I'm not religious, but I found this pretty interesting

Originally posted by scojak

While there is no actual proof shown in this video, all this information was apparently discovered and proven by Dr. Ivan Panin about 100 years ago.

The trouble with Panin's theory is that he is basing it on the earliest Greek written Bible..........which in itself is problematic when you try to transfer the same theory to ancient Aramaic, and since Jesus likely spoke Aramaic rather than Greek it kinda makes the "7 code" theory a non starter..........

Unless Panin is trying to suggest that the 4th century Greeks were "divinely" inspired when writing their version of the Bible.
Furthermore it has been pointed out that you would need to have a good scholarly knowledge of ancient Greek in order to confirm Panin's findings regarding the "7" code.
Even if some of Panin's 7 code is true..........it's quite likely that many things in the Greek Bible do not conform to Painin's 7 code.
Some important things in the Bible don't conform to the 7 code either.
613 commandments........ not divisible by 7
10 Plagues of Egypt.......not divisible by 7
Moses 40 years in desert.........not divisible by 7
12 disciples ......., not divisible by 7

I could go on.........but if 7 were such an important number to "God"........then funny how so many important events don't conform to the 7 code theory.

In conclusion Panin was reading too much into his findings, and spent way too much time on it!

The new testament was written/edited by numerous people to push the roman agenda and stop the growing judaism.
They just had no idea of how popular it would be to be able to sin limitless and then say "I believe" and everything was forgotten.

Most other religions at the time were kind of harsh in comparison at that time.

Some are making an issue out of the fact we don't have the original texts.

For something like what Missler is referencing (the gematria, isopsephy, etc.), it's not required since we're isolating words and phrases.

I would imagine the original texts in their original form would be more important for something like the Bible Codes.

As for the argument about other languages not being applicable, well probably not. Not all languages have numerical significance. For instance, English does not while Greek does.

So I do think it's pretty fascinating. THIS is the original book I read on the subject around 10 years ago and it was food for thought at the very least.

Originally posted by AshleyD
Some are making an issue out of the fact we don't have the original texts.

The problem is though that Panin is saying all these things are a multiple of seven...........but without independent verification by other scholars in ancient Greek (Peer review if you will).......... then the validity and accuracy of the claims has to remain questionable.

Panin even wrote his own version of the Ancient Greek New Testament text...........which itself differs in numbers of words to Strong's version.......... Panin's contains 5,304 and Strong's contains 5,523 and we really have no idea which version merits the better accuracy.
Interestingly Panin's 5,304 words is not a multiple of 7........whilst Strongs 5,523 is!

reply to post by AshleyD


Thanks AshleyD! You've certainly given me a lot to digest. And thanks for the positive comments as well. I always appreciate those with the desire to help.

Originally posted by Logical one

The problem is though that Panin is saying all these things are a multiple of seven...........but without independent verification by other scholars in ancient Greek (Peer review if you will).......... then the validity and accuracy of the claims has to remain questionable.

I agree, it would be cool to know how accurate his findings were, but with no knowledge of the Greek language, I'm pretty helpless in conducting anything of the sort.

Originally posted by scojak


I agree, it would be cool to know how accurate his findings were, but with no knowledge of the Greek language, I'm pretty helpless in conducting anything of the sort.

This guy Peter Dunn claims that he has a good understanding of Biblical languages and put some of Panin's claims to the test:

petrostelos.files.wordpress.com...

If you just read the conclusion then Peter Dunn suggests Panin's 7 code doesn't work and he is "skeptical and unconvinced" after applying Panin's methodology.

reply to post by Tranceopticalinclined


Yeah, I hear you. I experienced the same kind of thing and left my faith in disgust. It's too bad those stupid church people taught us all those lies about Jesus and God. For example, Jesus never said he was God and never said he wanted to be worshipped. And that's only the tip of the iceberg. However, despite that unfortunate period of my life, I have to admit it has been fun rediscovering and redefining my "religion" if you could really call it that, and its rather liberating to realize we can be our own spiritual authority and do not need any other human being to be the be all end all of any questions we may have. We can decide what sounds right to us. No animals in heaven? No, screw that, there are animals in heaven. It wouldn't be heaven otherwise


There are still a lot of things I don't understand but most of that has to do with the past, and what really matters is the decisions you make in your life right now and having a good heart and helping others and being as good as you can, and keep your eyes open for situations the require your help, and also for situations that you should stay away from. We are not all powerful and some situations are beyond our ability. Don't be afraid, but at the same time, don't be stupid.

I don't really think it matters if someone believes in the Bible or whatever... I think if you are a good, kind person, who tries to practice virtues like patience and honesty, I think that's what matters... And having a simple life not cluttered with possesssions and distractions. You need to give yourself time to think/pray/meditate or whatever to consider your path and know oneself. And time to do gods work. The widow next door needs to paint her house in order to pass an inspection for a new mortgage and she is gonna lose her house if she can make the place look nice, but you are putting in over 40 hours a week for that boss of yours and you like to have fun drinking, bowling, playing video games and sleeping in on your days off. You didn't have time to make a huge difference in someone's life because you were too busy with your precious life which has its problems like anyone else but by no means are you in danger of losing your home...

And its too bad because that lady had to move away and she was a registered nurse who couldve saved your girlfriends life when she had gotten hit by a drunk driver in front of your house one year later while unloading groceries from the back of the SUV that your overtime hours helped pay for... Which makes it even more tragic because if you'd turned down those extra hours your boss offered you so you could help Mrs Whitman paint her house then you never could've afforded the SUV and you wouldve still had the Toyota Corolla when that drunk came speeding down Mulberry Lane at 6:44 pm, and your soon to be fiance would've been well into the driveway, just out of reach of the Chevy Malibu as it swerved off the road momentarily. You were going to propose to her that night.

So in that scenario, I supposed her nursing skills would not have been needed at all. But after the near miss, you both would have been comforted to know that, if there WAS any injuries, there would have been a registered- no, you know what? I changed my mind. She's an emergency room surgeon...

So... anyway... yep. That's how God works.

reply to post by 3n19m470

Yeah, I hear you. I experienced the same kind of thing and left my faith in disgust. It's too bad those stupid church people taught us all those lies about Jesus and God. For example, Jesus never said he was God and never said he wanted to be worshipped.

Someone hasn't read their scripture. Jesus asked for glory so that the father might be recognized. He also said that he was in the Father, and the Father in him, and that they were one. It doesn't get more blatant than that, given the prose they were fond of speaking in.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I do believe that the intent of Jesus was to relate that He and the Father he prayed to was of the same spirit of holiness and will . The Lord come down to earth was not the Father .Nor was the Holy Spirit .

reply to post by SimonPeter

I do believe that the intent of Jesus was to relate that He and the Father he prayed to was of the same spirit of holiness and will . The Lord come down to earth was not the Father .Nor was the Holy Spirit .

Sure, you believe that to be the message the scripture was written to send. But can you prove it? See, I'm all about legitimate reasons to believe in these things, not just because I want to or because it makes me feel good or makes sense to me. The basis for truth must lie outside of my existence, where it may be observed by but not influenced by or dependent upon my own understanding.

Unfortunately, people here all too often give the impression that their favorite part of the "truth" in their religion is the fact that said "truth" relies upon their understanding to hold any value at all. And that would be okay...if the truth were at all practical. But subjugation, dependence and sycophancy are not practical outside the presence of a tyrant.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


With age and the wisdom that comes with it you will be able to understand .

Hmm Chuck Missler aye... exceptional NWO timing hasn't he lol

Recently he did Illuminati card game: Flat Earthers ... coming out he believes the earth is flat..

Now he's started preaching the 'Electric Universe' deception directly from lucistrust.org...



Youtube.