Why Zimmerman is Guilty

reply to post by teamcommander



wtf is 2nd degree manslaughter?? Never heard of that. Could you provide a link?
I have only heard of voluntary and involuntary.
Seriously...can you show me what you are talking about?

reply to post by Willtell


No, Zimmerman is Innocent, because he wasn't proven to be guilty. We all are innocent until proven guilty!

Please review T&C and refrain from personal attacks and insults.

Person A follows Person B.
Person A instigates contact with Person B.
Person A shoots Person B.

Person B is kil
who was phone?

Person A follows Person B.
Person A instigates contact with Person B.
Person A shoots Person B.

Person B is kil
who was phone?

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee
Person A follows Person B.
Person A instigates contact with Person B.
Person A shoots Person B.

Person B is kil
who was phone?

all good except for the "Person A instigates CONTACT with person B."
You have that backwards.

Originally posted by howmuch4another

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee
Person A follows Person B.
Person A instigates contact with Person B.
Person A shoots Person B.

Person B is kil
who was phone?

all good except for the "Person A instigates CONTACT with person B."
You have that backwards.

Stepping out of your vehicle is instigating contact. This is why you don't get out of your vehicle when an officer approaches your car. You allow the officer to instigate contact.

Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by Indigo5

 

The star witness, TM's friend said TM was almost home. If he was almost home, why didn't he just go all the way home? I know I would have.

Precisely...why almost home and after fleeing the whole time does he circle back and attack?

Cuz he didn't...same reason Zimmerman's accounts changed multiple times. Same reasons multiple witnesses heard a chase. Zimmerman caught TM and didn't expect TM to fight.

edit on 16-7-2013 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)

The facts say otherwise.
listen to the 911 call and you`ll hear that zimmerman lost sight of Martin for a full 3 minutes. What was martin doing for that 3 minutes? he was only approximately 100 yards from his house,zimmerman was somewhere behind him in the dark,his house was 100 yards in front of him,what was he doing for those 3 minutes? He either didn`t continue on his way to his house or he went home and then came back,because his body was found approximately in the same area where zimmerman lost sight of him 3 minutes before.

Look at a map of that area,pay attention to the distances and cross reference it with the timeline of the 911 call.
Zimmerman was on the phone with 911 for all but about 1 minute of the incident, the first officer arrived 1 minute after martin was shot. so, we know exactly what happened that night all except for 2 minutes.

At the time that zimmerman hung up the phone with 911 he had already lost sight of martin about 2 minutes before that, We know for certain that martin had at least 2 minutes to get to his house which was only 100 yards away.

By looking at the map,distances and following the timeline of the 911 call we see that either martin never went home even though he had the chance to or he went home and then came back to provoke a confrontation.
The map,distances and 911 timeline prove that martin was never at anytime prevented from getting to his house.

reply to post by MystikMushroom

I can arm myself, walk into the worst part of Chicago as a skinny white kid with decent clothes, get held up and shoot that person out of "self defense" even though I made a conscious choice to enter said neighborhood?

You can't claim self defense when you make a decision to knowingly put yourself in danger. That's not self defense, that's asking for trouble.

The law will not say you are get some automatic guilt because you were walking on a street there. If it is public, you have the right to be there. The criminals certainly wish that is how the laws worked.

Originally posted by pavil
reply to post by Indigo5

 

Lotta "maybe's" in that post of yours. I go based on the facts that are known. We don't know for sure who started the fight, usually the one to get the first blow in. Evidence would suggest that that person was TM. Only one person had wounds from a fight.


You have a good day.

For what it's worth I do believe that TM threw the first punch, but that was in response to either a tackle or a firm grabbing of the arm following the chase that multiple witnesses testified to. Just my opinion.

The witness, Selene Bahadoor, said she heard running, shouting and the word “no” at the back of her town house at the Retreat at Twin Lakes on Feb. 26, 2012, the night Mr. Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer at the complex, and Mr. Martin encountered each other. Ms. Bahadoor said she was in the kitchen when she heard what sounded like running, a movement from “left to right.” From a window at the rear of her home, she said, she saw what looked like two people flailing their arms. Both were standing, Ms. Bahadoor said, but it was too dark to make out their faces or clothing.

After walking back to her stove, she heard what sounded like a gunshot. Then, she said, she saw a body on the ground.

www.nytimes.com...

Witness 2

She told authorities that she had taken out her contact lenses just before the incident. In her first recorded interview with Sanford police four days after the shooting, she told lead Investigator Chris Serino, "I saw two guys running. Couldn't tell you who was in front, who was behind."

articles.orlandosentinel.com...

No one jumped anyone...it was a chase that ended in confrontation...Zimmerman lied.

Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by Indigo5

 

The star witness, TM's friend said TM was almost home. If he was almost home, why didn't he just go all the way home? I know I would have.

Precisely...why almost home and after fleeing the whole time does he circle back and attack?

Cuz he didn't...same reason Zimmerman's accounts changed multiple times. Same reasons multiple witnesses heard a chase. Zimmerman caught TM and didn't expect TM to fight.

edit on 16-7-2013 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)

Because he didn't? And you know this how? So the altercation happened right by the kid's dad's house and TM ended up on top of Z.

Also, another account says she said he was almost home and thought he was safe and that she only heard of his death later.

A visibly distraught Jeantel discussed how she had believed given the nearness of Martin to his father’s home that he’d returned safe, and was horrified to learn three days later that the teen had been shot dead during the confrontation she’d heard over the phone.

We may never know what really happened.

Describing a “creepy” man following Martin relentlessly (through his own description), she indicated Trayvon “told me he was going to try to lose him,” and recalled advising him to run.
Jeantel testified that Martin believed he’d finally evaded Zimmerman when the teen realized the stranger was right behind him. She recalls she “heard a hard breathing man say ‘what are you doing around here?’ “

obnoxioustv.wordpress.com...

So he evaded Z and then somehow Z found him again. We may never know whether he was already back at his Dad's house after he evaded Z and then Z found him, or if he was almost home and then went after Z.

But TM did end up on top of Z to smash his head into the ground. Or do you think his head injuries happened a different way?
You seem to believe that Z attacked TM first but then TM gained control. So he asked TM what he was doing there and proceeded to attack him ? Would you run up to a guy, ask him why he was in the neighborhood then just attack ? I'm not buying that argument. I guess the jury also didn't accept that argument.

reply to post by Willtell


Here is how I bet it went.

Z: Hey you what are you doing?"

T: None of your buisness.

Z stopping the car and getting out: It is my buisness, so what are doing here.

T: Suck it dude.

Z: Excuse me??!! Listen here punk you need to tell me who you are, are you trying to break into someones house becuause I have a gun.

T starts to jog away. Z grabbs him and T punches him in the nose

Z recovering grabs T, T and Z go at it T starts to beat up Z, sees gun goes for it.

Z fearing for his life at this point also grabs for the gun, while his head is getting bashed int the ground.

They scuffel, a shot is fired at T maybey bay accident. Z rolls him on his back to make sure fight is over, gets on top.

That would make sense. Any teen would have talked some s#it, then by Z grabbing him that just made him punch him, not the best course of action.

reply to post by Tardacus


Sounds silly...but have you ever been chased by a stranger as a child or teenager? Well, not to go off topic...but you don't want to lead them to where you live. That's kinda scary. It's possible that Trayvon did briefly hide...but the TM deciding to ambush Zimmerman bit is the least credible bit of the story...and like I said...witnesses claim a chase ending in the fight...and Zimmermans story of the confrontation has changed multiple times. Not buying.

Originally posted by roadgravel
reply to post by MystikMushroom

 

I can arm myself, walk into the worst part of Chicago as a skinny white kid with decent clothes, get held up and shoot that person out of "self defense" even though I made a conscious choice to enter said neighborhood?

You can't claim self defense when you make a decision to knowingly put yourself in danger. That's not self defense, that's asking for trouble.

The law will not say you are get some automatic guilt because you were walking on a street there. If it is public, you have the right to be there. The criminals certainly wish that is how the laws worked.

it wasn`t a public street it was private property, no tax payer money was used to make those roads and sidewalks in that community, no tax payer money is used to maintain the roads and sidewalks in that community.neither martin not his father were legal residence of that community,neither of them paid any money to build or maintain the roads and sidewalks, the other legal residence paid for that.martin and his father were both just visitors on private property.

Originally posted by Indigo5
reply to post by Tardacus

 

Sounds silly...but have you ever been chased by a stranger as a child or teenager? Well, not to go off topic...but you don't want to lead them to where you live. That's kinda scary. It's possible that Trayvon did briefly hide...but the TM deciding to ambush Zimmerman bit is the least credible bit of the story...and like I said...witnesses claim a chase ending in the fight...and Zimmermans story of the confrontation has changed multiple times. Not buying.

martin had a phone if he felt that his safety was in danger he could have called the police but he never did that instead he called his girlfriend and was chatting with her, he wasn`t scared nor did he feel in any danger.

Originally posted by MrFGB
reply to post by Willtell

 

No, Zimmerman is Innocent, because he wasn't proven to be guilty.

Yep, him and OJ both. Again, "being" innocent and being "found" innocent in a court of law are two different things...ditto for "guilty" BTW.

Originally posted by Tardacus


martin had a phone if he felt that his safety was in danger he could have called the police but he never did that instead he called his girlfriend and was chatting with her, he wasn`t scared nor did he feel in any danger.

That's a weird claim? He wasn't scared? Did not feel in danger? Though he fled Zimmerman?

Originally posted by Indigo5
reply to post by Tardacus

 

Sounds silly...but have you ever been chased by a stranger as a child or teenager? Well, not to go off topic...but you don't want to lead them to where you live. That's kinda scary. It's possible that Trayvon did briefly hide...but the TM deciding to ambush Zimmerman bit is the least credible bit of the story...and like I said...witnesses claim a chase ending in the fight...and Zimmermans story of the confrontation has changed multiple times. Not buying.

Your whole argument here is what leads people to believe that TM ambushed Z after evading him. Since people apparently believe he was close to home and did not want Z to find out where he lived. After all, the friend testified he was almost home when the altercation happened and she thought he was safe. Phone goes dead, she doesn't know what happened after she hears the guy say what are you doing around here, but he is close to home so she thinks he is safe. And yet he was going to try to evade him....something doesn't fit here.

She says he said he was going to try to get home through the back. So the back of what? A back yard, a back alleyway leading behind the house? Were they that close to the house? He evades Z but Z finds him again....but where were they then?

Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by MrFGB
reply to post by Willtell

 

No, Zimmerman is Innocent, because he wasn't proven to be guilty.

Yep, him and OJ both. Again, "being" innocent and being "found" innocent in a court of law are two different things...ditto for "guilty" BTW.

George Zimmerman shot an innocent boy.

Originally posted by roadgravel
reply to post by MystikMushroom

 

I can arm myself, walk into the worst part of Chicago as a skinny white kid with decent clothes, get held up and shoot that person out of "self defense" even though I made a conscious choice to enter said neighborhood?

You can't claim self defense when you make a decision to knowingly put yourself in danger. That's not self defense, that's asking for trouble.

The law will not say you are get some automatic guilt because you were walking on a street there. If it is public, you have the right to be there. The criminals certainly wish that is how the laws worked.

Sure it's public, but it's a dangerous part of town. If I strap a gun to my hip and say, "Well, lets go to a dangerous part of town and help out the police!" doesn't that negate "self defense". I knowingly walked into a potentially dangerous situation when I didn't have to.

That's the point, Zimmerman DIDNT HAVE TO get out of the car, let alone follow the kid.

Those two choices and actions resulted in someone's death. To me, when one's decisions and actions result in the death of someone else, they are guilty.

Edit to add:

I don't understand why everyone is arguing over the details after Zimmerman got off the phone with police dispatch? Who cares? The most critical moment of this entire case were the two decisions Zimmerman made to get out of that car and follow that kid.

Besides, Zimmerman had a long history of violence (restraining order for DM, felony resisting arrest). He's even assaulted an officer before. He was even fired for being a bouncer for being to aggressive. It doesn't surprise me that he went all vigilante "Gung Ho!"

That's why TM is dead, overzealous wannabe cop took matters into his own hands. He made two bad decisions and took two bad actions and now someone is dead.

End. Of. Story.

Originally posted by Willtell

Originally posted by goochball
I love when people make up their own version of the story and try to pass it off as fact. The word "hypothetically" should never be involved when determining whether or not someone is guilty.

So it is very likely that Zimmerman had the gun pulled on the kid and the kid panicked and went after Zimmerman.

Sorry, makes no sense. Who in their right mind would run at someone with fists flying, whilst having a gun pointed at them? That is possibly the worst idea ever.

Have you ever had a street fight?
Have you ever had a gun on you?
People panic when that happens.

Trayvon panicked and screamed and went for the gun

That’s more logical than this 17 year old kid attacking a man

Recall Zimmerman’s mental state on the phone:
“They always get away

Those juries just didn’t want to think a black boy was human

Yes I have been in a street fight, and yes I have had a gun pulled on me.

The street fight, if you arent scared in a street fight something is wrong with you. You fight with the other person but you dont want to kill them, just hurt them enough to where they give up on trying to hurt you.

The gun. I stepped out of my apartment, and this dude said he kid come here. As I walked to him he pulled the gun. I didnt rush him, I stopped dead in my tracks. I almost shat myself, then he pulled the trigger, it was empty. Instead of being pissed I was relieved. I highly doubt when he seen the gun if it was pulled out while Z was standing, that he would rush him. That makes no sense.