Daring to be Different in the Black Community

All I am seeing is that people of ATS are getting permission to be racist from a black woman.

Since it is OK for her to stereotype here own race as bigots and uneducated fools, they feel they can.

She does not speak for an entire race. She claims she is different than the rest of her "people" she is not, she just has done what some whites want..she has just been assimilated into the white culture.

Are you like a lot of the whites who saw Martin as a gangster, thug, drug dealer and whatever else they can think of calling him. Some of the proud members of ATS have referred to him as an animal. Do you agree?

I saw him as any normal teenager..acting out and nothing more. He was killed for being a young black male who was out at night and anyone who says otherwise is lying to themselves or willfully ignoring that fact.

Zimmerman stereotyped him and died because of that stereotype.

The post above pretty much just said it all.

Originally posted by ButterCookie
As a black woman, I have faced ostracism from the black community for several reasons, most recently because I supported George Zimmerman in Martin/ Zimmerman Case. I began this thread to discuss my issues on this topic and to allow others to ask questions, or share their stories in this struggle with me...

I guess it began childhood. I was born in the South (Memphis) but grew up in the state of Kansas, where the population was 60% white, 20% Native American, and 10% Black, Hispanic and Asian. All my friends were white and Native American, and as children, we embraced the beauty of our different races; it was only when my family moved back to Memphis where racism reared its ugly head. I remember going to the playground and seeing white girls jump roping (for example), and I would stand in line to jump in, and was warmly welcomed. The black girls would pull me to the side afterwards and say,

"Ummm..why were you playing with them?" I would be confused and say, "Because we all wanted to jump rope."

"But they are WHITE."

"Ummm yes. I know that. What's the issue?"

They never had an answer, just stared at me in shock, because I was 'different'.

Later in life, I decided to continue my education. This was shone by lots of members of my family, as I was told I was being "white", and that my pursuit to practice Law afterwards was me being "too good" to work at a 'regular job',

A few years ago, I quit wearing my hair in perm and I now wear it naturally in a beautiful Afro. Of course this was way outside the 'box' for lots of black women in the south, because I was no longer conforming like the 'crowd', wearing perms and weaves.

As a English and Political Science major, I learned a lot about history, politics, and social issues, and have quit voting Democratic (a different thread exists on this). This was another 'blow' to the black community as they saw it, as I was being 'white' for not praising President Obama.

Lastly, I came out of the non-religious 'closet'. Fortunately as a child, I was never fully indoctrinated, but pretended to believe like everyone else...

And now, as a result of the Zimmerman trial, my peers and family have always been aware that I supported George Zimmerman (based on the facts of the case) and today came the backlash and attacks on me. Not physically, but very cruel verbal remarks have been texted to me all day. Mainly from my father...

He and I have always been very close. We both left the religious closet together, but lately I had been seeing that the pressure to rejoin the herd has gotten to him. He now verbally attacks me and says, "You need to come back to the 'black side' and "you're crazy" because I hold firm to independent ways and beliefs. Today after he attacked me for being happy about the Zimmerman verdict, I tried to change the subject by saying, "we should go see a movie, Dad. Pacific Rim is out and it looks good."

He responded, "I don't hang out with Uncle Toms."

I agree with you family and your dad. And the above post.

reply to post by ButterCookie


I grew up in a neighborhood in Arizona. It was predominantly black. In fact we were the only white family in the neighborhood. There was one other family that were Hispanic. All of my friends growing up were black or Navajo. Race was never an issue with me.

It should be said that I grew up in the sixties and seventies at a time when the hippie revolution was going on.
People were simpler then, hell times were simpler then. Jimmy Hendricks was the greatest guitar player that ever lived. It was a beautiful time.

Things are so much more complicated now. With all the pc crap people can't even talk anymore. Back then you were free to say what you wanted to say. Then you were judged by what you said.. Now we live in fear because every thing you say or do can be held against you. Even if you are guilty of doing nothing at all. People being arrested for posts that they make online. Kids being expelled from school for pretending to have a gun. Who cares if it is a pop tart?

The point is I think racism is much worse now than it has ever been. The reason is simple is to keep us divided. There are good and bad in all races. Some people are just scum and there is not much we can do about it. I don't like the Arians and I don't like the Black Panthers. They are both just distractions from what is really going on. People just need to realize that regardless of skin color we are still brothers and sisters. I hope that we can find a way to deal with the divide before it is too late. United we stand divided we fall .

As to your father. I feel bad for you for that. I only hope that one day he realizes you for the treasure that you are. Keep your chin up some of us are on your side.

reply to post by ButterCookie


Hi BC,

Your Op really touched me and I really hope you know that you are NOT alone. I am from a mixed race family and have never understood racism, mean people, and excuses. I should point out that my mother remarried a Hispanic man who later adopted both my sister and me (we are very white). I felt very rejected by my father and I hope you can forgive your dad for his words. I had to forgive mine a long time ago and it helped me. I cannot imagine how hard it must be to be a truth seeker in the black community that seems so filled with hatred for whites.

I am a caregiver and my client is at a nursing home for now. A lot of the night shift workers are black and they were so upset over the Zimmerman verdict. It was obvious by comments a few days back that any support of the facts in the trial was not welcomed, and I just kept my mouth shut. How can we ever have true healing is we cannot even talk openly without assuming an issue of racism?

I gave up on corporate jobs because here in the South there is a lot of what we call reverse racism. I have been screwed over so many times for it that I have truly no desire to use my degree in the corporate world. It really is too painful for me to play those political games as I worked in several State jobs and for some large corporations. I just can't play the game. So, I have chosen to live on less, get by and try to do the best for my family. How do people live a lie?

I hope you can find some support amongst others who feel and think as you do. You are not a traitor to your race, but sound like a woman who just thinks for herself. I'd call you my friend any day!

I find it funny that, here we have a person trying to put out the flame
of a historic racism,.being kind and respectful towards others and
putting forth an effort to encourage others to do the same. and yet
she is getting slammed for the very thing on this thread she has been
trying to avoid. Buttercookie, stay on your path

And as for the others,. how many of you were in the courtroom since this started
or have you just been watching it from the medias spinside?

reply to post by Domo1


you are in deep ....ummm.... doodoo when you think nancy grace is making sense. did anyone else catch her ranting about zimmerman's INTERNAL safety not being on?!?

reply to post by ButterCookie


Your broad generalizations about black people are just plain false. It's perfectly fine for you to say that you feel your father is racist or you've come across black people in Memphis that embraced segregation, but generalizing every black person and every black community across the country is pretty ignorant and narrow minded. Even more so because your perspective isn't even based on you living and traveling to many black communities across the country. Kind of like the pot calling the kettle black.

I have no qualms with your desire to discuss race, but please put your experiences into context and stop trying to present yourself as an expert on how ALL black people act, think, and feel.

So far, all I have seen is a person with a chip on their shoulder. A person who is trying to present a narrow view of all other black people as a way to inflate their own ego. If you are truly daring to be different or special, you should work on improving your communication skills. You can start by presenting your experiences within their proper context and taking care not to make generalizations unless you have facts or some manner of credentials in the subject area being discussed.

If you missed it, please read napayshni57's post. She is not black, but I think her perspective is more valid since she's actually has a broader view based on the different places she's lived.

reply to post by ButterCookie


The nice thing about sites like ATS is that the words we all type are neither white or black.

Ideas, opinions, attitudes, dreams, observations don't have colour.

Nor should they.

Seems more economic than racial. Perhaps certain communities of an ethnicity feel they are locked to a class or caste.

The OP used the phrase "called back to the plantation."

I can say with family and old neighborhood friens there exists a call back to the trailer. Even further. In much the same way that networks like BET are essentially racist blacksploitation factories networks like CMT are whitesploitation.

Everyone gawk at the redneck while simultaneously glorifying the redneck "culture."


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by MaryStillToe

It's perfectly fine for you to say that you feel your father is racist or you've come across black people in Memphis that embraced segregation, but generalizing every black person and every black community across the country is pretty ignorant and narrow minded.

But she didn't generalize it....it's your lack of understanding what was written. Same as there are white racist folks...there are also black racists...she just happens to be in the middle of it and tells what she experiences.

I've heard many times statements like ...."white people are racist"...but since I don't consider myself a racist and I'm white...I find that this statement does not refer to me, and thus I would never take offence.

Same as OP...I'm sure that those black people that aren't racist...will not find themselves in OP's words and will take no offence.

You obviously feel that being black takes precedence over being human.

We all can make many excuses for our lives not being what we would want them to be...race is certainly a good excuse...but it still is an excuse. If it weren't so...there wouldn't be any successful or happy black person in America...yet there are...many. There are successful black busynessmen, judges, wall street brokers, and not to forget...presidents.

I'm glad to see the OP doesn't want excuses...you are who you make yourself to be. You can be black and bitch about it for the rest of your life...even die bitching...but you can choose not to.


To the OP:

I can't believe you father called you "uncle Tom"...so sad.

reply to post by ButterCookie


I consider you 100% my family because well we are it's a fact. Just because my genealogy split from yours for a few thousand years doesn't mean we aren't still essentially distant cousins.

I think you are awesome and support you 100% as you express your true thoughts.

I am an abolitionist as you already may know, and I am telling you "You are Too!".

See today everyone is a slave, everyone of all walks including our rulers. Slaves to lies that are everywhere around us, even to the very system itself. 99% of this is mental hallucination as a result of our propaganda programming.

So thereby speaking the truth as you see it against the illusions and delusions, you are an abolitionist attempting to free the minds of the enslaved from their self-imposed prison of ignorance.

We will free all peoples in time but we must persevere and refuse to give up.
Rely on your faith and strength it is true.

Soon one day all of our children WILL play together without all of these lies ruining their fun.
Our fun. Our lives....

Never give up on Good.

All humans are susceptible to anger, hate, jealousy, greed, racism, whatever.
By revealing the truth they will know their folly eventually.

If someone think in terms of race, they have clouded their mind with falsehoods.
This is a pretty straightforward fact.

It's not just race groups that act this way. It happens with all kinds of groups. People seem to feel the need to group themselves.

Religion groups are the same way, they will spit on someone who they thought were part of their group, but they don't follow the groupthink close enough for their tastes, or god forbid wish to no longer be a part of the group at all.

A few generations ago, you would be disowned for marrying outside your race, and it wasn't just white people that acted that way. I think it is getting better each generation though. Or maybe I am kidding myself.

Originally posted by Domo1
reply to post by supremecommander

 

The day that I was told that because of the fact that I used proper English I was "talking white"

I've never understood this. History is full of very eloquent black people that have done far more for black people than the ones crying Uncle Tom.

It seems so very backwards to think that speaking well is only for whites. To me it seems like telling a woman that because she's good at math she's a sell out to the patriarchy. Utter nonsense.

I grew up in an urban environment where economic conditions were not conducive to proper upbringing. The education system was poor, so much so that my mother(who taught me to read while I was in pre school on her own. Next to my life, that was her greatest gift to me I think.) had to send me outside of the school district. Speaking eloquently as you put it was something that came normally to me...but back where I lived, when I spoke naturally and normally, the other children, through no fault of their own (no one is born predisposed to ignorance, it is something that is learned...a lot of people don't have a chance), began to chide me for talking like a "white boy", which I found to be ridiculous. I eventually realized that my path was different from theirs, and instead of feeling angry about people who looked like me insulting me for that, I felt sorry for them.

It really is a sad state of affairs in the black community, and I say that with love. But the culture is one that embraces a doctrine of ignorance, and when people try to deviate that path or try to uplift, they are met with ridicule, scorn, or last but not least, you're called an uncle tom. It's madness. You have people who cycle in and out of jail being respected more than people who try to go to college, or hard working men who try to establish their own businesses.


Even with this trayvon madness, which is a bunch of media backed racial baiting designed for blacks and whites to aim the knives at each other instead of the elite pieces of filth who are currently playing us all in an open air prison, no one wants to look at facts or how the case was mishandled by the state of Florida. They just want to lash out.

Yet, if a black male was to shoot Trayvon, would these same people even care? When you raise that point, people get offended.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Soon one day all of our children WILL play together without all of these lies ruining their fun.
Our fun. Our lives....

Never give up on Good.

All humans are susceptible to anger, hate, jealousy, greed, racism, whatever.
By revealing the truth they will know their folly eventually.

If someone think in terms of race, they have clouded their mind with falsehoods.
This is a pretty straightforward fact.

Totally agree.

One day, if our species survives, skin color will not be the determining factor.

How stupid is it, eh? SKIN COLOR. Such a trivial thing dividing people who all bleed the same blood!!!

This is madness. Why can't people see that?

Originally posted by Domo1
reply to post by supremecommander

 

The day that I was told that because of the fact that I used proper English I was "talking white"

I've never understood this. History is full of very eloquent black people that have done far more for black people than the ones crying Uncle Tom.

It seems so very backwards to think that speaking well is only for whites. To me it seems like telling a woman that because she's good at math she's a sell out to the patriarchy. Utter nonsense.

Here is part of the problem.
We need to teach kids about people like Frederick Douglass.

Douglass was a firm believer in the equality of all people, whether black, female, Native American, or recent immigrant, famously quoted as saying, "I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong."[9]

My goal being essentially a continuance of this and many other's good work towards harmony of our species.
Hopefully as we spread the truth others will discover their true selves.
And it has nothing to do with "Color".

What is "Love"? What is "Justice"?
It is blind, yet it sees with perfect clarity.

Originally posted by Onslaught2996
All I am seeing is that people of ATS are getting permission to be racist from a black woman.

Since it is OK for her to stereotype here own race as bigots and uneducated fools, they feel they can.

She does not speak for an entire race. She claims she is different than the rest of her "people" she is not, she just has done what some whites want..she has just been assimilated into the white culture.

Are you like a lot of the whites who saw Martin as a gangster, thug, drug dealer and whatever else they can think of calling him. Some of the proud members of ATS have referred to him as an animal. Do you agree?

I saw him as any normal teenager..acting out and nothing more. He was killed for being a young black male who was out at night and anyone who says otherwise is lying to themselves or willfully ignoring that fact.

Zimmerman stereotyped him and died because of that stereotype.

She is not assimilated, she is being HERSELF, and she spoke about how she was chastised for BEING HERSELF.

You're so caught up in racial nonsense that you totally missed her point, and proved her point at the same time. She decided to step back, look at the facts, and make her own opinion. That's what mature adults do.

You act like everyone who has an ounce of melanin in their skin has to look at the case the same way. We do not. I believed from the first day that if anything, Zimmerman should have been tried for manslaughter, not the ridiculous charge that was put forth. The facts and evidence back up his story which would not warrant the charge the state of FL foolishly tried to push on him because they knew damn well it wouldn't stick. Reasonable doubt is reasonable doubt.

Take a step back, stop being caught up in this madness. It will do you no good. I applaud ButterCookie...how anyone could look at a woman whose on father was ignorant enough to call her an Uncle Tom for having her own opinion based on fact with scorn is beyond me.

reply to post by asher


If you agree with a man who would call his own child a derogatory term like that, you may just be a sick individual. Seek help.

Originally posted by napayshni57
reply to post by ButterCookie

 

Being a blonde haired white woman made me feel like a poster child for hatred. I do have some really dear friends that are black. One of the first black friends I met came from the state of Washington. I asked her if it was just me or was it different down here with blacks and whites. She said she didn't understand it either. She'd never seen so much hatred like many of the blacks seem to have because of a persons skin color.

I think the perspective you offered is great and I hope I can help explain why attitudes and behavior can be at extreme opposites among different black communities.

Black people who experienced extreme hate and hostility or are still living around hateful and unwelcoming white communities have learned to hate back. At face value, they can't differentiate between nice white people and bad white people. Based on their experiences, they know that most white people from their area do not like them or want to be around them. As a person from the north, I was shocked to learn they still have segregated proms so its not hard to see they are reacting to their environment.

Do people really expect a person to let go of hate and mistrust when they are still being exposed to unfairness and lack of acceptance? It's logical to think that they should realize not all white people are bad, but perspective and fears are not easy to change.

A friend of mine knows a woman who took in foster children who were abused for about 3 years. The children's biological mother would lock them in the room for days and wouldn't give them any food. Over time, the children learned to hide food in their room so that they would have something to eat when they were locked back in again. Once they got to the foster home, they continued doing the same thing. It took the foster mom 8 years to convince all the the kids that they didn't need to hide food anymore. Despite good treatment, they held on to the mistrust, as it's a reasonable human response to negative experiences.

In the future, if you find yourself surrounded by hateful black communities, look at the history of the area and learn about the surrounding communities. I can guarantee you there is something to be found.

I would like to dare ButterCookie to be different and actually do some research on this and see if areas where her parents were raised or places like Memphis actually have some history that affects why the people feel the way they do. Also,she should offer some ideas that might help improve the situation instead of just ranting about it (there is actually a section for that here on ATS).

Prove that you are a cut above the rest by presenting information that is worthy of discussion, instead of starting these generic and one-dimensional threads.