Snowden (It's not about Snowden)

Here's a bit it irony for you: All around the world, and including the citizens of the United States, it seems a majority does NOT want a one world government, or a world police. This strongly suggests that we want separate nations, separate laws, and citizen loyalty to each his own country.

Along comes Snowden revealing to the world what his own government is doing, and he is applauded worldwide and nominated for a peace prize.

Now, in no way am I saying that what Snowden did was right or wrong. I personally applaud the man for risking it all in order to stand by his own convictions.

But, exactly what is it that YOU people want? And, can you have it both ways? If you believe that we are one world and one people, then yes, Snowden is hero, and actions such as his would move us to a one world government and police state.

However, if you feel that many nations are better than one, then wouldn't you want your government to do everything in its power to protect YOU? If listening in on communications (even if it's from one American to another) yields one terrorist plot to kill YOUR children, YOUR neighbors, YOUR fellow citizens, then shouldn't Snowden have kept his issues IN-house, so to speak?

Let's be clear, this thread isn't about Snowden. It's about making up our minds on what WE want for mankind: One world - one people, or many nations looking out for its own citizens, and then aligning ourselves in accordance to what Snowden did.

Again, a one world Government, One people, must mean that Snowden is a hero. A world of many nations must mean that Snowden is a traitor to his own country.

Which is it?

reply to post by jiggerj


It's not my governments job to protect me. That's my job.
My government's job is to protect my countries interest on a nation level, and to make sure it's citizens are not being taken advantage off, due to laws or restrictions which are unconstitutional.

reply to post by jiggerj


Why can't we have a bit of both? Why does it have to be one or the other? How about allowing diversity with separate nations (visualize as tribes with own rituals, values, rules) as well as being one people by agreeing to disagree - not interfering with sovereignty?

But you do make a good point in that it does come down to that. We have politicians preaching respect diversity but behaving in a way that does anything but. Our convictions do not have to be theirs and vise versa. It's uncomfortable to see people eat dogs for me and I definitely don't believe in a god that thinks women are below men but I am not the least bit threatened by those who do things that I don't agree with - unless it will cause direct harm to me or those I care for. I'm sure others feel the same way about our lifestyle. Live and let live.

We are seeing terrorism because of our interference in other countries business. So to do business in their business we get an extreme collectivist culture pushing back on an individualistic culture. In the end we have to spy on each other as a consequence of being where we shouldn't have been to begin with. And it can be stopped by our leaders saying "we were wrong in this and that - and were going to stop sticking our noses into everyone's business". It might not stop right away but the longer we keep at it the more generations it angers and the more we will see things spiral out of control.

Don't look at snowden as hero or otherwise. See it as a wake up call that it has come to this and then do our part to wind it back down.

reply to post by jiggerj


The two ways you laid out wouldn't be my choice.

Just because I think that Snowden is a hero does not mean I want a one world government, because I don't.

I do agree with you on one issue though. It isn't Snowden that we should be paying attention to. It is his message.
Remember don't shoot the messenger.

Protect us from what?

The boogey men they create and fund?

reply to post by Dianec

as well as being one people by agreeing to disagree - not interfering with sovereignty?

History shows we just can't do this. Governments have always been in everybody else's business - the more powerful, the more intrusive.

Originally posted by Diisenchanted
reply to post by jiggerj

 

The two ways you laid out wouldn't be my choice.

Just because I think that Snowden is a hero does not mean I want a one world government, because I don't.

I do agree with you on one issue though. It isn't Snowden that we should be paying attention to. It is his message.
Remember don't shoot the messenger.

And, what is that message? I'll tell you (lol). The message is that the U.S. government is acting like a world police force. And I believe it has the backing of a few other countries (as long as we share the info).

reply to post by jiggerj


Well...since our government didn't let us in on their surveillance plan, and that they've joined in partnership with the private sector to watch over and protect our well-being, I'd say (at the very least) they've prevented the citizens of their right to have a candid, straight-forward democratic debate on this issue. Dependency, compliance - no thanks!

Throughout history we know of the many incidents of when power was abused - transparency is the only answer that keeps anyone honest.

I think for the most part, people claim that they don't want ANY Government control over anything.

Then of course, there's a natural disaster, and they go running to the Government for assistance.....

If there was ever an Extinction Level Event, the survivors would be moaning about why the Government is too slow to help them.

Originally posted by clook
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Throughout history we know of the many incidents of when power was abused - transparency is the only answer that keeps anyone honest.

LOL You just hit on why transparency is impossible. The people in power can say it, but they don't want it. No government ever has.

reply to post by jiggerj


Yep...those in power hide and manipulate the truth as they rob citizens of their civil liberties. The governments partnership with the communications industry is creating a surveillance society that's certainly ominous for our future. I believe Snowden is a whistleblower for exposing the violations of the U.S. Constitution and the rights of American citizens, and not a traitor. It's my understanding that he disclosed the existence of the program and not any details that would place anyone in harm's way. James Clapper lied to Congress - which is a felony, and other top US. officials have made statements that were false, misleading and erroneous. More revelations are still coming according to Greenwald.