not concern Russians much? It is a separate issue.

I agree that Indians have forgotten Veda and Vedic knowledge. Town planning, house construction etc. were part of Vedic knowledge that was taught to students in Gurukul (school). I am a student of Veda and you can ask me any question.

The Russians did not invest in India while every major industrial country has invested in India. Even France has several companies in India taking advantage of India's skills in software and manufacturing.

Boeing 787's cockpit was integrated in India and most of 787's software was written in India by HCL Tech. A large number of logic chips are designed in India for a variety of customers. I do not see any significant activity in case of Russia.

Russian exposure to India is limited to military sector, which is a highly politicized sector.

Russians lack vision. This type of criticism that you are offering is nothing but a sign of lack of vision. It is also a sign of lack of self-confidence.

reply to post by GargIndia


Most probably Russians did not invest in India is because Russian companies are not that competitive vis-a-vis western one's and hence no use running a weak horse. Also, Russia itself requires investment to build its infrastructure and develop new industries and retool the Soviet era inefficient machines.

Please do not throw the list of items that Indians did for Boeing and others. If Indians were that smart and creative then they would not have taken more than 30 years to complete (still incomplete!) their MBT tank and still not in production the LCA. How come Indians can write software for 787s and yet India cannot produce even a light to medium size plane to be competitive in the global markets. Brazil has Embarer what does India have?

I am critical of India because I want 15-20% of the humanity to raise its standards of living and join the league of self respect and belief.

reply to post by victor7


The reason why MBT and LCA or transport aircraft are not complete is due to gross inefficiency and corruption in the government sector. It is not due to lack of scientific or engineering talent.

The second equally strong reason is our army and airforce would not accept a home-grown product, as local companies are unable to fill swiss bank accounts.

Tatas have created a truck mounted gun with their own funds. They had to test the gun overseas as Government would not provide gun range to even a domestic company.

The public sector is highly politicized due to vote bank politics and is a breeding ground for corruption and inefficiency.

Compare this with private companies who have grown to international size without any support from the government.

All successful defence projects like Pinaka or Prithvi have heavy private sector involvement.

The public sector units (and the politicians) are SO afraid of the private sector that they scuttle all possibilities of sourcing from the private sector.

This is the sorry state of India's government.

The third reason is under-funding of projects and under-funding of critical labs.

There is nothing in a tank that cannot be made in India. However the tank should be made by Tata or Mahindra, the companies that have the scale and engineering talent.

The day Indian government realizes this, the problem of defence production will go away.

Russia is a culprit in the corruption in defence deals. I cannot give you evidence but Russians pay for defence deals in India.

reply to post by victor7


India's space program is in a better shape due to early private sector involvement in the space program.

Defence procurement has become a hotbed of corruption under the guise of "security".

However India's defence production is not the issue we are discussing.

It is funny that billions of Russian money just disappears in Cyprus; but I am yet to see any significant involvement by Russians in India (except a telecom company MTS). Others are minting money from work in India.

This despite Russia being present in India from 1950s.

I do not think Russians can create an isolationist paradise in Russia. Russians should look towards creating world scale companies in critical sectors like aviation, engineering, chemicals etc.

India should be a factor in Russia's planning. Who else?

reply to post by GargIndia


It is a very disgusting trait of Indians to blame population and government for every short coming in their society. Can't even make a AK-47 level of machine gun and yapping nonsense about Boeing 787s.

Russian money in Cyprus and Swiss is looted from the Russian government and thus cannot be openly or legally invested in other places. This money mostly rots in the hidden bank accounts.

Russia is not making any isolationist paradise. But Russia owes nothing to China and India who cannot control their population growth and similar other gross inefficiencies in the daily society. Other than energy prices, Russia itself is trying to heal from communist era economic decay and Yeltsin era total robbery and collapse of the Russian business house.

reply to post by victor7


When did you visit India? I am sure it was not in the last 10 years.

I blame the Government for valid reasons.
I do not blame the population. Did I.

You are still running away from my arguments.

You are right that your priority is to fix your own country. That is fine.

I am trying to tell you that Russians are bad investors. Russian money ends up getting stolen or in unproductive ventures. This is the reason Russia is so perennially dependent on natural resources.

I wish Russians well. Russia stood by India in its hour of need and I have no intention of saying bad things for Russia.

reply to post by victor7


Your point about AK-47 type machine gun.

Here is the link - en.wikipedia.org...

India has made huge progress between 1991 and 2012. During this time nominal GDP grew more than four time in US dollar terms.

India has existed as an independent entity for some 65 years (since 1947) after facing foreign rule and virtual slavery from 1100AD. It is taking time which is natural. A nation does not form by a declaration, but by collective trials and tribulations. Russia has paid in blood for its nation. India has paid some but more lies in future. I am sure India will emerge a strong country from its trial by fire.

I always felt a bond with Russia, and wanted to travel to Russia. You hide a strong distaste for India due to some reason which is beyond your statements. You must speak openly.

Indian people were not always poor. The Vedic Bharat was a very rich country. Rich countries often attract foreigners, and that is what happened to India. India saw waves of foreigners settling in India, specially after around 500 BC. This changed the composition of people, increased the population, and weakened the domestic polity.

I admire you for limiting emigration. I agree with you that emigration brings a lot of problems with it.

reply to post by GargIndia


I do have distaste for India because it has been lost in time, in a mess and further getting into more. However this distaste is not out of hate but because I want India to get better. My ways of tackling with issues is kind of high momentum and practical. I do not coddle and caress a spoiled situation.

Btw, I am not Russian, I am from South America. My beliefs are humanist kind. With receding western civilization, fast spreading fanatic Islam, and China and India still in the mess of a society for common person, I fear for the future of the human race. Time to improve even with little extra effort and more enforcement of discipline.

Originally posted by GargIndia
reply to post by victor7

 

Indian people were not always poor. The Vedic Bharat was a very rich country. Rich countries often attract foreigners, and that is what happened to India. India saw waves of foreigners settling in India, specially after around 500 BC. This changed the composition of people, increased the population, and weakened the domestic polity.

To not be able to thwart and get rid of the oppression for 100s or even thousand years shows some real weakness in the Indian man and collective will power of the populations. Basking in the glory of Vedic Bharats in present time is not practical at the very least. Even today I see more resolve and stern policies successfully conducted by small or even way small nations that India. Something very wrong in the culture........now don't blame the religion, government or population. Education levels are high in India so they do not need government to tell them every right thing to do.

reply to post by victor7


What a relief that you are not a Russian.
I take back all my questions to you as you are not in a position to answer.

I am not in a position to understand your political beliefs. So no point in taking this conversation further.

Thanks a lot.

reply to post by GargIndia


my political beliefs are centerist basically. only socialism i want is free healthcare for people. rest is folks should earn up their keeps. i also strongly believe that third world nations do not need 100s of billions in aid and loans, they can organize their affairs well and grow as economies and successful nations.


west is successful because rules made are implemented and thus followed. anyone throwing garbage on streets should be made to clean the streets for atleast one hour on the spot. similar for corruption by government officials who have main power in asia and other third world nations. caught in the wrong act and minimum jail time is 5 years. capitalism is a powerful and natural source of economic growth. however following crony version of it will not yield high results.

reply to post by GargIndia


Few more points to think on very strategically. Do not count on Russia to provide any military leverage to India or any other power now. At best Russia can provide weapons and some technical help here and there. As a military power, Russia is a spent force, hollow and weak barely able to sustain its own needs.

Secondly, China is on the verge of economic crisis of sorts. A country cannot just rely on labor price advantages for decade after decade. Now Chinese labor prices are catching up, western demand for goods will not that robust, invention of robotics will further negate Chinese production. It is likely, China might enter that spiral of economic slowdown like Japan in early 90s to today. Good news for India is Japan might rise again as a regional power and being a better friend of India, it may help keep Chinese adventures in check.

US will remain a leading military power and in the event of Chinese slow down, might rule the seas in Asia with more dominance. There is no match for the US Air Force.

Hence the morale of the developments is for nation like India to have better terms with US, Japan, EU etc. Commie corrupt powers like Russia, China have not really done much to inherently overhaul their economic systems. Vast gaps between few rich and majority poor have not helped the economies in general. When common man does not have enough money to buy production goods then any economic stimulus does not yield best results. Russia can hang on via the commodity prices and China can hope that demand from western nations remains on the upbeat.

Corruption and Crony capitalism can only go so much far.