It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Can God love or have a moral sense?
page: 1share:
Can God love or have a moral sense?
Scriptures tell us that God is the bench mark for morality and love. I think it a foolish saying but many say that God is love. They also say that faith without works and deeds is dead. St James. In that description I include love. Love, without works, deeds and displays of some kind, is dead.
Morality is something that creatures will only develop if living in groups. The same could be said of love. There is no need for morality, good ethics or love if one is alone the way God was for untold millennia before creating anything.
He therefore had no need of morality or love and could not have had them or have any need or desire for them. An Omni-God has no wants or needs.
Morality in that sense is like love and faith. All of these need works and deeds or some form of display, ---- or as scriptures say, ---- they are dead.
God is not doing works and deeds and not showing his so called love of mankind in any knowable way and it would thus be incorrect to say that God is our moral bench mark or that God loves us or anyone else at all.
Perhaps this is why Christians have to develop a double set of moral standards to exonerate the immoral actions that the Christian God does. Christians praise and adore God for doing things that they condemn in man. Christians give a free pass for evil to their God. Somewhat in the same way that God gives Satan a free pass, and in fact, God helps Satan do evil by letting him roam free and even giving Satan the power to deceive us all. Quite the judge that. If he was human, good people would get rid of such, yet God is praised for such evil by his followers.
God does not seem to do works, deeds or other forms of display.
Can God have a moral sense and can he love without ever having to show it?
Are God’s morals and love dead?
Regards
DL
Scriptures tell us that God is the bench mark for morality and love. I think it a foolish saying but many say that God is love. They also say that faith without works and deeds is dead. St James. In that description I include love. Love, without works, deeds and displays of some kind, is dead.
Morality is something that creatures will only develop if living in groups. The same could be said of love. There is no need for morality, good ethics or love if one is alone the way God was for untold millennia before creating anything.
He therefore had no need of morality or love and could not have had them or have any need or desire for them. An Omni-God has no wants or needs.
Morality in that sense is like love and faith. All of these need works and deeds or some form of display, ---- or as scriptures say, ---- they are dead.
God is not doing works and deeds and not showing his so called love of mankind in any knowable way and it would thus be incorrect to say that God is our moral bench mark or that God loves us or anyone else at all.
Perhaps this is why Christians have to develop a double set of moral standards to exonerate the immoral actions that the Christian God does. Christians praise and adore God for doing things that they condemn in man. Christians give a free pass for evil to their God. Somewhat in the same way that God gives Satan a free pass, and in fact, God helps Satan do evil by letting him roam free and even giving Satan the power to deceive us all. Quite the judge that. If he was human, good people would get rid of such, yet God is praised for such evil by his followers.
God does not seem to do works, deeds or other forms of display.
Can God have a moral sense and can he love without ever having to show it?
Are God’s morals and love dead?
Regards
DL
From my point of view. You are just listening to the ones who do not understand why things happened as they did and made small minded interpetration
of if.
The "existing one" is connected to all souls and needs a lot of things from us whatever your bible say. But those things are probably not meant to be known for all. That god is dependent and want symbiosis with every soul when the soul is ready while at the same time playing hide and seek like a child with you.
I had a lot of problem with god and religion and rejected all sprituallity when I was younger. Then I went thru some things and realised that god was not the problem, but humanities view of it.
And yes god can love and seem to teach moral on a level that most humans cannot understand... Evolve to something that feels the light from the other side and the bliss and really experiance what true love/oneness feels like.
The "existing one" is connected to all souls and needs a lot of things from us whatever your bible say. But those things are probably not meant to be known for all. That god is dependent and want symbiosis with every soul when the soul is ready while at the same time playing hide and seek like a child with you.
I had a lot of problem with god and religion and rejected all sprituallity when I was younger. Then I went thru some things and realised that god was not the problem, but humanities view of it.
And yes god can love and seem to teach moral on a level that most humans cannot understand... Evolve to something that feels the light from the other side and the bliss and really experiance what true love/oneness feels like.
edit on 11-7-2013 by LittleByLittle because:
Spellchecking
reply to post by Greatest I am
S/F. Wow, this oughta be a good thread. I don't have any answers yet to offer - but, I don't follow "scripture" - so, my ideas about what "God" is and isn't aren't really appropriate yet. I'll follow along, though.
Have fun - this one should be a doozy. Last time the board discussed "morality" it got pretty intense.
S/F. Wow, this oughta be a good thread. I don't have any answers yet to offer - but, I don't follow "scripture" - so, my ideas about what "God" is and isn't aren't really appropriate yet. I'll follow along, though.
Have fun - this one should be a doozy. Last time the board discussed "morality" it got pretty intense.
reply to post by Greatest I am
I am an Atheist, however I am sensitive to others beliefs so to put myself in the position of a Christian........
God would be unable to have a moral compass because in order to do so, he would have to reason with a preconceived set of beliefs. He does not think like a human, he does not have emotion. He cannot give us free will AND have visible morals because it is counter productive.
Even if he did have morals, he would have to keep them to himself :-)
I am an Atheist, however I am sensitive to others beliefs so to put myself in the position of a Christian........
God would be unable to have a moral compass because in order to do so, he would have to reason with a preconceived set of beliefs. He does not think like a human, he does not have emotion. He cannot give us free will AND have visible morals because it is counter productive.
Even if he did have morals, he would have to keep them to himself :-)
edit on 11-7-2013 by Briles1207 because: (no reason given)
reply to post by Greatest I am
The key to God's love is found in geometry and the photorefractive crystalline structure of the clay we inhabit. There are five shapes in Geometry that then show the physics of creation.
The Tetrahedron
The Cube
The Octahedron
The Polyhedron, and
The Dodecahedron
Crystals can only materialize into these five forms. The photorefractive effect in crystals can store and transmit information and energy. Why is God perfect and good only?
In physics, we are made from these five geometric realities. All of God's laws mirror the physics of invariable symmetry. Look this term up to see that I am correct. For God to create multiplicity from Eternal unity, how can unity and multiplicity exist together at once? Isn't division a contradiction to unity and eternal perfection? Yes and no. The shapes above are seen the same no matter how you turn them. The same for God.
To see this clearly, we compare the lesser case to the greater. What I am showing you is what is referred to as the "Eight-fold Way of Physics." By comparison, we see the eight notes of the musical scale. Frequency relationships in music create the same invariable harmony of the crystals above and music and wave function follow the same ratio as the golden mean. As you rise in the octaves, the golden ration is the curve making the notes change frequency. Harmonics follow this structure and the overtone series mirrors this relationship. There is a problem with this if you want perfected harmonies.
When a piano is tuned, a tuner must compromise to make it sound in tune. In reality, it is not in tune if every half step is perfect by relation to the whole? Why? Copies are just that. The same. With a piano, the tuner can tune to equal temperament. This compromise is the best that can be made for all keys to sound the same. There is still a problem. When notes on the bottom are mirrored perfectly to those in high ranges, they are out of tune, even if the half steps are perfect. What cures this? The tuner stretches the octaves to imperfection. Still, this is a compromise. How, then, do we get a perfect harmony? Simple. Build musicians that can adjust to all context and range of frequency.
With a brass choir, each member stretches and bends each note so that true harmony is found by the imperfection. The point is to build musicians that know the theory, have the practice time in the rehearsal space and have a conductor that can teach them the differences.
From the Mesmeric Revelation of Edgar Allen Poe. Poe asks a man, on his death bed, questions. The catch is, the man is hypnotized. By asking a dying man the questions of existence, the subconscious mind is the closest point between life and God. Poe says this was a muse, but I think his intuition was giving us something of value.
But to what good end is pain thus rendered possible?
V. All things are either good or bad by comparison. A sufficient analysis will show that pleasure in all cases, is but the contrast of pain. Positive pleasure is a mere idea. To be happy at any one point we must have suffered at the same. Never to suffer would have been never to have been blessed. But it has been shown that, in the inorganic life, pain cannot be; thus the necessity for the organic. The pain of the primitive life of Earth, is the sole basis of the bliss of the ultimate life in Heaven. LINK
Reality is our score in life and Poe shows you why. Law is the theory and God is invariable. We are made to be his variables. You can't make music without different notes.
The key to God's love is found in geometry and the photorefractive crystalline structure of the clay we inhabit. There are five shapes in Geometry that then show the physics of creation.
The Tetrahedron
The Cube
The Octahedron
The Polyhedron, and
The Dodecahedron
Crystals can only materialize into these five forms. The photorefractive effect in crystals can store and transmit information and energy. Why is God perfect and good only?
In physics, we are made from these five geometric realities. All of God's laws mirror the physics of invariable symmetry. Look this term up to see that I am correct. For God to create multiplicity from Eternal unity, how can unity and multiplicity exist together at once? Isn't division a contradiction to unity and eternal perfection? Yes and no. The shapes above are seen the same no matter how you turn them. The same for God.
To see this clearly, we compare the lesser case to the greater. What I am showing you is what is referred to as the "Eight-fold Way of Physics." By comparison, we see the eight notes of the musical scale. Frequency relationships in music create the same invariable harmony of the crystals above and music and wave function follow the same ratio as the golden mean. As you rise in the octaves, the golden ration is the curve making the notes change frequency. Harmonics follow this structure and the overtone series mirrors this relationship. There is a problem with this if you want perfected harmonies.
When a piano is tuned, a tuner must compromise to make it sound in tune. In reality, it is not in tune if every half step is perfect by relation to the whole? Why? Copies are just that. The same. With a piano, the tuner can tune to equal temperament. This compromise is the best that can be made for all keys to sound the same. There is still a problem. When notes on the bottom are mirrored perfectly to those in high ranges, they are out of tune, even if the half steps are perfect. What cures this? The tuner stretches the octaves to imperfection. Still, this is a compromise. How, then, do we get a perfect harmony? Simple. Build musicians that can adjust to all context and range of frequency.
With a brass choir, each member stretches and bends each note so that true harmony is found by the imperfection. The point is to build musicians that know the theory, have the practice time in the rehearsal space and have a conductor that can teach them the differences.
From the Mesmeric Revelation of Edgar Allen Poe. Poe asks a man, on his death bed, questions. The catch is, the man is hypnotized. By asking a dying man the questions of existence, the subconscious mind is the closest point between life and God. Poe says this was a muse, but I think his intuition was giving us something of value.
But to what good end is pain thus rendered possible?
V. All things are either good or bad by comparison. A sufficient analysis will show that pleasure in all cases, is but the contrast of pain. Positive pleasure is a mere idea. To be happy at any one point we must have suffered at the same. Never to suffer would have been never to have been blessed. But it has been shown that, in the inorganic life, pain cannot be; thus the necessity for the organic. The pain of the primitive life of Earth, is the sole basis of the bliss of the ultimate life in Heaven. LINK
Reality is our score in life and Poe shows you why. Law is the theory and God is invariable. We are made to be his variables. You can't make music without different notes.
edit on 11-7-2013 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)
reply to post by Greatest I am
Morality is just a set of rules that a person develops based on the principle of exercising ones freedom without impinging upon someone else's freedom. In other words the Golden rule.
The ability of having better morality depends upon the level of understanding of the person.
1)Not directly hurting/harming others is the least.
2) helping others in need is a higher morality that develops after one has a sense of belonging to a group.
God has the best authority to give an absolute morality as God is All Knowing and so can understand the effect of every action and how far its ripples can go and may end up harming someone indirectly which we can't figure out due to limited understanding.
God however does not need Morality as God is free of needs and so there is no conflict with ways to get any needs fulfilled.
We need Morality as what we need and try to acquire may hurt someone else.
God is Absolutely Moral because of His Absolute Knowledge.
In short God does not need to be Moral but God is Moral and God is not answerable to anyone. It would be arrogant to even demand that because then the one demanding it is forgetting his/her place and the extreme limited understanding.
It would be like a pocket calculator challenging a super computer about solving an equation thats WAY beyond the capacity of the tiny calculator!
Morality is just a set of rules that a person develops based on the principle of exercising ones freedom without impinging upon someone else's freedom. In other words the Golden rule.
The ability of having better morality depends upon the level of understanding of the person.
1)Not directly hurting/harming others is the least.
2) helping others in need is a higher morality that develops after one has a sense of belonging to a group.
God has the best authority to give an absolute morality as God is All Knowing and so can understand the effect of every action and how far its ripples can go and may end up harming someone indirectly which we can't figure out due to limited understanding.
God however does not need Morality as God is free of needs and so there is no conflict with ways to get any needs fulfilled.
We need Morality as what we need and try to acquire may hurt someone else.
God is Absolutely Moral because of His Absolute Knowledge.
In short God does not need to be Moral but God is Moral and God is not answerable to anyone. It would be arrogant to even demand that because then the one demanding it is forgetting his/her place and the extreme limited understanding.
It would be like a pocket calculator challenging a super computer about solving an equation thats WAY beyond the capacity of the tiny calculator!
Originally posted by Greatest I am
Can God love or have a moral sense?
Scriptures tell us that God is the bench mark for morality and love. I think it a foolish saying but many say that God is love. They also say that faith without works and deeds is dead. St James. In that description I include love. Love, without works, deeds and displays of some kind, is dead.
Morality is something that creatures will only develop if living in groups. The same could be said of love. There is no need for morality, good ethics or love if one is alone the way God was for untold millennia before creating anything.
He therefore had no need of morality or love and could not have had them or have any need or desire for them. An Omni-God has no wants or needs.
Morality in that sense is like love and faith. All of these need works and deeds or some form of display, ---- or as scriptures say, ---- they are dead.
God is not doing works and deeds and not showing his so called love of mankind in any knowable way and it would thus be incorrect to say that God is our moral bench mark or that God loves us or anyone else at all.
Perhaps this is why Christians have to develop a double set of moral standards to exonerate the immoral actions that the Christian God does. Christians praise and adore God for doing things that they condemn in man. Christians give a free pass for evil to their God. Somewhat in the same way that God gives Satan a free pass, and in fact, God helps Satan do evil by letting him roam free and even giving Satan the power to deceive us all. Quite the judge that. If he was human, good people would get rid of such, yet God is praised for such evil by his followers.
God does not seem to do works, deeds or other forms of display.
Can God have a moral sense and can he love without ever having to show it?
Are God’s morals and love dead?
Regards
DL
The answer is Yes. within God is the essence of macro-emotion, which he was able to pass on to us in the micro. God is indeed love as love is the bridge, neutrality, equilibrium point between 2 opposing forces. it can be said to carry both elements of both sides, but is neither one alone.
the difference between God's macro-emotion and our micro-emotion child of God's is in intensity of the emotions that God can portray or radiate. man can radiate a smaller amount of each emotion. also, even though we have a smaller subset of power in our emotions at our disposal, we are very much controlled by them in various situations. God is not controlled by his emotions even tho they are so gigantically more powerful than our own, he wields his emotional abilities as a tool.
Thus God contains within him the macro of all emotions we are aware of and quite well some we are not aware of. which is why God is capable of Love, or wrath! when he uses his wrath, it is a tool of necessity. how many times did your dad tell you not to steal the car? you're grounded for 2 weeks, no tv and no playstation.. read a book!
edit on 11-7-2013 by filledcup because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by LittleByLittle
From my point of view. You are just listening to the ones who do not understand why things happened as they did and made small minded interpetration of if.
The "existing one" is connected to all souls and needs a lot of things from us whatever your bible say. But those things are probably not meant to be known for all. That god is dependent and want symbiosis with every soul when the soul is ready while at the same time playing hide and seek like a child with you.
I had a lot of problem with god and religion and rejected all sprituallity when I was younger. Then I went thru some things and realised that god was not the problem, but humanities view of it.
And yes god can love and seem to teach moral on a level that most humans cannot understand... Evolve to something that feels the light from the other side and the bliss and really experiance what true love/oneness feels like.edit on 11-7-2013 by LittleByLittle because: Spellchecking
Well put.
I agree with your first from a first hand basis and knowledge. No proof of course. I don't think there can be any.
I do not agree since the Godhead I found has more to give us than us it although the positive emotion when one of us finds it is rather overwhelming. I would not call it love but joy.
Let me give you my anecdotal story.
The Godhead I know in a nutshell.
I was a skeptic till the age of 39.
I then had an apotheosis and later branded myself an esoteric ecumenist and Gnostic Christian. Gnostic Christian because I exemplify this quote from William Blake.
“Both read the Bible day and night, But thou read'st black where I read white.”
This refers to how Gnostics tend to reverse, for moral reasons, what Christians see in the Bible. We tend to recognize the evil ways of O T God where literal Christians will see God’s killing as good. Christians are sheep where Gnostic Christians are goats.
This is perhaps why we see the use of a Jesus scapegoat as immoral, while theists like to make Jesus their beast of burden. An immoral position.
During my apotheosis, something that only lasted 5 or 6 seconds, the only things of note to happen was that my paradigm of reality was confirmed and I was chastised to think more demographically. What I found was what I call a cosmic consciousness. Not a new term but one that is a close but not exact fit.
I recognize that I have no proof. That is always the way with apotheosis.
This is also why I prefer to stick to issues of morality because no one has yet been able to prove that God is real and I have no more proof than they for the cosmic consciousness.
The cosmic consciousness is not a miracle working God. He does not interfere with us save when one of us finds it. Not a common thing from what I can see. It is a part of nature and our next evolutionary step.
I tend to have more in common with atheists who ignore what they see as my delusion because our morals are basically identical. Theist tend not to like me much as I have no respect for literalists and fundamentals and think that most Christians have tribal mentalities and poor morals.
I am rather between a rock and a hard place but this I cannot help.
I am happy to be questioned on what I believe but whether or not God exists is basically irrelevant to this world for all that he does not do, and I prefer to thrash out moral issues that can actually find an end point. The search for God is never ending when you are of the Gnostic persuasion. My apotheosis basically says that I am to discard whatever God I found, God as a set of rules that is, not idol worship it but instead, raise my bar and seek further.
My apotheosis also showed me that God has no need for love, adoration or obedience. He has no needs. Man has dominion here on earth and is to be and is the supreme being.
Regards
DL
Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by Greatest I am
S/F. Wow, this oughta be a good thread. I don't have any answers yet to offer - but, I don't follow "scripture" - so, my ideas about what "God" is and isn't aren't really appropriate yet. I'll follow along, though.
Have fun - this one should be a doozy. Last time the board discussed "morality" it got pretty intense.
Thanks.
Many believers run from moral discussions because they have to develop a double standard of morality to pardon their God for doing what they condemn people for doing.
I think it hypocritical but they think it ok because ----- God can do whatever he likes, moral or not, because he owns us.
Regards
DL
Originally posted by Briles1207
reply to post by Greatest I am
I am an Atheist, however I am sensitive to others beliefs so to put myself in the position of a Christian........
God would be unable to have a moral compass because in order to do so, he would have to reason with a preconceived set of beliefs. He does not think like a human, he does not have emotion. He cannot give us free will AND have visible morals because it is counter productive.
Even if he did have morals, he would have to keep them to himself :-)
edit on 11-7-2013 by Briles1207 because: (no reason given)
Hardly what a Christian would say but thanks for this.
Regards
DL
Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by Greatest I am
Morality is just a set of rules that a person develops based on the principle of exercising ones freedom without impinging upon someone else's freedom. In other words the Golden rule.
The ability of having better morality depends upon the level of understanding of the person.
1)Not directly hurting/harming others is the least.
2) helping others in need is a higher morality that develops after one has a sense of belonging to a group.
God has the best authority to give an absolute morality as God is All Knowing and so can understand the effect of every action and how far its ripples can go and may end up harming someone indirectly which we can't figure out due to limited understanding.
God however does not need Morality as God is free of needs and so there is no conflict with ways to get any needs fulfilled.
We need Morality as what we need and try to acquire may hurt someone else.
God is Absolutely Moral because of His Absolute Knowledge.
In short God does not need to be Moral but God is Moral and God is not answerable to anyone. It would be arrogant to even demand that because then the one demanding it is forgetting his/her place and the extreme limited understanding.
It would be like a pocket calculator challenging a super computer about solving an equation thats WAY beyond the capacity of the tiny calculator!
Morality is just a set of rules that a person develops based on the principle of exercising ones freedom without impinging upon someone else's freedom. In other words the Golden rule.
The ability of having better morality depends upon the level of understanding of the person.
I can live with this above.
====================================================
"1)Not directly hurting/harming others is the least. "
How about indirectly?
If I were to say that Satan moved me to allow or do harm to another, is it a sin and evil?
If God were to say that Satan moved him to allow or do harm to another, is it a sin and evil?
===================================================
"2) helping others in need is a higher morality that develops after one has a sense of belonging to a group."
I can live with this.
====================================
" God has the best authority to give an absolute morality as God is All Knowing and so can understand the effect of every action and how far its ripples can go and may end up harming someone indirectly which we can't figure out due to limited understanding. "
What you say of God can only be assumption as we are told he is unfathomable. That means that you cannot know if what you said is the truth. Further, in terms of morality, God in Eden said that A & E had developed his moral sense so that negates what you just said. God having murdered A & E through neglect also can be argued against your God and his absolute morality.
======================================
" God however does not need Morality as God is free of needs and so there is no conflict with ways to get any needs fulfilled. "
Both these questions say that he does need it.
How could God create the tree of knowledge without a sense of morality to tell him what is good and what is evil?
How can he teach us morality if he has none?
==================================
" We need Morality as what we need and try to acquire may hurt someone else."
Yes but there is no way for us not to hurt others. I will put a long post below this one. Please have a look and respond.
=======================================
" God is Absolutely Moral because of His Absolute Knowledge. "
Wrong. Scriptures say that he did not know of the iniquity in Satan.
========================================
" In short God does not need to be Moral but God is Moral and God is not answerable to anyone. It would be arrogant to even demand that because then the one demanding it is forgetting his/her place and the extreme limited understanding.
It would be like a pocket calculator challenging a super computer about solving an equation thats WAY beyond the capacity of the tiny calculator!"
Again. I would point out what God said to A & E in Eden. You may not be bright enough but some of us are.
Self-deprecation is a high display of egotism. Stop it.
Regards
DL
edit on 12-7-2013 by Greatest I am because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by logical7
!
This is why you and I cannot help but do evil.
Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.
That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."
But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.
If all sin by nature then, the sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not sin.
Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that evil is all human generated. Evil is our responsibility.
Much has been written to explain what I see as a natural part of evolution.
Consider.
First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims are created.
Evil then is only human to human.
As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate.
Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil at all times.
Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct.
This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well.
Be you a believer in nature, evolution or God, we should all see that what Christians see as something to blame, evil, we should see that what we have, competition, deserves a huge thanks for being available to us.
There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be. We all must do what some will think is evil as we compete and create losers to this competition.
Regards
DL
Originally posted by filledcup
Originally posted by Greatest I am
Can God love or have a moral sense?
Scriptures tell us that God is the bench mark for morality and love. I think it a foolish saying but many say that God is love. They also say that faith without works and deeds is dead. St James. In that description I include love. Love, without works, deeds and displays of some kind, is dead.
Morality is something that creatures will only develop if living in groups. The same could be said of love. There is no need for morality, good ethics or love if one is alone the way God was for untold millennia before creating anything.
He therefore had no need of morality or love and could not have had them or have any need or desire for them. An Omni-God has no wants or needs.
Morality in that sense is like love and faith. All of these need works and deeds or some form of display, ---- or as scriptures say, ---- they are dead.
God is not doing works and deeds and not showing his so called love of mankind in any knowable way and it would thus be incorrect to say that God is our moral bench mark or that God loves us or anyone else at all.
Perhaps this is why Christians have to develop a double set of moral standards to exonerate the immoral actions that the Christian God does. Christians praise and adore God for doing things that they condemn in man. Christians give a free pass for evil to their God. Somewhat in the same way that God gives Satan a free pass, and in fact, God helps Satan do evil by letting him roam free and even giving Satan the power to deceive us all. Quite the judge that. If he was human, good people would get rid of such, yet God is praised for such evil by his followers.
God does not seem to do works, deeds or other forms of display.
Can God have a moral sense and can he love without ever having to show it?
Are God’s morals and love dead?
Regards
DL
The answer is Yes. within God is the essence of macro-emotion, which he was able to pass on to us in the micro. God is indeed love as love is the bridge, neutrality, equilibrium point between 2 opposing forces. it can be said to carry both elements of both sides, but is neither one alone.
the difference between God's macro-emotion and our micro-emotion child of God's is in intensity of the emotions that God can portray or radiate. man can radiate a smaller amount of each emotion. also, even though we have a smaller subset of power in our emotions at our disposal, we are very much controlled by them in various situations. God is not controlled by his emotions even tho they are so gigantically more powerful than our own, he wields his emotional abilities as a tool.
Thus God contains within him the macro of all emotions we are aware of and quite well some we are not aware of. which is why God is capable of Love, or wrath! when he uses his wrath, it is a tool of necessity. how many times did your dad tell you not to steal the car? you're grounded for 2 weeks, no tv and no playstation.. read a book!edit on 11-7-2013 by filledcup because: (no reason given)
If we get our emotions from God as you say, and he has all that great control, why are we humans so screwed up emotionally.
Is he downloading a virus along with them or is it just his competence?
If God has that great a control, how is it that he hated Esau even before he could do either good or evil?
Regards
DL
Originally posted by Greatest I am
Can God love or have a moral sense?
Scriptures tell us that God is the bench mark for morality and love. I think it a foolish saying but many say that God is love. They also say that faith without works and deeds is dead. St James. In that description I include love. Love, without works, deeds and displays of some kind, is dead.
Morality is something that creatures will only develop if living in groups. The same could be said of love. There is no need for morality, good ethics or love if one is alone the way God was for untold millennia before creating anything.
He therefore had no need of morality or love and could not have had them or have any need or desire for them. An Omni-God has no wants or needs.
Morality in that sense is like love and faith. All of these need works and deeds or some form of display, ---- or as scriptures say, ---- they are dead.
God is not doing works and deeds and not showing his so called love of mankind in any knowable way and it would thus be incorrect to say that God is our moral bench mark or that God loves us or anyone else at all.
Perhaps this is why Christians have to develop a double set of moral standards to exonerate the immoral actions that the Christian God does. Christians praise and adore God for doing things that they condemn in man. Christians give a free pass for evil to their God. Somewhat in the same way that God gives Satan a free pass, and in fact, God helps Satan do evil by letting him roam free and even giving Satan the power to deceive us all. Quite the judge that. If he was human, good people would get rid of such, yet God is praised for such evil by his followers.
God does not seem to do works, deeds or other forms of display.
Can God have a moral sense and can he love without ever having to show it?
Are God’s morals and love dead?
Regards
DL
To begin with it appears you have humanistic concept of God. To begin with God is not a man and His ways are higher and different than mans ways. The bible says that one can not understand spiritual things because man is carnally minded unless one is born from above. God’s greatest show of love is the fact that Jesus came to make a way back to God that had been severed by the acts of Adam and Eve.
Originally posted by Greatest I am
If we get our emotions from God as you say, and he has all that great control, why are we humans so screwed up emotionally.
Is he downloading a virus along with them or is it just his competence?
If God has that great a control, how is it that he hated Esau even before he could do either good or evil?
Regards
DL
please note i stated we only possess a fraction of the power of emotion that the father possesses. and yet, he has control over his gigantic and awesome power. and even though we have just a fraction, we let it control us and are not fully in control of our emotions. so that's our task. to learn to control ourselves.
your question on esau is largely out of context. however.. i know it says that esau married canaanite women and that grieved his parents. they then blessed jacob. he also sold his birthright for a pot of stew? he was a dodgy bloke from the start. even plotting to kill jacob. God didnt force him to do these things. he plotted them all on his own. but God saw them coming knew he would do those things from before he was born. and was prophecying to Rebekah of what would happen, rather than commanding or instructing it.
"Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come and Sarah shall have a son. And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth) It was said unto her, the elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." (Romans 9:7-13).
it is clear here. esau was a man of the flesh. he placed material cravings on high and cared not to serve the Lord. esau chose to be such a man of his own will. jacob would be one to calleth.. but esau would not.
later God is recounting the events as they have already happened.
"I have loved you, saith the Lord. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the Lord: yet I loved Jacob, And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness." - Malachi 1:2-3
he is recounting events now after they are all grown up and rule their own nations.
seems God was really pissed about selling the birthright. he has also made it clear, that divine right is not attributed by blood relation alone. But by who calleth!! And Receiveth!!
Originally posted by Greatest I am
Can God love or have a moral sense?
Only if IT is human (presupposing it has a functional brain and working adrenals). It has to be gross matter that is bipeal with opposable thumbs AND have a Eton/Harrow, Oxford/Loyola/Moody Institute education to satisfy some. How does one as a gaseous commodity think?
edit on 13-7-2013 by
vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by guitarplayer
[
To begin with it appears you have humanistic concept of God. To begin with God is not a man and His ways are higher and different than mans ways. The bible says that one can not understand spiritual things because man is carnally minded unless one is born from above. God’s greatest show of love is the fact that Jesus came to make a way back to God that had been severed by the acts of Adam and Eve.
I would say that your genocidal son murderers ways are way lower than man's. But this aside for now.
You have man controlling God's actions. He is the one who decides whom to sever or not to sever.
If God chose a simple act by his children after he set Satan on them as his excuse to murder them through neglect and forcefully keep them from what would keep them alive, the tree of life, then by any human standard, he is a murderer.
You adore a murderer who has no morals.
The Jews knew this was the case and that is why they let their interpretation o0f Eden stand and rejected what Christian made of what they saw as man's elevation.
www.mrrena.com...
What do you see wrong in A & E becoming as Gods and having their eyes opened?
Would you think humans to be better not being God like in the moral sense and our eyes closed?
Regards
DL
edit on 14-7-2013 by Greatest I am because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by filledcup
Originally posted by Greatest I am
If we get our emotions from God as you say, and he has all that great control, why are we humans so screwed up emotionally.
Is he downloading a virus along with them or is it just his competence?
If God has that great a control, how is it that he hated Esau even before he could do either good or evil?
Regards
DL
please note i stated we only possess a fraction of the power of emotion that the father possesses. and yet, he has control over his gigantic and awesome power. and even though we have just a fraction, we let it control us and are not fully in control of our emotions. so that's our task. to learn to control ourselves.
your question on esau is largely out of context. however.. i know it says that esau married canaanite women and that grieved his parents. they then blessed jacob. he also sold his birthright for a pot of stew? he was a dodgy bloke from the start. even plotting to kill jacob. God didnt force him to do these things. he plotted them all on his own. but God saw them coming knew he would do those things from before he was born. and was prophecying to Rebekah of what would happen, rather than commanding or instructing it.
"Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come and Sarah shall have a son. And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth) It was said unto her, the elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." (Romans 9:7-13).
it is clear here. esau was a man of the flesh. he placed material cravings on high and cared not to serve the Lord. esau chose to be such a man of his own will. jacob would be one to calleth.. but esau would not.
later God is recounting the events as they have already happened.
"I have loved you, saith the Lord. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the Lord: yet I loved Jacob, And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness." - Malachi 1:2-3
he is recounting events now after they are all grown up and rule their own nations.
seems God was really pissed about selling the birthright. he has also made it clear, that divine right is not attributed by blood relation alone. But by who calleth!! And Receiveth!!
So hating someone for something they have yet to do is God having good control of his emotions.
Got it. Don't see it. I see hate of an as yet innocent fetus as lack of control.
"we let it control us and are not fully in control of our emotions."
So God gives us emotions with defective control mechanisms. Ok.
Is there anything that your God has done right?
Regards
DL
Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Originally posted by Greatest I am
Can God love or have a moral sense?
Only if IT is human (presupposing it has a functional brain and working adrenals). It has to be gross matter that is bipeal with opposable thumbs AND have a Eton/Harrow, Oxford/Loyola/Moody Institute education to satisfy some. How does one as a gaseous commodity think?edit on 13-7-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)
I agree that only if he is human. After all, we created him in our image.
Regards
DL
Originally posted by Greatest I am
Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Originally posted by Greatest I am
Can God love or have a moral sense?
Only if IT is human (presupposing it has a functional brain and working adrenals). It has to be gross matter that is bipeal with opposable thumbs AND have a Eton/Harrow, Oxford/Loyola/Moody Institute education to satisfy some. How does one as a gaseous commodity think?edit on 13-7-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)
I agree that only if he is human. After all, we created him in our image.Regards DL
HAPPY THOUGHTS; YOU HAVE MADE MY DAY. Of course we created him in our own image, because we have only the 'human standards and procedural book' to go by.
new topics
-
Of course it was DEI
Dissecting Disinformation: 2 hours ago -
2nd Day Thanksgiving!...(leftovers!!)
General Chit Chat: 4 hours ago
top topics
-
New Disney Star Wars Films Failing Test of Time?
Movies: 16 hours ago, 5 flags -
2nd Day Thanksgiving!...(leftovers!!)
General Chit Chat: 4 hours ago, 3 flags -
Of course it was DEI
Dissecting Disinformation: 2 hours ago, 3 flags
active topics
-
Of course it was DEI
Dissecting Disinformation • 9 • : fringeofthefringe -
-@TH3WH17ERABB17- -Q- ---TIME TO SHOW THE WORLD--- -Part- --44--
Dissecting Disinformation • 3417 • : brewtiger123 -
2nd Day Thanksgiving!...(leftovers!!)
General Chit Chat • 6 • : DontTreadOnMe -
Mass UAP events. DC. Machester Airport, UFOs over sub base in CT, Nuke bases.
Aliens and UFOs • 25 • : rickymouse -
New Disney Star Wars Films Failing Test of Time?
Movies • 18 • : Popoll -
Unidentified Flying Objects Over U.S. Military Bases in Northeast UK, as of roughly 11 a.m. CST.
Aliens and UFOs • 32 • : Kangawoo2 -
The Party of Peace - Trump Cabinet Picks Targeted with Death Threats
US Political Madness • 51 • : RazorV66 -
Results of the use of the Oreshnik missile system in Dnepropetrovsk
World War Three • 263 • : DontTreadOnMe -
Anyone like the Scorpions?
Music • 23 • : Flyingclaydisk -
The Cost of True Discipleship—Count the Cost
Religion, Faith, And Theology • 5 • : alwaysbeenhere2