The bloodline of Tubal the great, descendent of Cain

reply to post by no1smootha


It is very strange that the list of names when put side by side look or sound the same, so your saying Noah was actually tubal-Cain?

reply to post by Logarock


Noah was also a strange kid!

"Methuselah took a wife for his son Lamech, and she bore him a man child. The body of the babe was white as snow and red as a blooming rose, and the hair of his head and his long locks were white as wool, and his eyes like the rays of the sun. When he opened his eyes, he lighted up the whole house, like the sun, and the whole house was very full of light. And when he was taken from the hand of the midwife, he opened his mouth and praised the Lord of righteousness. His father Lamech was afraid of him, and fled, and came to his own father Methuselah. And he said to him: "I have begotten a strange son; he is not like a human being"

Essentially it looks like Noah was also a human/Elohim hybrid!

BTW white people did not exist on this planet until after the Elohim mated with earth born humans, before that everyone was black,brown, yellow or red

Originally posted by LUXUS
reply to post by Logarock

 

Noah was also a strange kid!

"Methuselah took a wife for his son Lamech, and she bore him a man child. The body of the babe was white as snow and red as a blooming rose, and the hair of his head and his long locks were white as wool, and his eyes like the rays of the sun. When he opened his eyes, he lighted up the whole house, like the sun, and the whole house was very full of light. And when he was taken from the hand of the midwife, he opened his mouth and praised the Lord of righteousness. His father Lamech was afraid of him, and fled, and came to his own father Methuselah. And he said to him: "I have begotten a strange son; he is not like a human being"

Essentially it looks like Noah was also a human/Elohim hybrid!

BTW white people did not exist on this planet until after the Elohim mated with earth born humans, before that everyone was black,brown, yellow or red

edit on 25-7-2013 by LUXUS because: (no reason given)

You forgot blue. Really it looks like abnormal size was the result whatever the race.

Originally posted by no1smootha
Many were the lifetimes
Of the son of Noah's brother
See his coat the ragged
Riches of the soul

~Incredible String Band

Where did Cain's wife come from?

She was of the per-adamic race, this Earth has had many "humans" we are just one type and the adamic race is just one type for example when you were at school you were probably shown an illustration of the evolution of humans starting with a crouched ape and ending with us, truth is we are not related to the ape and we only have 1% neanderthal dna at most so they are not our ancestors!

Originally posted by no1smootha

No, according to Josephus, In the Antiquities of the Jews, it is Seth's descendants who invented the wisdom of the heavenly bodies, and built the "pillars of the sons of Seth", two pillars inscribed with many scientific discoveries and inventions, notably in astronomy. They were built by Seth's descendants based on Adam's prediction that the world would be destroyed at one time by fire and another time by global flood, in order to protect the discoveries and be remembered after the destruction. One was composed of brick, and the other of stone, so that if the pillar of brick should be destroyed, the pillar of stone would remain, both reporting the ancient discoveries, and informing men that a pillar of brick was also erected. Josephus reports that the pillar of stone remained in the land of Siriad in his day.

The masonic tradition is that it was the children of Lamech who was a descendent of Cain who made these pillars.

There is also a story that Enoch with the help of his son Methuselah made those pillars.

Upon a triangular plate of gold, inlaid with many precious gems, he engraved the ineffable name of God, and sank the plate into one face of a cube of agate. None knew of the deposit of the precious treasure; and, that it might remain undiscovered, and survive the Flood, which it was known to Enoch would soon overwhelm the world in one vast sea of mire, he covered the aperture, and the stone that closed it and the great ring of iron used to raise the stone, with the granite pavement of his primitive temple. Then, fearing that all knowledge of the arts and sciences would be lost in the universal flood, he built two great columns upon a high hill-one of brass, to resist water, and one of granite, to resist fire. On the granite column was written in hieroglyphics a description of the subterranean apartments; on the one of brass, the rudiments of the arts and sciences.

Originally posted by no1smootha
The genetic line of Cain was all but destroyed save Tubal Cain, it was from him that the last remaining descendents of Cain came who were the god kings of antiquity. How did Tubal-cain survive the Flood sent by God to destroy the wicked if he wasn't on the Ark? If he didn't survive, why are we talking about his bloodline?

The masonic legend is that tubal-Cain and his son survived the flood and that hiram abiff was a later descendent of tubal Cain.

Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by LUXUS
reply to post by Logarock

 

Noah was also a strange kid!

"Methuselah took a wife for his son Lamech, and she bore him a man child. The body of the babe was white as snow and red as a blooming rose, and the hair of his head and his long locks were white as wool, and his eyes like the rays of the sun. When he opened his eyes, he lighted up the whole house, like the sun, and the whole house was very full of light. And when he was taken from the hand of the midwife, he opened his mouth and praised the Lord of righteousness. His father Lamech was afraid of him, and fled, and came to his own father Methuselah. And he said to him: "I have begotten a strange son; he is not like a human being"

Essentially it looks like Noah was also a human/Elohim hybrid!

BTW white people did not exist on this planet until after the Elohim mated with earth born humans, before that everyone was black,brown, yellow or red

edit on 25-7-2013 by LUXUS because: (no reason given)

You forgot blue. Really it looks like abnormal size was the result whatever the race.

Yes the race of the inner earth were/are supposed to be blue. Abnormal size can be assigned to the Elohim and also to their hybrid offspring.

Very good video. It helps to explain things. I was once a sheep, I didn't like to be a sheep. I was trained to be a goat but the ways of the goat were not who I am. I did not like to control the sheep, many of the sheep were my friends. I then went on to be an ox, a leader of men, for many years. That was all right but I got tired of their desires to steer me in the wrong direction because of their desires. I learned that being an ox is frustrating. I learned the way of the lion also, the necessity of trimming the flock and maintaining control over them.

So back to school I go, learning from the others about this reality. Learning more of what is needed for the next step into finding who I am. I am once again an observer till I reach the completion of my training. I have learned to work with the sheep, fend off the goat, understand the ox, and appreciate the concerns of the lion. Many of these kinds of people don't understand that nature makes their existence possible but yet they all try to destroy it and disregard the rights of the other beings of this world. I find that problematic. I would give the goats the worst score in this destruction, their domineering personalities cause most of the destruction to the earth. The way of the goat is not confined to Masons. It is taught to many people. Their major weapons are Ad Hominum and controlling others by using peer pressure to make others do things so they cannot challenge them. I understand this technique well, it is used by governments and the legal system extensively to control people.

The video's conclusion is right though, if we destroy the present system, the same kind of system or maybe even worse will take over. Unless someone or something can steer us in the right direction. Soon there will be a big change, the earth will cause the lowering of the population and will target through many ways the ones that are in control and ruining our world in their quest for domination. I am just an observer now, I cannot get involved.

I am interested in what the future of this reality can teach me now. I love mysteries. I like evaluating motives and predicting outcomes, usually by half way through any TV show, I can predict what is coming. Once in a while, the plot on a script does take an unexpected turn and amazes me though. Rarely does this occur but the writers sometime get creative instead of following the same ways of those before them. This makes it impossible for me to accurately predict all the possible outcomes of this reality.

If I understand correctly from the video, it was considered as the time of Atlantis up till the flood?

Is it accepted that the original Masons, as it mentioned Nimrod and the Tower of Babel, were the cyclopean stone masons who built all the ancient masonery that today we still cannot immitate or replicate?

I was pleased to learn so much about Cain's line and Tubal Cain's role. It has, since a child, bothered me about God's actual nature and behaviour towards the people he created. Some people consider that man was created as a servant to God, but as he already had angels, man's role didn't add up to me. Also as Angels had the power over our deaths I couldn't see them as subservient to man in God's eyes.

Gods attitude in the Bible to Adam and Eve seems odd in that he appears to have felt threatened by their gaining knowledge and his odd comment 'they will be like us', whether that is allegorical etc but a good father wants his kids to have knowledge and the punishment of kicking them out for it it utterly unreasonable and doesn't make sense. Through this rash meaness, suddenly we know nothing more about God's garden which seems strange, because it would appear that at one time God was physically on the earth and walked in his garden in the evenings.
His behaviour though never really changed towards mankind.

The biggest point I have always struggled with though is about Lucifer. I remember getting the cane at school for asking why, if Lucifer was the devil, was God so friendly with him yet so mean to his faithful human servant. I read in Blavatsky that Lucifer was the first Angel to descend and was the bringer of astral light from which all was created. He was obviously a trustworthy angel and, apart from being told in Bible study that a battle took place between the angels, I can't remember reading about angels being kicked out of heaven having fought God in the Old Testament.

I have always believed that the first part of Genesis is purely a group of tales that were borrowed, cobbled together and adapted from other cultures such as the Babbalonians, in order to start the worship of one God as a means of separating a group of people from mainstream paganism.

This has been one of the most thought provoking reads I have had for a long time. Thank you for such an interesting and enjoyable thread. If anyone can shed some light on my questions I would be interested.

Something else occurred to me about the two different types of people you mentioned.

Its sad it seems to be such a division between the belief taught about Lucifer and Cain and the belief about God and the priesthood.

Cain and Lucifer have always had a bad press but your thread opens this up because we go back to the original concept of the Gods and 'God' himself at the point of man's creation.

Is it ignorance and dependence on God that God originally created us for? Was he really pi--ed when his creation started wanting to be independent and perhaps walked away. The skills man needed to survive life on earth, God himself didn't teach us, apparently he didn't want us to learn them. So why did he create such a world with dangerous animals, complex weather systems and a planet that is not averse to having a major shake periodically. Was the Garden of Eden, God's home, merely a safe haven and man was supposed to work there?

Christ's role in this is also interesting because he works to show a different side to God which was not the side shown to the Hebrews, where he impaled them for not giving up their old ways and following him blindly. Moses was probably terrified of him.

Or is it that nothing is one on its own, one dimentional or unique and God has two sides and the concept of the devil is his otherside. There are so very few characters that had contact with God himself and it was never just a 'Hello' it was go do a job for him.

Strangely enough we are taught that the farmer was a later development of mankind and man herded animals before he settled and managed the land, but Cain was growing and farming when he left Eden. So we still have not got to the truth behind the myth, but its somewhere there and Cain's role is probably an important part of it.

Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by ElohimJD
reply to post by LUXUS

 

Legend has it Tubal Cain's daughter Naamah was married to Noah's son Ham and therefore was on the Ark. She was the mother of Cush the first "god-king" in the post flood world at Babel.

It is through Naamah that the bloodline of Cain survived the deluge.

This means Nimrod would be the direct blood great-grandson of Tubal Cain himself.

Interresting thread, great stories.

God Bless,

edit on 18-7-2013 by ElohimJD because: (no reason given)

At Palenque, tomb of king, he records that he descends from the "first mother" that had survived the great destruction around 3000bc. His son was born in her image...close to 9feet tall with 6 fingers and toes. Sons name was Kon Ballum (forgive spelling).

Much more info in the book "Forest of Kings" written by schooled experts of the highest order in Maya studies. Considers among a handful of experts recognized world wide as such.

Some of you that want to tie Cains line with Masons......check out the famous Palenque tomb. It was certainly constructed by master masons.

Originally posted by Shiloh7
Is it accepted that the original Masons, as it mentioned Nimrod and the Tower of Babel, were the cyclopean stone masons who built all the ancient masonery that today we still cannot immitate or replicate?

The Babylonean Ziggurats are not Cyclopean masonry because they were constructed largely of mud bricks not undressed irregular limestone as found in examples such as that found in ancient Mycenea.

reply to post by Shiloh7


It is worth remembering that the angels are the sons of god (Bene Elohim) ie the descendents of the Elohim.

Humans are known as the sons of man (ben-'adam) ie the descendents of Adam.

Since Cain was not the son of Adam but was the son of one of the Elohim what would that make him?

reply to post by no1smootha


Sorry, the point I was making was about the huge blocks of stone used in the area such as at Balbek which are still unexplainable.

I take your point about the buildings being mud brick which man can manage. I was trying to make a point about the difference between the cyclopean buildings such as at Balbek which is thought to have originally been a pagan temple or( a landing stage by Sitchen) etc and the obvious constructions by man. What links the two though for me is the knowledge that was still around when pyramids and complicated alighments and mathematics were used, which has taken us some time to develop. It just seems to me that one group built the cyclopean structures and another the later structures and then the wheels fell off for some time.

reply to post by LUXUS


I think until we can discover a way of clarifying whether there were giants on the world, whether they existed at a time when organically things were able to grow to huge proportions, and what the difference between life before the flood, when the bible says the earth was 'full' and after it, we have a mystery which is enthralling.

We can all make an educated guess as to what mankind faced after a flood but sometime in the past there has clearly been a cut-off period for technology. The ancient builders were well aware of building to accommodate earthquakes so were far more advanced than many today wish to accept. For me it boils down to either magic to move stuff from within ones head or technology to move stuff. The bible gives us miracles and sudden destruction of cities so which it is, I wait with interest to find out.

Originally posted by Shiloh7
I think until we can discover a way of clarifying whether there were giants on the world...

The same way we do with any other species, fossil records.

reply to post by Shiloh7


The book of enoch spells it out, Azazel teaches the Elohim/Human hybrids the "eternal secrets" and they start to misuse this knowledge which results in the world being full of sin and bloodshed. God has to send a flood to wipe out the the watchers and the knowledge of this technology. The flood is mostly successful however tubal Cain survives with his son and others have written the Science in stone to insure it is not wiped out by the flood but now in the hands of the few.

Thou seest what Azazel hath done, who hath taught all unrighteousness on earth and revealed the eternal secrets which were (preserved) in heaven, which 7 men were striving to learn: And Semjaza, to whom Thou hast given authority to bear rule over his associates. And they have gone to the daughters of men upon the earth, and have slept with the 9 women, and have defiled themselves, and revealed to them all kinds of sins. And the women have 10 borne giants, and the whole earth has thereby been filled with blood and unrighteousness.

And again the Lord said to Raphael: 'Bind Azazel hand and foot, and cast him into the darkness: and make an opening 5 in the desert, which is in Dudael, and cast him therein. And place upon him rough and jagged rocks, and cover him with darkness, and let him abide there for ever, and cover his face that he may 6,7 not see light. And on the day of the great judgement he shall be cast into the fire. And heal the earth which the angels have corrupted, and proclaim the healing of the earth, that they may heal the plague, and that all the children of men may not perish through all the secret things that the 8 Watchers have disclosed and have taught their sons. And the whole earth has been corrupted 9 through the works that were taught by Azazel: to him ascribe all sin.'

Again like in the garden of Eden God is presented as someone who does not want man to have knowledge of certain things. Not only this but after the flood he reduces mans life expectancy to a maximum of 120 years.

Originally posted by ElohimJD
reply to post by LUXUS

 

Legend has it Tubal Cain's daughter Naamah was married to Noah's son Ham and therefore was on the Ark. She was the mother of Cush the first "god-king" in the post flood world at Babel.

It is through Naamah that the bloodline of Cain survived the deluge.

This means Nimrod would be the direct blood great-grandson of Tubal Cain himself.

Interresting thread, great stories.

God Bless,

edit on 18-7-2013 by ElohimJD because: (no reason given)

The Genesis Rabba midrash lists Naamah, the daughter of Lamech and sister of Tubal-Cain, as the wife of Noah, as does the 11th-century Jewish commentator Rashi in his commentary on Sefer Bereishis 4:22.

Laurence Gardener stated in his book "genesis of the grail kings" that both Ham and Japhet were the sons of tubal Cain whilst Steiner states:

only Tubal-Cain and his son, the sole survivors of the glorious and gigantic family, came out alive. The wife of Ham, second son of Noah, thought the son of Tubal-Cain handsomer than the sons of men, and he became progenitor of Nimrod, who taught his brethren the art of hunting, and founded Babylon. Adoniram, the descendant of Tubal-Cain, seemed called by God to lead the militia of the free men, connecting the sons of fire with the sons of thought, progress, and truth.

Originally posted by Shiloh7
reply to post by no1smootha

 

Sorry, the point I was making was about the huge blocks of stone used in the area such as at Balbek which are still unexplainable.

I take your point about the buildings being mud brick which man can manage. I was trying to make a point about the difference between the cyclopean buildings such as at Balbek which is thought to have originally been a pagan temple or( a landing stage by Sitchen) etc and the obvious constructions by man. What links the two though for me is the knowledge that was still around when pyramids and complicated alighments and mathematics were used, which has taken us some time to develop. It just seems to me that one group built the cyclopean structures and another the later structures and then the wheels fell off for some time.

Knowledge has been gained, then lost...then rediscovered...then lost again, the cycle repeats endlessly. The tapestry of our culture hangs by a tenuous thread that threatens to unravel when the slightest tension is applied. In Works and Days by Hesiod, he describes the ages of man from Gold to Iron (a somewhat pessimistic assessment of humanity as each age has degenerated from the last). The age I would like to discuss is that which Hesiod (and now modern archeology calls the Bronze age (the cultures that are contemporary with Cyclopean architecture).

[140] But when earth had covered this generation also -- they are called blessed spirits of the underworld by men, and, though they are of second order, yet honour attends them also -- Zeus the Father made a third generation of mortal men, a brazen race, sprung from ash-trees [meliai]; and it was in no way equal to the silver age, but was terrible and strong. They loved the lamentable works of Ares and deeds of violence; they ate no bread, but were hard of heart like adamant, fearful men. Great was their strength and unconquerable the arms which grew from their shoulders on their strong limbs. Their armour was of bronze, and their houses of bronze, and of bronze were their implements: there was no black iron. These were destroyed by their own hands and passed to the dank house of chill Hades, and left no name: terrible though they were, black Death seized them, and they left the bright light of the sun.

This ties in with the story of Tubal-Cain, he being "an instructor of every forger in bronze and iron" (Genesis 4:22) and also with Hiram Abiff, "a widow's son of the tribe of Naphtali, and his father was a man of Tyre, a worker in brass: and he was filled with wisdom, and understanding, and cunning to work all works in brass." (1 Kings 7:13–14). The technology of metallurgy would put cultures that acquired it at considerable advantage to those who did not because they would be able to forge superior weaponry and also strong tools that can be used to create architecture on a massive scale (and fortresses were then needed to defend cities against invaders who might also have such weaponry as described above). The development of metal working would also make cultures that had sources of copper or tin or other metals used in making strong alloys economically wealthy.

Before the Greek Dark ages ~1200 BCE it is known from material culture finds that there was extensive trade between mainland Greeks (Mycenae), the Cretans (Minoans), the Etruscans, the Canaanites (Phoenicians, builders of Baalbek), Anatolia (Hittites), the Cycladean cultures, the Egyptians, and the Sumerians. The gradual collapse of the Bronze age was marked by extensive warfare that can be seen in the archeological and historical record in the destruction of many of the ancient city states (the fall of Troy and invasion of "Sea Peoples"). The political instability correlates to the Greek Dark Ages, and this event also weakened the Egyptians and Hittites. In the resulting power vacuum, a number of Phoenician cities rose as significant maritime powers.

Therefore my argument is that the technology that lead to the flourish of an ancient world economy was nearly lost (and which was partially responsible for the near destruction of many cultures of the Meditteranean) was that of metallurgy. The ancient stories of the cyclops, who were said to be the blacksmiths of the gods in addition to being credited for cyclopean masonry but there was also a connection to the Ancient Mysteries.

Walter Burkert among others suggests that the archaic groups or societies of lesser gods mirror real cult associations:"It may be surmised that smith guilds lie behind Cabeiri, Idaian Dactyloi, Telchines, and Cyclopes." Given their penchant for blacksmithing, many scholars believe the legend of the Cyclopes' single eye arose from an actual practice of blacksmiths wearing an eyepatch over one eye to prevent flying sparks from blinding them in both eyes.

(to be continued...)

reply to post by no1smootha


In India they call them the four yugas however some have suggested the sphinx was constructed during the age of Leo yet archeologists maintain that there was no use of bronze in those times, just copper tools.



Tubal Cain may have been the first to experiment with making meteorite iron alloys, there are also masonic legends that talk about that?

According to legend, whoever possesses the Holy Lance and understands the powers it serves, holds in his hands the destiny of the world, for good or for evil. As in any legend, we begin at the dawn of time. We start with a man named Tubal-Cain, who was born to the seventh generation of Adam and the last generation of Cain, the world's first murderer. The story goes that Tubal-Cain prayed to God for a new metal with which to forge a mighty weapon. God immediately answered him by dropping a flaming meteorite nearby. Tubal-Cain used the meteoric iron to make a lance that would never rust and would always stay exceptionally sharp

www.65media.com...

Metallurgy would have been a branch of alchemy in ancient times, I suggest that rather then saying the knowledge that was lost was of a metallurgical nature it might be more accurate to say it was of an alchemical nature.

reply to post by LUXUS
Most Archeologists maintain that the Sphinx was built ~4500 years ago (it isn't mentioned in Old Kingdom inscriptions which would be surprising if it were as old as some claim), which is in the timeframe of the Bronze age. It is known that the Egyptians used both copper and bronze tools for building their monuments.

I think it is highly probably that the ancients first made use of meteoric iron because it didn't require smelting, Tubal-Cain (the living embodiment of early metal workers of the bronze age who was said to have also worked in iron) was said to have worked both bronze and iron well before the iron age. I don't know enough about the specifics of the Spear of Destiny to comment, but many examples of weapons made of meteoric iron do exist including a dagger found in the tomb of Tutankhamen.

I agree that metallurgy is intimately bound together with alchemy in the ancient times, and that the knowledge was kept secret, only to be shared with other alchemists or metalworkers. When I say that knowledge was "lost" in certain regions, this could be because of resource scarcity possibly related to disruption of trade routes. It is well documented that ancient Egyptians obtained most of their precious metals from trade with their neighbors.

reply to post by no1smootha



I personally don't believe the knowledge that was lost was simple metallurgy ie how to extract copper/tin from ore to make bronze, I think it was a little more esoteric. Actually I believe we still have not recovered this knowledge even today.

In the ancient world they believed every planet gave forth a tone and the combination of all these tones was called the music of the spheres,likewise it was believed that every metal had a "sound"