"Accidental" flight over the Tonopah Test Range

Flight over restricted airspace

Pandemonium ensued. We all started screaming. Toby tried to steer away but the other plane stayed right with us. We finally noticed he was holding up a sign with some numbers, a radio frequency. We tuned in and he said "You have violated military airspace and interrupted a military exercise. I'm going to have to ask you to follow me." Toby began to explain that we were lost, trying to find Reno. The other pilot simply said "We'll discuss it at the debriefing."

Feel free to apply your own BS filter. There are no nuclear craters at the TTR, so probably these guys were at the Nevada Test Site, if any of this story is true.

I think you would be hard pressed to find a pilot that doesn't know about 121.5MHz, my guess as to what the "sign" said, plus can you really read a sign from another aircraft?

reply to post by gariac


several elements of their tail are ,to put it diplomatically : " fictionalised "

reply to post by gariac

Actually yes you can read a sign from other aircraft. We did it all the time during air refueling, especially during EMCON. They held up a sign showing "3.5K" or something telling us how much fuel they wanted. lol. We held up the most recent Playboy magazine to come into theatre as a treat for them in the boom pod. lol.

And why not 243.0? Every pilot should know guard right?

reply to post by boomer135

And why not 243.0? Every pilot should know guard right?

Ah, but civilians don't have UHF radios. Prior to 9/11, some military aircraft didn't have VHF radios.

But every mil-air monitor knows about "guard". ;-)

reply to post by gariac

It is a fun story but highly doubt it actually happened. It is fun to pretend to fly over or sneak in the Range somehow or someway. Fantasy but not reality! It would be cool if the Freeman story was true.

reply to post by DesertShadow


You can cross the TTR on days it is not in use. Usually Sunday but not every Sunday.
Blue Fire across the range
I recently saw an internet track for a small prop plane cross the TTR. I did a post on ATS as well.

Flying a private plane along route 93 will also get a view of the base. [Got a photo...can't show it..grrr.]

I know a pilot whose private plane (a rental) was chased out of the range. He swears he didn't enter restricted airspace, but when the A10 flies next to you and starts to rock its wings, you get out of Dodge. But no forced landing, which was a good thing since he was stationed at Nellis. ;-)

But getting back to the person that wrote this tale about the forced landing, if they would chase you anywhere, it would be at an airstrip in free territory. Beatty for instance. Why risk showing most of the range? The other problem with this story is given the circumstances (solar eclipse), it is pretty easy to figure out the day of the flight and do a FOIA. I suspect no record of this event. ;-)

reply to post by gariac


Big G, what do you make of the Jerry Freeman story. I always thought it was interesting, but just a little short on real evidence. I can't remember but somehow he lost his camera that he brought on the journey.

reply to post by DesertShadow


Jerry had some photos. One was of an old building. Glenn Campbell (the researcher, not the musician) did a write up of Jerry Freeman on his blog:

Glenn on Jerry

Jerry's story is way more believable than "he who shall not be named." I can believe he got past detection. There was always talk of setting up ground surveillance radar at the NTS, but I don't believe it ever happened. If you avoid buildings, you could probably get by detection. Freeman's path went through areas the NTS didn't care about. It's not like he tried to cut the outer fence of the DAF. ;-)

I think the same is true of Groom Lake, though you would have to approach from the south. As far as we know, they only detect cars with magnetometers connected to EMIDs. But it would be a ball buster of a trip.

Huh. Images aren't working for me. Anyway the photos can be found here, on the left.

reply to post by gariac


There is a lot of convincing info, but the one thing that always bugged me was when I read Peter Merlin's take on the story and he brought up the fact that Jerry did take a camera and take some photos, but he left the camera on the trail when he thought he needed to shed some stuff to make it back safe. The camera is the last thing he should have shed. They don't weigh that much!!! I do agree that the journey could have been made without detection back then. I am sure today it would be much more difficult due to the drones flying everywhere! When I drive home form work in Vegas back to the beautiful metropolis of Pahrump, I see drones everywhere along the HWY. I am sure they are everywhere throughout the Range. Practice makes perfect.

reply to post by DesertShadow


One of the commenters on the Campbell blog claims to be a family member, and says things didn't go quite as stated wrt: security. Could possibly explain the camera situation.

Originally posted by gariac
reply to post by DesertShadow

 

Jerry had some photos. One was of an old building. Glenn Campbell (the researcher, not the musician) did a write up of Jerry Freeman on his blog. Jerry's story is way more believable than "he who shall not be named."

I had believed Freemans story, until I read this:
"'49er Treasure Chest Found in Death Valley Cave is Bogus"
www.desertusa.com...

reply to post by FosterVS


I had read that as well. Freeman's reputation isn't stellar, but that doesn't mean the trip through the NTS is faked. I just rank the story as more believable than he who shall not be named. At least Freeman could have made the trip. I can also believe security just driving past him at night. Most people are watching the road and looking for critters. Apparently there is no shortage of cougars on the range. I was monitoring their old P-16 trunk radio system and some guy was pissed that he left for lunch, came back, and a cougar was lounging on his bulldozer. My recollection is all they are allowed to do is spray water on the cats.

At the time of the trip, the NTS was well past its testing days, at least for reaching critical mass. [All post test ban treaty tests are sub-critical.] The place didn't have the drones, the counter-terrorism training center, etc. It was pretty sleepy. Even the NTS tours were barely attended in the 90s. I went to the reading room and was the only person there. Jeff (Gordon I think was his last name) didn't have much to do so he sat around and watched old declassified/sanitized videos with me.

The first NTS tour I took was probably the best. I really wish I logged the name of the guide. He was a former employee. He said if there were only a few protestors, they would let them go past the gate, get pooped out, and then wait to be arrested. The last tour I took was probably 5 or 6 years ago. They leave from Vegas now. Instead of a bus half filled, they had four buses totally packed. Note that the only way they would let you into CP-1 is if no foreign nationals are on the tour. Good luck doing that with bus loads of tourists.

Regarding Freeman leaving the camera, I presume he saved the film, which is light. The real problem with this trip is the lack of water. Freeman traveled at night, so that certainly helped.

The "potential crater" signs are real. There are a few blasts that never formed a crater, but the NTS doesn't believe the ground is stable. Since cameras are not allowed on the NTS tour and nobody had a smartphone in those days, where did he get that photo?

Back to CP-1, it has a map of the range on the wall IIRC opposite the main door. That map still has Area 51 on it. Also there is something Groom Lake related in the first row...eh which I won't reveal.

reply to post by gariac





The tables are from groom?

reply to post by gariac

The "potential crater" signs are real. There are a few blasts that never formed a crater, but the NTS doesn't believe the ground is stable. Since cameras are not allowed on the NTS tour and nobody had a smartphone in those days, where did he get that photo?

Where is this "Potential Crater" pic? I don't believe I have ever seen this photo.

reply to post by DesertShadow


The photo image doesn't come through the ATS link feature. Go back to dogsharks post and use that link, then click on test site photo.
LV Sun archive

Now in the past, there have been a few photographers allowed on the NTS. But I don't ever recall seeing this photo until it was in the Sun.

The NTS has a Flickr page in addition to photos on its website. This is really annoying since Flickr is not the easiest thing to search.

reply to post by Stealthbomber


No, the tables are not from Groom. [You are now down to 19 questions.]

It is a shame there isn't a larger photograph of the room. I could have sworn the map was on that wall but towards the back. Anyway, I can't tell if it has Area 51 on it due to the resolution.

reply to post by gariac


I am not sure about that photo. There are photos all over the NTS. I took the wife and kids there on a Sunday afternoon for our own private tour a few years back. We were able to drive all the way to the final gate before we were met by two guards. They were very friendly and asked if i would head back to the HWY. I said sure and sorry and was off. I took photos the entire way in and out. It was a fun tour

youtu.be...

A link to the video I made with some of the photos inside the NTS.

reply to post by DesertShadow


But all the areas in that video look like they were photographed from free territory. You could make it all the way to Mercury and not see anything remotely secret.

To get to a potential crater site, you need to to be in the nuclear test area. Other than Desert Rock, there isn't much to see from the highway.

You can also drive around near the Yucca Mountain Project border. Years ago I went poking around with a Geiger counter and found an area where they were pumping water, perhaps aerating water. All I know is it registered on the Geiger counter and I didn't stick around to take a photograph. It was in free territory, but the area itself was fenced off.