EU takes tougher stance on Israeli settlements

reply to post by buster2010


I never said all Zionists are Jews or the other way around. Learn to read.

Also, the 'Zionists' that supposedly backed Hitler had a different agenda than to create the state of Israel. Israel was a means to an end, but that doesnt mean all Zionists are evil. Zionism is a righteous cause since the world has proved over and over it cannot look past racial differences especially with the Jews so the Jews took it into their own hands. I dont blame them. I am a Zionist and im not an atheist, so you are wrong their too.

PS. this generation of palestinian people are not a nation and they never were, they are the offspring of the refugees that were exiled form arab states generations ago. They were identified as 'palestine' or 'palestinians' since thats what was used by the British mandate to name that Land of Israel that we know it as today. They have no more inherent right to call it 'their' land. They are not 'palestinians'. Before they were palestinians they were originally Jordanian, Syrian, Saudi etc. but most would rather ignore this little bit of history! Ignorance is bliss to you guys!

reply to post by buster2010


Have you ever been to Gaza?

I have lived there for over 2 years but judging by your confident remarks it would seem you have more experience than me about this situation.

Can you please enlighten me? How do they live in Gaza?

reply to post by dashen

When has anyone but the Palestinians talked about wiping anyone off any map?

you are right. The Israeli prime ministers never said they wanted to wipe them off the map, they said they wanted to push them into the sea and crush them against the rocks like the bugs they are.

reply to post by combatmaster

PS. this generation of palestinian people are not a nation and they never were, they are the offspring of the refugees that were exiled form arab states generations ago. They were identified as 'palestine' or 'palestinians' since thats what was used by the British mandate to name that Land of Israel that we know it as today. They have no more inherent right to call it 'their' land. They are not 'palestinians'. Before they were palestinians they were originally Jordanian, Syrian, Saudi etc. but most would rather ignore this little bit of history! Ignorance is bliss to you guys!

And the Israelis who live in Israel came from Europe and the US. How conveniently you left that part out.

So... the Palestinians were there for hundreds of years up until the end of WW2, but they have no claim. But the Israelis who hadn't lived there for a thousand years do?

You deserve a silver medal in mental gymnastics.

reply to post by RedShirt73

Exactly, if you listen to the speech that Ahmadinejad gave you would know that the whole "wiping off the map" thing was taken completely out of context by the US government/media and they ran with it.

They already know this. He was quoting a different speech, for starters. And never used the term map. Translated he stated that the zionist entity occupying the land would be washed away from the pages of history. Just like many other unjust regimes, it won't last.

And it's true. If Israel doesn't learn to live with the rest of the world, they are doomed. They are creating enemies left and right, and isolating themselves from former allies.

But see, you've got Iran who hasn't attacked anyone in a few hundred years, you've got the palestinians who, while not existing, pose an existential threat to Israel while not being able to produce anymore more than homemade artillery, and you've got ISrael, one of the most advanced armies on earth, with the undying and unquestioning support, financially and militarily, of the western powers.

One group is being occupied, the other is occupying it. If any other nation even pretended to violate half of the international laws Israel has, or had a quarter of the UN sanctions Israel had, we'd have bombed them into the stone ages a decade ago.

define a border, and stick within it. It's not that hard really. But they won't. They want greater Israel and they will put the entire world in danger to get it. It's insanity. And it shows you, just like in the US, special interest groups run the government, not the will of the people.

No one here supports terrorism, on either side, I think that's fairly safe to say.

reply to post by combatmaster

They have no more inherent right to call it 'their' land. They are not 'palestinians'. Before they were palestinians they were originally Jordanian, Syrian, Saudi etc. but most would rather ignore this little bit of history! Ignorance is bliss to you guys!

They are no more Palestinian as you are American. Ignorance is indeed bliss.

Awesome! It's a small step in the right direction. Hopefully others will follow suit. And I too cannot wait until Zionism fades from the pages of history.

I work for the Co-operative group, and some tried to suggest we were anti semetic because they decided they were no longer going to buy pruduce from settlements in Palestine.
I think it's one of the better policies they've come up with.

reply to post by dashen

Clearly Iran has no problem nuking all the palestinians along with them

Clearly you do not know what you are tapping about. Iran has no problem with jews, it has a problem with Zionism.

Originally posted by Briles1207
Whilst I commend the EU for doing this, I cant help think that it is poking the beehive with a stick.

Israel is always looking for an excuse

Generally the danger with poking a beehive is getting stung.

You really think Europe is worried about getting stung by Israel? They may have the nicest toys in the middle east, but they are impotent against Europe.

I bet you Israel will call Europe nazis. Since a German is head of the EU, it wouldn't surprise me to see Israel throwing around ridiculous rhetoric on that subject.

reply to post by combatmaster

I never said all Zionists are Jews or the other way around. Learn to read.

You are the one who said

Zionism and Judaism are today intertwined due to the holocaust, among other things.

So learn how to write.

Also, the 'Zionists' that supposedly backed Hitler had a different agenda than to create the state of Israel. Israel was a means to an end, but that doesnt mean all Zionists are evil.

So what was their agenda as Jews were thrown into the ovens? And show me where I said all Zionist are evil.

Zionism is a righteous cause since the world has proved over and over it cannot look past racial differences especially with the Jews so the Jews took it into their own hands. I dont blame them.

Funny I can show plenty of Jews who claim Israel in no way represents them in any way. So why do you start off with Zionist but always finish with saying Jews?

PS. this generation of palestinian people are not a nation and they never were, they are the offspring of the refugees that were exiled form arab states generations ago.

The same can be said of these Zionist who claim the land now. The offspring of the refugees that were exiled from there generations ago.

They were identified as 'palestine' or 'palestinians' since thats what was used by the British mandate to name that Land of Israel that we know it as today. They have no more inherent right to call it 'their' land.

The British mandate established the borders not the name that name had been in use since Roman times. They have far more claim to the land than a bunch of people that says a book we wrote says the land belongs to us.

As far as inherited right would the Israelis pack up and move if some Sumerians were to show up and say we want our homeland back?

Ignorance is bliss to you guys!

Yes ignorance is bliss to the supporters of Israel.

Originally posted by combatmaster
reply to post by buster2010

 

Have you ever been to Gaza?

I have lived there for over 2 years but judging by your confident remarks it would seem you have more experience than me about this situation.

Can you please enlighten me? How do they live in Gaza?

Israels illegal blockade stops trade.
Fishermen are only allowed to go out three miles instead of the twelve they should be allowed to go.
Farming has an important but limited role due to lack of access to water and the buffer zones imposed by Israel along the border.


Ask this kid how are things in Gaza? I'm sure he will say just great.

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
reply to post by combatmaster

 

PS. this generation of palestinian people are not a nation and they never were, they are the offspring of the refugees that were exiled form arab states generations ago. They were identified as 'palestine' or 'palestinians' since thats what was used by the British mandate to name that Land of Israel that we know it as today. They have no more inherent right to call it 'their' land. They are not 'palestinians'. Before they were palestinians they were originally Jordanian, Syrian, Saudi etc. but most would rather ignore this little bit of history! Ignorance is bliss to you guys!

And the Israelis who live in Israel came from Europe and the US. How conveniently you left that part out.

So... the Palestinians were there for hundreds of years up until the end of WW2, but they have no claim. But the Israelis who hadn't lived there for a thousand years do?

You deserve a silver medal in mental gymnastics.

You mixed it up a little, let me correct you:

Jewish refugees exile Israel 2000 or so years ago, and return to their homeland in 1948.

Arab refugees from several countries (mainly Jordan), exile their homeland a few hundred years ago and get sent to the british mandate palestine, but they wont return to their original homeland today. Why?

Dont you see that your mental gymnastics are all wrong? And also, how are the ISraelis from Europe and US? did u forget that Jews are the offspring of Jews all the way back to the Kindgdom of Judea and King David? Ofcourse you will say archaeology has not proven # but if you go to ISrael and c for yourself then u will know the truth as i do!

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
reply to post by combatmaster

 

They have no more inherent right to call it 'their' land. They are not 'palestinians'. Before they were palestinians they were originally Jordanian, Syrian, Saudi etc. but most would rather ignore this little bit of history! Ignorance is bliss to you guys!

They are no more Palestinian as you are American. Ignorance is indeed bliss.

Your remark doesnt even make any sense. I am not American, im glad you figured that out. Please be clearer.

Originally posted by buster2010
reply to post by combatmaster

 

I never said all Zionists are Jews or the other way around. Learn to read.

You are the one who said

Zionism and Judaism are today intertwined due to the holocaust, among other things.

So learn how to write.

Also, the 'Zionists' that supposedly backed Hitler had a different agenda than to create the state of Israel. Israel was a means to an end, but that doesnt mean all Zionists are evil.

So what was their agenda as Jews were thrown into the ovens? And show me where I said all Zionist are evil.

Zionism is a righteous cause since the world has proved over and over it cannot look past racial differences especially with the Jews so the Jews took it into their own hands. I dont blame them.

Funny I can show plenty of Jews who claim Israel in no way represents them in any way. So why do you start off with Zionist but always finish with saying Jews?

PS. this generation of palestinian people are not a nation and they never were, they are the offspring of the refugees that were exiled form arab states generations ago.

The same can be said of these Zionist who claim the land now. The offspring of the refugees that were exiled from there generations ago.

They were identified as 'palestine' or 'palestinians' since thats what was used by the British mandate to name that Land of Israel that we know it as today. They have no more inherent right to call it 'their' land.

The British mandate established the borders not the name that name had been in use since Roman times. They have far more claim to the land than a bunch of people that says a book we wrote says the land belongs to us.

As far as inherited right would the Israelis pack up and move if some Sumerians were to show up and say we want our homeland back?

Ignorance is bliss to you guys!

Yes ignorance is bliss to the supporters of Israel.

I dont know how to organize a post as and quotes neatly as you do (ill give u that), i will give it to you this way. paragraph by paragraph point by point.

I said Judaism and Zionism are intertwined, it doesn;t mean They become eachother. If blacks and Asians were intertiwned it doenst mean that all blacks are asians. Catch my drift? its not such a hard concept to grasp. I wrote it perfectly. Why tell me 'learn to write' when you are the one offending me by putting words in my mouth (misquoting me). So YOU learn to read!

I dont know much about Zionists backing Hitler. You originally stated that zionists backed him. So i assumed it was all part of the plan if they backed him or maybe not i dunno but i hoped you would know more since you stated it first. i was just trusting your info to be true!

You didnt say that all zionists are evil. I never said you did, but you and others talk of Zionism as if it were a disease and the implications of that are obvious. Why beat around the bush?

i also stated that "this generation of palestinian people are not a nation and they never were, they are the offspring of the refugees that were exiled form arab states generations ago." and you replied "The same can be said of these Zionist who claim the land now. The offspring of the refugees that were exiled from there generations ago. "

The same cannot be said of Zionists who claim the land now since their ancestral refugees were exiled from ISrael, the same land they have claimed back. The Palestinians however, are in exile right now. Israel was never thier home originally, Jordan was among other nations. So either you are very stupid for mixing this up or very clever with word games. No offence! But its getting kinda repetative with all the same word games from ignorant ATS'ers.

continued...

reply to post by combatmaster


I want you to know that at least we agree on one thing and thats the British Mandate point you made. The Palestinian name does not belong to these people. They died with the romans. These 'palestinians' of today should in fact be labelled as the mostly jordanian refugees that they truly are. Furthermore, you made a very important point without realizing it. Your question about inhereted right and the sumerians - the answer is YES. If the Canaanites' offspring for example showed up and were the same people same culture unchanged religious beliefs and stated that they want their land back then Israel no longer belongs to JEWS. This is a fundamental agreement in the Torah (old testament). A cornerstone of Judaism is that God cleansed the Land of Israel (Canaan) of its inhabitants to make way for the Jews. I know it sounds horrible and thats a discussion for another thread im sure you will agree. But the point you unknowingly made was the same one Jewish religion teaches is proof God has kept his promise since none of those early original inhabitants of that land exist today. Whether true history or not it doesnt take away the whole inhereted right from the table.

I am not trying to be offensive or rude. So please dont get offended!

reply to post by buster2010


Why dont you try to answer my question instead of get emotional over a few fishermen and a boy you have never met before in you life!

Edit cos i have to ask. Have you ever been to Gaza?

If your answer is no, then i rest my case!

Originally posted by James1982

Originally posted by Briles1207
Whilst I commend the EU for doing this, I cant help think that it is poking the beehive with a stick.

Israel is always looking for an excuse

Generally the danger with poking a beehive is getting stung.

You really think Europe is worried about getting stung by Israel? They may have the nicest toys in the middle east, but they are impotent against Europe.

I bet you Israel will call Europe nazis. Since a German is head of the EU, it wouldn't surprise me to see Israel throwing around ridiculous rhetoric on that subject.

I 100% agree.

The one thing I've noticed about these threads is how pointless they are. No one ever changes anyone's mind. You could show a video of Israelis eating a Palestinian baby, or Palestinians eating a Jewish baby and their defenders would alibi them and make excuses how it's the others fault.

My only opinion on this mess is the US should fund them both equally or not at all, we should get out of this mess either by abandoning everybody, or helping everybody

reply to post by mymymy


I dont think its really about changing peoples minds, Its more about showing things from a different perspective.

I also dont think by funding both it would achieve anything. It would just give them bigger toys to play with.

However I agree pulling funding for both would be the lesser of two evils.

Briles