The Language of Vampyr

reply to post by Taupin Desciple


I thought Tom did a great job with that movie. He was playing the flake role. That tool who walks into a pool hall spinning their cue around. I have seen many players like that. Though most of them were nowhere near as good as Vince.

Anyhow, yeah, I think it kind of touches on what they were saying at FL about speaking Russian but not feeling Russian.
Your language influences the way you think and feel.

Originally posted by Kantzveldt

I've had the advantage here of considering the contents of the website for a couple of months prior to posting, and so I've been running my own mental Venn diagrams as it were, with regards to who might be interested in one aspect of the sites contents but not another, and what I'm seeing here to some extent is people focusing on an aspect of the contents that appeals to them and seems natural that a working group could be set up toward research in that area, but disregarding many other areas of interest found in the greater content.

Much in the same way that different people on that site post their own personal viewpoints to whole of the topic. Different pieces of the puzzle that make the whole of the puzzle what it is. It's all relevant to the topic at hand because, collectively, they all make the topic what it is. Maybe this helps explain their fascination with mirror images.

That being the case, these are different people, yet all of like mind, coming together for unified purpose. And doing a damn good job of it I might add. I only hope that their goal is a good one. I don't think I'd like the outcome if it were otherwise.

Logocracy is the rule of, or government by, WORDS. It is derived from the Greek λόγος (logos) - "word" and from κράτος (kratos) - to "govern"

I'd rather be governed by words then by the people who butcher them and insert their own bias into them under the guise of their meanings being for my own good. Thanks, but I'll be the one determining what is in my best interests, or not.

Anonymity concerning the origin of words meant to influence, is what gives the meanings of the words more effect, power, substance and purity.

reply to post by pthena



Apart from the question of who could be behind this group there is also the question perhaps of who might be against, as i identified their activities with the Gallu Demons of Sumeria i shall set a paradigm there.

The Gallu Demons are mentioned in attempting to assist Enki in his recovery of the Mes Tablets, containing the words of power and authority, after Inanna has got them off him and made her way back to Uruk with them.


In effect Enki was running the Gallu Demons there as they had common cause, he wanted the Tablets back, they still wanted them back from the time Enlil usurped them, in terms of our paradigm and any connection to the present we would need to identify the present day aspect of Enki,and his going concerns;


Enki as Yahweh


In my opinion then Enki would be represented through the activities of his Chosen People and their Sionist associates, and curiously they would find common cause with the Gallu in these areas.

So as the story goes Enki despatches the Gallu to recover the tablets and it is Nin-Subur Minister of Inanna who blocks this attempt, Nin-Subur meaning Lady of the East, an identification with Morning Star aspect of Venus, i cover her aspects here;


Uruk Rises Again


Despite Nin-Subur being seemingly totally obscure in the present, in fact she is found in the Chinese cult of Guan Yin and Hindu-Buddhist aspect as Tara, and is thus currently the Goddess with the most followers in the world arguably, a force then overlooked, that moves in mysterious ways, generally feline...







She has authority over the Great Gate of the East and watches Inanna's handbag isn't snatched.

Hi Folks,

The complex mathematical 'formulae' are from a branch of mathematics called differential topology. In about 1970 mathematicians and linguists agreed that there were a relatively small number of topological structures which represented underlying events that occurred in our exterior world. We use language to describe and accommodate that exterior world, yet, despite the fact that we have so many languages in use, all of these languages sit atop, a single, underlying structural topology. Differential topology is the branch of mathematics that deals with that, and that is able to describe it so that it can be taught to computers.

The research in phonetics is related, likely, to the common structure of languages that is found in phonemes and the shaping of speech and utterances, called phonology.

You know, Ray Kurzweil has been around lately talking about how we are going to upload our brains in to computers by 2045; he is being very optimistic. Even Steve Wozniak is merely hopeful that we will achieve that kind of success with natural language recognition; we are a lot farther from that than Siri might have you believe.

If you are looking for a 'defense' application for this type of research it might be applied to something like teaching technological devices (smart-pads, whatever) to decipher what someone is saying without knowing what language they are speaking, by recognizing phonetic structure.

The thing to realize is that what is being said here is that this limited collection of 'structures' that reflect our common linguistic structure are possibly as complex as the structure of a fractal. Or, at least that they are taken to be as so, so that these structures can be defined, represented and worked with.

*Ed. When someone is observing an event in space-time and using language to describe the event...


"As the function parameters change, what was once a local minimum may find itself in the basin of attraction of another one. The process will then suddenly switch from the old local minumum to the new. This is a catastrophe."

"The set of points in parameter space at which catastrophes occur is the catastrophe locus. To a large extent, catastrophe loci (edges, changes) are the data furnished by our senses. For us to perceive a catastrophe in our 4-dimensional space-time, there must be a 4-dimensional sheet running through parameter space which intersects the catastrophe locus transversely, i.e. crosswise. Otherwise an infinitesimal displacement would make the catastrophe disappear, and we would have no chance of seeing it.

"If a process in space-time can be characterized by one of these catastrophes, then the mental process which apprehends it will mimic that catastrophe, and the syntax of a verb phrase describing it will correspond to the topology of a one-dimensional section through its parameter space.

(*Thom lists sixteen such topologies in Topologie ...). In particular the number of arguments of the verb (subject, object, instrument, destination) corresponds to the number of minima that can simultaneously coexist. In all of Thom's sixteen examples this number is less than or equal to four; this corresponds to the linguistic observation that in general a verb can have at most four arguments."

www.ams.org...

So, that's what the complex mathematics are for: the underpinnings of language are studied by comparing the structure of how we perceive an event and express it through language, to the structure of the external event itself, using a certain kind of calculus. They need that math to create the software that produces these 'languages'.

Other than that, I would suggest this link...

Natural Language Processing

What their software does is no small beans in the world of Natural Language Processing. No small beans by any measure.



*Catastrophe Theory

reply to post by cuckooold


Generally no.

Second.

reply to post by Brotherman


I would dude as it sounds sort of interesting. But do not have the time or the inclinations, and really it just seems a hobby or thing some people get together to do, there are plenty of those around. Maybe at some other time, don't really get why they create videos of faces and the whole background noise, but whatever.

reply to post by galadofwarthethird


My guess is the natural process of the artists mind making more complete and complex works based out of interests and abstraction, their work in phonosemantics and synesthesia support this in order to understand this progression perhaps you should check out alot of this persons earlier works in the fields of visual/ audio arts

HERE

Alot of the work that this person does in regards to language expands very far beyond old writing actually it delves very heavily into sound/ visual connection where as there is no known reason why this should be, they are interested in higher communications so it makes total sense that artistically this is where this interest lays and is embedded as part of there work. Music without words like classical music evokes emotion without worded syllables to make you understand so sound and human emotion are connected along with visual stimuli so communication reaches far outside of just speaking, I surmise this is why they use sound and a style of mantra in these videos. This is also one reason I would suggest they formated their cessini diskus to be heard but not exclusively for that reason there is many others.

reply to post by Brotherman

OK that short vid with the robotic golden eyed girl was pretty interesting, but watching it and the other vids the only words that come to mind are. "Oh great another nut that wants to be cracked" I mean WTF, who is this ayndryl weirdo and why do they keep making all those videos? Besides and, at least on the whole Cassini disk thing or on the subject of a universal space language, alien message encoding thing, well sound is a property not existent in space, in some instances you could even say that talking and rhyme and song is a completely alien concept outside of a planetary body. By what measure would any of that being encoded into music and visuals would they relate outside of a planetary body? Words and languages are just in alot of way products of there environments, but when the environment changes so drastically you got to wonder would any of that even be necessary.

Sorry but music and singing is just noise humans tend to make with there facial flaps, its just something that lives and lasts for but moments, it has its moments but those are soon gone usually in a few minutes. I suppose that is were spacial sequencing and directions would come in but to communicate without words or something like that medium. I do not think its very you know circumspect, it can be interpreted as anything literally. And look at that links vids, you have sometimes two or more opposing things being translated, the visuals say one thing the audio another, its you know if there is a message you would have to be clued in first to it or else you would just be guessing. I mean don't get me wrong even with words or captions you are still guessing but at least the plot is coagulant. Though that vid with the antelope running into a tree while the lions sit and watch is hilarious, even the sounds are hilarious. I suppose that would be what you call fast food on delivery for the lions.

Besides dude, you really have to ask yourself. Would not the language of the Vampyr have to be invited in also? Ever hear of those myths about why vampiers have to be invited in? No worries tough if you accidentally invited one in all you have to do is keep a bag of rice by the door then spill it on the floor and while its busy counting all of that, you properly pull a disappearing trick and leave its ass in the dust. Keep them dazed and confused always counting and always guessing, works every time. But off-course for every negative aspect of such a nature there is a positive, in there very nature therein keeps things running without outside influence, on a more primal route and node. Myths and codes no! Seems like a great waste of time for some other time.

reply to post by galadofwarthethird

And look at that links vids, you have sometimes two or more opposing things being translated, the visuals say one thing the audio another,

Maybe that is the point..... To see how much our language directs us. If we visually see something, but hear communication that differs, what do we as humans do?

reply to post by galadofwarthethird


Maybe you should read all of this:

Categorization and Analysis of Text in Computer Mediated Communication Archives Using Visualization
Ahmed Abbasi and Hsinchun Chen
Artificial Intelligence Lab
ahmedabbasi.com...

From Protolanguage to Language: model of a transition
Jean-Louis Dessalles
ParisTech-Ecole Nationale Superieure des Telecommunications
Paris-France
perso.telecom-paristech.fr...

Responding to Subliminal Cues: Do If-Then Plans Facilitate Action
Preparation and Initation Without Concious Intent?
Ute C. Bayer and Anja Achztiger
Peter M Gollwitzer
Gordon B Moskowitz
Social Cognition, Vol. 27, No. 2, 2009, pp. 183–201
www.psych.nyu.edu...

Non-Lexical Conversational Sounds in American English
Nigel Ward
Computer Science, University of Texas El Paso TX
www.cs.utep.edu...

Margret Magnus Magic Letter Page
www.trismegistos.com...

Purple Numbers and Sharp Cheese
V.S. Ramachandran
www.bbc.co.uk...

Sapir Whorf Hypothesis
www.princeton.edu...


Representation of Lexical Form
Conor T. Mclennan, Paul A. Luce and Jan Charles-Luce
University at Buffalo, The State University of New York
www.ling.ohio-state.edu...


I have read and re-read almost all of these (all but one but that is like 431 pages long) since this thread has started, I am curious as to what they are really doing. Once you spend a good 3-4 days reading referencing and cross referencing this information you can make a better assessment of what it is I just presented to you in my last statement. I would post my notes but I find it pointless as most people can't get over this fantasy land. I can almost promise you will begin to see what these people are really talking about and doing, it is a mockery to them and their research with this vampyr non-sense, it really is. I have no need or reason to fully elaborate and explain the intrinsic and often times hard to follow concepts to those that chose not to look for themselves as that would be insulting to their intelligence. I am not trying to be rude but it is apparent other members agree I present "bated" and unreasonable arguments, so I will just contribute the relevent research I have been doing almost non stop around the clock.

B-man

reply to post by galadofwarthethird

Sorry but music and singing is just noise humans tend to make with there facial flaps, its just something that lives and lasts for but moments, it has its moments but those are soon gone usually in a few minutes. I suppose that is were spacial sequencing and directions would come in but to communicate without words or something like that medium. I do not think its very you know circumspect, it can be interpreted as anything literally. And look at that links vids, you have sometimes two or more opposing things being translated, the visuals say one thing the audio another, its you know if there is a message you would have to be clued in first to it or else you would just be guessing. I mean don't get me wrong even with words or captions you are still guessing but at least the plot is coagulant. Though that vid with the antelope running into a tree while the lions sit and watch is hilarious, even the sounds are hilarious. I suppose that would be what you call fast food on delivery for the lions.

So now you've got three things in place - hand to mouth, mouth in brocas area to visual appearance in the fusiform and auditory cortex, and auditory to visual, the booba/kiki effect. Each of these is a small effect but acting together there's a synergistic boot-strapping effect going on and an avalanche effect, culminating in the emergence of language. Finally you say well what about the hierarchical structure of syntax? How do you explain that? Well I think like when you say he knows that I know that he knows that I know that I had an affair with his wife. How do you do this hierarchic embedding in language? Well partly I think that comes from semantics, from the region of the TPO where I said you'd engage in abstraction and I already explained how abstraction might have evolved, so partly abstraction feeds into syntactic structure, but partly from tool use. Early hominids were very good at tool use and especially what I call the sub-assembly technique in tool use where you take a piece of flint, make it into a head - step one. Then you haft it onto a handle - step two, and then the whole thing becomes one entity which is then used to hit you the subject, you hit the object. You do something to the object and this bears a certain operational analogy with the embedding of noun clauses. So what I'm arguing is what evolved for tool use in the hand area is now exapted and assimilated in the brocas area to be used in syntactic hierarchic embedding. So now look, each of these has a small bias but acting in conjunction they culminate in language. It's very different from Steve Pinker's idea which is that language is a specific adaptation which evolved step by step for the sole purpose of communication. What I'm arguing here is no, it's the fortuitous synergistic combination of a number of mechanisms which evolved for other purposes initially and then became assimilated into the mechanism that we call language. This often happens in evolution but it's a style of thinking that has yet to permeate neurology and psychology and it's very odd that neurologists don't usually think of evolution given that nothing in biology makes any sense except in the light of evolution as Dobzhansky once said

 

This should help explain all that noise that humans do with their facial flaps but it is deeper then this

edit on 14-7-2013 by Brotherman because: (no reason given)

So i have a very interesting question in regards to all this language study with regards to sound and sight,if one wanted to transcend barriers of such a limited form of communication to better convey themselves to other sentient beings would they not want to develop Telepathy as a more true method to express there feeling and emotions while literally eliminating or minimizing the chance of having a miss-communication?

Also i do believe this would greatly reduce security issues in certain situations,and in some greatly increase it!

One other thing of note in regards to Telepathy,Telepathy would eliminate technology and constraints of time and distance in regards to communication,but it is not "monetarily lucrative"to advance the general population this way.

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by kosmicjack

 

Yes, it is.
According to my correspondence with the admin anyways.

These are legit languages.
Not code.

You or I could LEARN these languages with a bit of diligence.
However, at the speed at which they can apparently churn them out (17 new languages so far in four years) with this software, one could probably stay ahead of the game, so to speak.


Imagine being a monolinguist in a room full of multilinguists.

That is what this is.

I do not consider myself a polyglot with English and Italian, some French and Spanish because I rarely use them anymore except perhaps the French. I took two years of Spanish in High School and learned some French a couple years ago, Italian naturally because of parent. Now I recently learned the French with a program so I don't see it being that difficult, but possibly only time consuming. But not so much if you are a linguistics major or have a MS in linguistics or a working theoretical linguist.

That said I am sort of failing at finding this any more amazing then say Tolkien inventing Elvish or Marc Okrand with Klingon. Tolkien himself did a lot of cryptography and invented several other languages and subbranches within Elvish itself, all without a computer.

Now I think what they are doing is interesting, but if Google can translate 71 different languages (so far), who's to say the same linguists and programers couldn't also write the same sort of code for invented languages? It is doubtful these are spoken languages only written so actually knowing the nuances of a language, its structure and use can be a complex process but not if you were the one inventing it.

reply to post by abeverage


I believe what you have said here is actually the premise of their anti language

Let's see if I can throw this back into the land of the Weird.

The 3rd Principle of the Georgia Guidestones...

3. Unite humanity with a living new language.

If like famed linguist Michael Halliday suggests that society is made from language not just a part of it, I am kinda surprised nobody mentioned it...

Ok this topic made me register here. So i did a little searching for this ayndryl person. Here is a link of her posting in a forum about this experiment a few years ago. Anyone catch this???


lingvoforum.net...

Heres another forum where this person posted. Just want to throw these clues out there and get to the bottom of this. I read this person saying something to the tune of learning two languages without hearing someone speak a single word of it. Pretty brilliant individual.

uztranslations.net.ru...

reply to post by sadybull


No I didnt catch this one and it is a very interesting read thank you for presenting this and welcome to ATS, this is very interesting again!!
(This was posted before but that was from the google translate site still great catch)

Russian translation for your source in search title

Lingvoforum "Bottom section: For language learners, helping students" Translations and help languages

Hmm... but the idea was not to generate a cryptic language of some sort. The idea was this: - to analyze syntactic and morphological drift for a given set of languages, and to explore whether such a drift produces a semantic drift correlate. In order to do so, we designed a software, called Nodespaces, that acts as a genetic algorithm that takes as input a given language and then, by stimulated annealing, subjects the language to a set of stochastic rules. If we consider the language as a complex adaptive system, by changing the boundary conditions the language is forced to adapt itself, thus changing its syntactic structure and its morphological internal structure. Obviously, a boundary condition was this: change as you wish, but the change must yield a syntactically and phonetically coherent language. The result shows that language is also a dissipative structure, one that can finally derive in a total colapse of communication, unless you impose some restrictive superstructure upon it. We found it was then better to introduce the self-organizing constraints into the system. And the experiment shows that in order for you to obtain such a language, the system must, of necessity, include the speaker. Though it seems obvious that language and speaker are inseparable, sometimes linguists forget this, in particular when they study ancient languages. We wanted to find an answer to this question: can we think of the Russian language regardeless of the Russian speaker? That is: can anyone speak Russian without feeling Russian? So far, the answer is "No". Sure you can be a Lakota. Sure you can learn Russian. Sure you can get a total mastering of the Russian language. But you will never "feel" like a Russian. So the question arises: what do we mean by being Russian or Lakota? And if there was just one protolanguage, what made a given speaker to start feeling like a Russian? The landscape? The environment? A genetic mutation? A specific neurological arrangement? Happy new year to you all! Ayndryl Forgotten Languages "Translation shall cease" project.

Page 2Link from poster above me

Guess this is the proof of aliens, vampires, and secret society agenda behind the site it is truly compelling. If anything I move to ask the proof behind making the conclusion that this is somehow related to vampire and vampiric cults if anything this character assassination and defimation based out of ignorance the title of this and the attention it got for this group of researchers I cannot verify a single thing in the OPs opening it is all emotional based speculation.

reply to post by sadybull


Thanks for that, i enjoyed the religious discussion insights and Ayndryls viewpoints.

I thought love had nothing to do with the own's personal profit and loss balance sheet. You should love, even if they don't love you. Humans are not animals working under the reward/punishment scheme. Does not your god know that? Ask Lilith, the first woman.

She quitted from paradise. Never returned. Never loved Adam, as she found him dumb and pathetic.

By the way, the source of knowledge was a tree in the garden of Eden, and your god explicitely prohibited and banned Adam and Eve to ever get close to it. It seems your god wanted them to be ignorants.

This was the highlight for me lol

"Put your hands over her head..."

If the guy tries to touch me, sure his head will start spinning, his eyes will burst out, and he will fall to the floor speaking in tongues... Go tell him.

reply to post by Brotherman



At some point you will also need to factor in what they appear to have no interest in as regards the overall content of the website, for example Satanism, America, Politics, Marxism, Feminism etc etc


The suggestion that this was a sort of Arts related language of Sound experimentation group doesn't find overall supporting evidence within the site, as i work in the area of Community and Progressive Arts i would have certain expectations regarding the political and social viewpoints i'd expect to see reflected in the overall content of the site, it simply isn't there.

Which isn't to say individuals connected to the site don't have such interests in their everyday life, just that it is not the general concern of the project.

reply to post by Kantzveldt


Except you don't have a means to read any shred of any thing from their works on their site what makes you believe that these people are a spooky mystical group? Why does a scientist have to follow any 'ism? In there defense this is defamatory at the least I could probably go farther then that if I wanted to be more articulate.

The background to their research is that of the vampiric cult, so seemingly a group of extremely gifted linguists that always provide extensive academic bibliographic referances, yet are also given to producing disturbing videos on vampiric theme

The background of their research is in language I see no evidence of a vampiric cult I can provide overwhelming evidence it is based in language. If you follow the bibliographies you will find many texts regarding a multitude of scientific trades, I have yet to find one linking a vampire or secret society course, If you want links to BOOKS and other published peer reviewed work this is an impressive collection of research, I have personally borrowed 3 books from the penn state harrisburg campus library regarding topics covered in their site.
Since when does a site that also displays individual members art make them vampires, and you may interpret it as vampiric I find it a tribute to life opinions may vary here. If you apply this logic to ATS what would your conclusion be? We even have a member art forum here that normal people can read in English cause this site is for profit and have alot more then 14 members. Their site is not for profit they obfuscate it from goverment, spam, and prying eyes by using a language base that is not commonly known.

Something is seriously weird around those parts. As an example of this intrigue, they have an article that suggests that Voynich is an adaption of a cryptic language known as Franciscan Alashi;

I see no reference to such a claim regarding Voynich and the rest is your opinion in regards to your threshold of weird.

English quotations are sometimes found on the site but not often, the language they most commonly write in they refer to as Affel, supposedly a Romanian Vampiric dialect, they have many articles concerned with Affel and Romaniel

I beg to differ Affel is referenced in their labels along with I stopped counting at 34 because there is so many texts they use I am not an ancient language specialist to make comparitive results in all of these but I can say I have not seen one instance where they refer to a singular communication in Affel out side of the 2 references they mark in the label category where they also like every other one leave the bibliography in English. You claim it is a "supposedly Romanian Vampiric dialect" I do not see this connection. I do see that they are connecting early language and tracing its changes in morphology, lexical, and historical changes.

In the Loopscapes section of their website they write their own poetry and discuss the vampiric tradition, mainly in Affel, which i can sort of get the gist of and basically follow some of their invocations. Their interest in language is essentialy that of the Demoniac, speaking and writing in unknown tongues, though interaction with archaic spirits, but this is studied in conjunction with the very latest theories on language and semiotics, and the underlying patterns of a Universal language, this group is certainly fully informed, and seemingly well ahead in the game...

This is wild speculation these languages are not unknown they are just not used in this form anymore, if you get the gist of it can you interpret some of it for me? How do you know that there interest in language is ESSENTIALY demonic and that interact with archaic spirits? I don't think you know this and you are feeding a belief with a fill in the blank answer this is all wildly sensational and tragic. Where is your logic I would say you found something you don't understand and claim heresy, witchcraft, and vampires I know other groups that have used this logic throughout history as well, those people were not good people.

Any help and insight on understanding this group will be appreciated, whether debunking or otherwise, as they disturb me. I did wonder if they're connected to

I have given insight, and otherwise debunked vampires for favor of mortal scientists, a singular member of their groups art may be a little disturbing for you but I don't think this person is coming to suck your blood. Also you talk about Chemo-Linguistics I have not found a solidarity source for this claim either but if you look into phonosemantics that covers lots of their "mystical" topics along with tons of info I have already posted on here others refuse to either read, or don't care about. I think you owe them an apology for keeping the witch hunt alive.

reply to post by Kantzveldt

At some point you will also need to factor in what they appear to have no interest in as regards the overall content of the website, for example Satanism, America, Politics, Marxism, Feminism etc etc The suggestion that this was a sort of Arts related language of Sound experimentation group doesn't find overall supporting evidence within the site, as i work in the area of Community and Progressive Arts i would have certain expectations regarding the political and social viewpoints i'd expect to see reflected in the overall content of the site, it simply isn't there. Which isn't to say individuals connected to the site don't have such interests in their everyday life, just that it is not the general concern of the project

This first:

At some point you will also need to factor in what they appear to have no interest in as regards the overall content of the website, for example Satanism, America, Politics, Marxism, Feminism etc etc

I am not concerned with their non interests sure all of these topics are covered in thousands of years of literary work and contributions because they look at it objectively makes them good scientists, you say over all content I would like you to point out one out of thousands of bits of information to support Satanism, America, Politics, Marxism, Feminism or their non support of, I maintain this site remains objective in all categories I don't want to come back and read malarkey of a single member on a different forum talking about their views in a LANGUAGE forum as support for this wild claim

The suggestion that this was a sort of Arts related language of Sound experimentation group doesn't find overall supporting evidence within the site

Yes it does lol have you read anything that I have been linking in your thread it is all about sound, language, cognition, communication, technology if you want I will recap some of the reading material I have already been through on their site, but I will be cheeky with sharing notes that is not my responsibility to learn for you or anyone else. The suggestion this was a sort of Arts related sound experimentation group is down playing the scope of what they are doing this isn't even ball park relatively to the accomplishments they have already made with their work, if you want to debunk that claim decipher their website fully and replicate their nodespaces software. I will allude to one thing it is possible to decipher some of their work I found a way how to its actually very simple and kind of common sense when you figure it out, doesnt work for all though but I will maintain that mystery for others to discover as well.

Community and Progressive arts? Does this entail linguistics does this profession or degree or title follow language and communication? your expectations socially and politically do not make the world go round and round what makes this a decisive factor in calling people vampires when you can't read write or speak 1/10th of the languages or information they share with each other what gives you the right to give these people such a negative outpour of attention for no reason, perhaps this is why they encode their information to stay away from ats'rs. I am not attacking you as you made this credential some kind of substantiating point I do not see how your expectations can lead you to call someone or peoples you have never met a vampiric cult.