A concept (Freemasons and "Satan")

reply to post by SomeoneWatching

Freemasonry is speculative, but there are still operative ones out there. We are about building ourselves (remember speculative).

They're disconnected from their craft.

I disagree.

They think they build by ordering other people to do it, but it isn't the same thing.

Incorrect.

Boredom leads to satanic rituals.

What part of our ritual is Satanic?

The lie is that they have power over other people.

Where is this ever said in Freemasonry?

And that satanic (secret) rituals give them that power.

So in case you want power, you must partake in these satanic (secret) rituals.

What rituals are these?

The power granted by these (secret) rituals - by bowing down to Lucifer - is fleeting.

We don't worship or bow down to Lucifer. Next!

Why is war a goal? Why is destruction a goal?

These are not goals of Freemasonry.

The control of money is absolute.

And Freemasonry has no part in this.

You must deal with the billions. Billions waking up.

An Isis tattoo on Rihanna? Do you think we're stupid? Well, yeah, you do.

This has nothing to do with Freemasonry.

And they don't pay it.

Then don't take the loan.

This really is a nonsensical rant. You don't prove anything from your title and your thread doesn't tie anything together.

reply to post by SomeoneWatching

Can you name these leaders? And prove they were actually Masons?

In fact, every time a Freemason was President of the United States, some monument, statue or museum full of Freemason and other secret societies' symbolism gets erected.

Incorrect.

Back in 1800 the capital of the United States was erected according to these symbols and ratios.

Also, the Federal Reserve, responsible for the credit of the nation since 1913, was set up during a Freemason's (Taft) administration.

Was Taft solely responsible?

How does Freemasonry have nothing to do with it? It's all incidental?

Just because a Mason may have been President when a bill was passed doesn't mean it "Freemasonry was involved" as that insinuates the Fraternity as an institution is involved. I mean, just because I do something doesn't make it Masonic or that the Fraternity had any say. I mean just because I'm a Mason doesn't mean my job is Masonic, or that my truck is Masonic, and so on.

I do not know any of the rites beyond the initiation, which pledges allegiance to "the Light", unless my sources are wrong.

So you're making accusations based on your lack of knowledge? That seems reckless.

We don't "pledges allegiance to 'the Light'..." and your sources are very wrong. I've sat through a ton of initiations and nothing I've seen ties or binds us to Satan or Lucifer.

Like almost everyone else, I know only what little has been shown by the Freemasons' themselves.

What would you like to know? I run a blog and I disclose quite a bit.

I do know that anyone who believes in a superior being can be a Freemason, so that doesn't rule out Satanists/Luciferians.

Actually that would since he was a created being and thus cannot be a "supreme being".

But the fact that they must be kept secret makes me suspicious.

There's nothing wrong with secrets as everyone has them.

www.travelingtemplar.com...

And since Satanists can join the fraternity...

This is your assumption.

...they can carry out their rituals in private and the other brothers would never know.

Then how is related to Freemasonry?

So they might have the "protection" of the lodge without the consent of the other members.

This isn't how Freemasonry works.

reply to post by SomeoneWatching

Well if you don't feel right about it then don't join, it's a voluntary organization for a reason.

Even worse is being kept in the dark as to what's happening in higher degrees.

Freemasonry is a progressive science and the "higher degrees" are not superior to the 3rd degree. Plus, thank you for this display of entitlement syndrome.

It's literally worldwide.

So?

I'm trying to find out whether it's possible that high-ranking, 33rd degree freemasons, who rose to prominent positions, might be involved in activities which if disclosed, might have killed their reputation.

The 33rd degree in particular or Scottish in general is not the sole authority or superior body in Freemasonry. There are many other rites and orders.

She also says that J. Bennet Johnston, a freemason, told her he was an alien.

Oh she sounds extremely credible.

Also, I think it's worth remembering that the Panic of 1907, which partly prompted the beginning of the Fed, occurred under Ted Roosevelt's tenure, who was also a freemason.

What evidence do you have that the Fraternity caused any of this? Correlation doesn't equal causation.

...I think that unless we can get the records of discussions between members of Taft's and Roosevelt's lodges while the Federal Reserve System was being set up, we cannot tell for sure whether they were involved or not.

Your paranoia isn't reason to trample our rights.

Taft's Lodge = Kilwinning Lodge #356 (Cincinatti, OH)

Teddy's Lodge = Matinecock Lodge #806 (Oyster Bay, NY)

House of The Temple: construction started in Washington DC, in 1911, under Taft.

Except Taft had no authority or say on the construction of the building.

Masonic temple: construction started in Washington DC, in 1903, under Ted Roosevelt.

Which one?

Prince Hall Masonic Temple: Built in 1922, under Warren Harding.

Which one?

Washington Monument: construction started in 1848, under James Polk.

Did he have a say on it?

There are numerous other buildings erected during freemasons' administrations.

Not every building erected during a President's administration, Mason or not, had a say on its construction.

...feel above the law...

Except that goes against our Charges.

Originally posted by Saurus

Originally posted by this_is_who_we_are

Question:
"How do we overthrow the corrupt system you describe?"

Answer:

But we must all do it at the same time for it to work. How would one go about coordinating something like that?

The fact that he's there means he supports the cause. Maybe he had sweaty armpits.

or maybe the best place to hide at the time, was in plain sight?

As someone who has read 23 of the 24 chapters of "Born In Blood"... I can say this:
"Freemason(s)" are not your ordinary community organizers.
I refused to read the last chapter because the conclusion I drew for myself was not very comforting.
When it comes to usurping... the Freemason(s) has a more knowledgeable experience.
My point is... this at times can be seen as devilish and/or evil.
However .. its better them than someone else!
Particularly... tyrants, fanatics, and the ignorant.

The satanic part is cleverly devised to instruct only and simply that at times it's better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven.


Reign in hell... by simply knowing!

A servant in heaven will acquire beauty, strength and wisdom.
Thereafter it serves them well when confronting thread trolls and fishers like myself.

On a more kinder note... try and impress a Master with courtesy and respect and with a fair judgment rather than bash the whole order.

Reiterating the same old tired accusations about Freemasonry...

Is it that time of year again?

Accusations with no proof provided...as usual. If you're going to accuse good men of evil actions it might be useful to provide something that might vaguely, I don't know, resemble proof?

I'm not a mason. But oddly enough, I know enough to know that they're essentially good men, who do good works.

As with any human organization, there will always be bad apples among the good. That it's so rare speaks to their credit.

Devil worship? Really? Can't you come up with something with a bit more validity? You sound like the medieval
catholic church, and Phillip Le Bel... What's next? Torture and burning at the stake?

one of my relations when asked why the freemasons were asked to lay the foundation stone for the statue of liberty stated no other organization has done more to free men from ignorance & tyrany .

he laid the foundation stone for the statue of liberty born a scotsman he went on to become soverign grand inspector general genesee lodge 214 .

i wonder what he would think of america today are you less ignorant or free

Originally posted by SomeoneWatching
being kept in the dark as to what's happening in higher degrees.

This is one of the more common anti-Masonic mistakes. The "higher degrees" belong to completely separarte organizations with no authority over regular ol' three-degree Masonry; in fact, the blue lodge has control over them.

The power of freemasonry I refer to is that it's a close-knit society. It's literally worldwide.

It's actually a patchwork of local organizations which may or may not be on good terms with one another.

I'm trying to find out whether it's possible that high-ranking, 33rd degree freemasons, who rose to prominent positions, might be involved in activities which if disclosed, might have killed their reputation.

Sure, it's possible, strictly speaking. It's also possible that the same is true of non-Masons. Freemasonry is completely unnecessary for this.

Specifically, I'm thinking of Gerald Ford and the allegations of Cathy O'Brien, for example, that he was involved with sexual mind slaves.

It should be mentioned, then, that repressed memory therapy is viewed with extreme skepticism among the mainstream psychiatric community, that not a single claim of Satanic ritual abuse has ever been substantiated, and that even the conspiracy theorist community has found her claims self-contradictory and unsubstantiated.

Taft was president from 1909-1913. The Federal Reserve System was born inside Jekyll Island in November 1910, hence while Taft was president.

Its long legislative battle, however, was largely during Wilson's presidency. Its sponsors were not Masons.

Also, I think it's worth remembering that the Panic of 1907, which partly prompted the beginning of the Fed, occurred under Ted Roosevelt's tenure, who was also a freemason.

Sure. And the Great Depression began under Hoover, a non-Mason. And the Great Recession began under Bush, a non-Mason. Each has resulted in free-market intervention as extensive as the Federal Reserve.

These might all be "coincidences", but I think that unless we can get the records of discussions between members of Taft's and Roosevelt's lodges while the Federal Reserve System was being set up, we cannot tell for sure whether they were involved or not.

Once again, holes in the historical record are not a license to speculate. Moreover, Roosevelt quite often spoke of the lodge as a haven from politics.

About the buildings, I don't think that you don't know which buildings I'm talking about.

There are a lot of Masonic buildings, and buildings assumed to be Masonic. You can't possibly expect me to look up all of them to see which ones coincide with your theory.

House of The Temple: construction started in Washington DC, in 1911, under Taft.

Dedicated under Wilson; not funded by taxpayers.

Masonic temple: construction started in Washington DC, in 1903, under Ted Roosevelt.

Not funded by taxpayers.

Prince Hall Masonic Temple: Built in 1922, under Warren Harding.

Warren Harding's Grand Lodge did not recognize Prince Hall Masons at the time. Not funded by taxpayers.

Washington Monument: construction started in 1848, under James Polk.

Dedicated in 1885, under Arthur. Also, not the Masonic memorial to Washington, that's a different building.

I'm also interested in the Roosevelt-Truman period (both freemasons). They set up the CIA, which a decade later was experimenting in mass trauma-based mind control.

How is a President responsible for what happens a decade after he's gone in an agency he creates?

This is all very "light" on evidence. It's mostly circumstantial or based on testimony. This is why I said it's a CONCEPT.

That's fine, but expect your CONCEPT to encounter criticism, especially when it doesn't match up with personal experience from actual participants.

A concept that freemasonry, secrecy and the relative power freemasons have in comparison with the non-freemason population

The concept doesn't exist in Freemasonry.

can lead some freemasons to get bored, or feel above the law, and partake in strange or criminal activities

I just don't see what benefir Freemasonry offers. You can do everything you mentioned without Freemasonry; if anything, adding a superfluous organization is a liability. No actual criminal conspiracy has ever said, "You know what we need? Outsiders."

which I called "Satanic" because I think there is a belief in a higher being which fits the Lucifer idea.

It also fits the idea of Jesus Christ, the name in which it is most often expressed. Just because it "fits" doesn't mean it's true.

reply to post by OnTheLevel213


BE GONE! Bringing facts and truth into a conversation like this? Bah! Those silly things have no place here!

We are discussing how everything that is not understood must be satanic!

For evidence, I bring "phone company math" impossible to understand and quite obviously Satanic in nature.

I rest my case.

Originally posted by this_is_who_we_are

Question:
"How do we overthrow the corrupt system you describe?"

Answer:

But we must all do it at the same time for it to work. How would one go about coordinating something like that?

Do you understand the irony of your two questions here?

All of those with their hands up were coordinated against overthrowing the "corrupt" Jewish economic system.

reply to post by Pinocchio

What exactly are we usurping?

There is not Satanic part.

Originally posted by geobro
i wonder what he would think of america today are you less ignorant or free

Less free, IMO. Most of America is nothing more than "cheerful robots" to quote CW Mills.

The ignorance of the masses is the biggest problem. They don't know who Freemasons are, I'm sure 90% of the people don't know their history or the ideals they represent. They have read a few youtube comments and immediately concluded that the Freemasons just want to conquer the world and many of the AMERICANS do not realize that some of the most important men in the American history were Freemasons and 'I think' 9 of the signers of the Declaration of Independence were Freemasons.

Most recently I had a discussion with some friends about the Jay Z and Kanye and Rihanna type of Illluminati conspiracy and the fact that most likely they are not part of any secret group trying to rule the world but rather they "unintentionally" present themselves that way because of the sake of gaining publicity and as a form of some marketing trick. But they just made fun of me, nothing more. But since you can not debate with ignorant people, your only choice is to withdraw from the discussion.
So that is one of the main reasons that made me come to this forum.

Hm, I don't think I've ever been so questioned or corrected before.

Thank you for the insight. Perhaps my concept is indeed totally inaccurate, like network dude said...

So, freemasons just build monuments to honor each other, because they can? No satanic conspiracy?

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
Superior ≠ Supreme. Masons MUST believe in a Supreme Being that created all that is. Satan ≠ supreme being. Geddit?

I do get it, that is exactly why it can't be ruled out.

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
Why would Satanists join a fraternity focused on (among other things) praising the Almighty (by whatever particular descriptor an individual Mason might use), doing good works in their community and beyond and improving themselves?

Where's the sense?

Well, these people tend to lie a lot, you see. And when people find out, they tend to be called "evil". So they have no problem in living a dual life and in fact that might be part of the "rush". That's why I worry.

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
"The "protection" of the lodge"??? Sorry but what orifice are you plumbing for that goodie? Is this something else your 'sources' dropped in your lap?

Fitz

It might not be protection, but if you even identify yourselves to each other as soon as you meet, it must be important to make known you're a freemason. It must create some kind of empathy that is shared through the network.

Originally posted by KSigMason

Back in 1800 the capital of the United States was erected according to these symbols and ratios.

I don't get it. Is it wrong to assume that freemasons had a say on the design of the city and many of its buildings? They seem to be particularly influential during that period, in that region. You also, ostensibly, build stuff and have a penchant for obelisks.

reply to post by JohnnyJohn4578

www.travelingtemplar.com...

reply to post by SomeoneWatching

It's something that you can research to find out more clearly. Also, not every Mason, President or not, doesn't have a say onto the construction of the building.

Here is an excerpt from my blog:

Conspiracy theorists allege that it was Masons who designed the street layout of Washington DC and in that design created intricate designs to create certain symbols. What are these symbols they say? According to the theorist there are Satanic symbols placed in the street design which proves we Masons are really followers of Satan. I always get a good chuckle out of this when someone approaches me with this one.

Here are the facts. George Washington appointed Pierre Charles L'Enfant to design Washington DC, which was established in 1790 when an act of Congress authorized a federal district along the Potomac River and conveniently situated between the northern and southern states.

Thomas Jefferson had created a sketch of the city comprised of a square grid street system. L'Enfant took this design further and applied radials upon. From each of these radials stemmed streets that would shoot diagonally across the city intersecting the grid system. L'Enfant placed Congress on a high point with a commanding view of the Potomac, instead of reserving the grandest spot for the leader's palace as was customary in Europe, to display the American attitude of reserving the high point of the city for the Legislature whose duty it is to represent the People and the States. These wide boulevards stemming from the radials allowed for easy transportation across town and offered views of important buildings and common squares from great distances.

Eventually L'Enfant's head strong behavior earned him the ire of Washington, who fired him after one year of employment. According to the Encyclopedia Americana:

L'Enfant forged ahead regardless of his orders, the budget, or landowners with prior claims.

When he left the US, he took his designs with him. The duty of remaking the plans fell upon Andrew Ellicot and Benjamin Banneker (a freed black man). Banneker was able to recreate the plans in their entirety from memory.

Of all the men who dealt with the designs, of this future Seat of Government, was George Washington. Some have stated that L'Enfant was a Mason, but according to Brent Morris in his book, The Complete Idiot’s Guide to Freemasonry, stated:

Eager Freemasons with more enthusiasm than facts have claimed L’Enfant as a brother. It is unfortunate for them that there are no documents, either primary or secondary, showing L’Enfant was a Mason.

To counter this, Pierre F. de Ravel d’Esclapon, of New York, wrote an article called "The Masonic Career of Major Pierre Charles L’Enfant" who states there exist minutes of Holland Lodge in NY that show L'Enfant getting proposed and initiated, but makes no more further statements as to whether he made it to become a Master Mason. I find his article intriguing, but the evidence is circumstantial and muddies the water. Even if he had been initiated, if he had not progressed any further he would not have been considered a full member nor entitled to the rights of membership. Regardless of his affiliation, he was fired and the designs remade from Banneker are what we see today.

The conspiracy theorist states that there exists a inverted pentagram (as seen in the picture above), but if you notice I have one line that is blue. I made that line blue because Rhode Island Ave NW doesn't go all the way through to K St NW. Rhode Island Ave NW stops when it runs into Connecticut Ave NW. The pentagram is not complete.

Some also state that you can find the Square and Compasses (one of the most prominent Masonic symbols out there), but I'd like to point out that when you place a radial street system upon a grid system, you'll find the Square and Compasses. With an intricate crisscross of streets, you're bound to find various images. In fact, as you can see in the picture above, you can spell "JESUS" in the streets of Washington DC, but you don't hear anyone condemning it as some deviant scheme of the Christian faith.

I personally find this theory to be illogical and unfounded, but even faced with the facts some people will hold tight to their theories.

Originally posted by SomeoneWatching
Hm, I don't think I've ever been so questioned or corrected before.

Thank you for the insight. Perhaps my concept is indeed totally inaccurate, like network dude said...

So, freemasons just build monuments to honor each other, because they can? No satanic conspiracy?

There are some members here who happen to be masons who are happy to tell you the truth. In the spirit of this site's motto, deny ignorance. If you wish to continue to believe the lies you seem to have gotten by skimming the scum off the pond, you are free to obviously, but since you seem to have taken an interest in this subject, it would be a shame to go through it believing insanely stupid lies. Unlike the keyboard commandos at the fanatical Christian hate sites, we actually joined masonry and found out the real deal. And most of us were conspiracy guys BEFORE we were masons.

Freemasons are speculative. Operative masons build things. There is a difference.

I know this is a conspiracy theory site.....but my God, how hard is it to understand Freemasonry is not evil/infiltrated etc. etc. Most Masons will tell you what it is about. You can usually visit a Masonic Temple. You can read things aside from flawed history/conspiracy theories. I don't think the Anti-Masons with their silly theories realize how ignorant they look to those who are part of the craft. It usually makes me laugh, or smile, it usually entertains me...but wow...I just dont get how so much false information is out there, and how easily people believe it. If you believe these silly Masonic theories, that we worship the Devil (who I don't even believe in), sacrafice goats or babies, or baby goats......just drive to a local temple and ask for a tour and chat it up. Most Masons love to talk. You will probably have a hard time getting them to shut up

Originally posted by FreeMason0508
Most Masons love to talk. You will probably have a hard time getting them to shut up

Perhaps, in between bites of fried child, or my personal favorite, the still beating heart of the latest sacrificial virgin.
If your lodge doesn't eat it's fresh kills, then maybe your lodge isn't high enough in the inner circle.

You need to have several 99th degree brothers as well as the current Illuminati representative for your district validate your kitchen. If you need me to, I can make a call. (BTW, health rating must be over 87%) Those virgins can carry bacteria.

Originally posted by SomeoneWatching

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
Superior ≠ Supreme. Masons MUST believe in a Supreme Being that created all that is. Satan ≠ supreme being. Geddit?

I do get it, that is exactly why it can't be ruled out.

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
Why would Satanists join a fraternity focused on (among other things) praising the Almighty (by whatever particular descriptor an individual Mason might use), doing good works in their community and beyond and improving themselves?

Where's the sense?

Well, these people tend to lie a lot, you see. And when people find out, they tend to be called "evil". So they have no problem in living a dual life and in fact that might be part of the "rush". That's why I worry.

So you think (if I read you correctly) that a liar will lie about everything and act against his own professed beliefs, all in order to gain the mantle of "Freemason" which when inevitably he does something contrary to Masonic teachings and societal dictates, will be stripped from him. He won't be a Mason in actuality and he would never have been one at heart.

What on Earth is the point?

Fitz