Our Governmet's Ultimate Disrespect For Those Who Gave The Ultimate Sacrifice

I have questions that it is impossible for us to know complete answers for but I would bet everything I own that we know enough to make an informed assumption:

Start with this terribly insufficient list of sacrifice so I can make a point afterward:

• The name son the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Wall (52,286 and counting as of June, 2013)
• Operation Enduring Freedom, Afghanistan, 2300 plus
• War in Iraq, up to $1.9 TRILLION dollars in financial expenses with estimates up to $6 trillion in economic losses in the US, probably in excess of 100,000 innocents killed on there homeland, more than 4,400 American service men and women antiwar.com... en.wikipedia.org...
• 418,000 US citizens and soldiers dead in WWII en.wikipedia.org...

• 117,000 US citizens and soldiers in WWI en.wikipedia.org...

And the following from en.wikipedia.org...


Rank War Years Deaths Deaths per Day US Population in First Year of War Deaths per Population
1 American Civil War
1861–1865 625,000 599 31,443,000 1.988% (1860)
2 World War II
1941–1945 405,399 416 133,402,000 0.307% (1940)
3 World War I
1917–1918 116,516 279 103,268,000 0.110% (1920)
4 Vietnam War
1961–1975 58,209 11 179,323,175 (1960) 0.030% (1970)
5 Korean War
1950–1953 36,516 45 151,325,000 0.020% (1950)
6 American Revolutionary War
1775–1783 25,000 11 2,500,000 0.899% (1780)
7 War of 1812
1812–1815 15,000 15 8,000,000 0.207% (1810)
8 Mexican–American War
1846–1848 13,283 29 21,406,000 0.057% (1850)
9 War on Terror
2001–present 6,717 1.57 294,043,000 0.002% (2010)
10 Philippine–American War
1899–1902 4,196 1 72,129,000 0.006% (1900)
"Deaths per day" is the total number of US military killed, divided by the number of days between the dates of the commencement and end of hostilities. "Deaths per population" is the total number of US military deaths, divided by the US population of the year indicated.
Total American Deaths by War

American Civil War   625,000
World War II   405,399
World War I   116,516
Vietnam   58,151
Korean War   36,516
American Revolutionary War   25,000
War of 1812   15,000
Mexican American War   13,283
War on terror*present   6,717
Philippine–American War  

• Even the often reviled CIA Memorial Wall which contains more than 100 names itself
• The Founding Fathers who each put their lives , the lives of their families, their wealth , and all possessions into the mix
• And we all realize there are a most likely quite large of unknown acts of heroism resulting in the ultimate sacrifice on behalf of the citizens and safety of the US we will never be told of


Now the point as simple as I can make it: how many of these hundreds of thousands of heroes would want to see what their sacrifice has accomplished? Anything? What they believed they were fighting for? I believe that the manner our government operates in today’s self-serving, selfish, secretive, and most likely illegal and full of the very war crimes we portend to be opposing is far more than an insult or a simple slap in the face to all those who have given so much for such a result. In fact, the adage of someone rolling over in their graves (those fortunate to have been given proper burials) should be re-imagined to such an extent that our politicians and powers behind the scenes may as well exhume each of our heroes from their resting place, slap them in the face, then discard them as carelessly as they already treat their memories. This administration directly and indirectly disrespect all that has come before them to such an extent that they not only do not deserve our respect, but by their actions require anyone of good conscience to fight for our rights, the memories of those mentioned above, the safety of the rest of the world from American interference, oppression, and hypocritically sponsored terrorism which at any moment could trigger unimaginable with today’s technology.

We as Americans must get to the polls at every opportunity to make appropriate change, make every effort possible to lobby forcefully enough to make necessary changes. We must peacefully but without surrender make the voice of reason heard by the decision makers and help them understand we as a nation can truly be pushed far enough to react en mass strongly enough to begin a positive change with or without our government’s approval (this must be peaceful to avoid hypocrisy of our own, but there is strength in numbers). If all able bodied men and women who are well aware of the horrendous path we are following do not gather to repair the broken system and do it fast, then I suggest we should consider ourselves as guilty as those who we hold in such low esteem.

It is very late, so I hope I have made sense. Please feel free to edit, add, or correct as you see fit, but I am convinced we are very near the point of no return if we don’t act immediately.

My best wishes to all and thank you for reading.

reply to post by samstone11

Our Governmet's Ultimate Disrespect For Those Who Gave The Ultimate Sacrifice

You don't say....

I'm shocked.

And here I thought the president cares for me

I haven't been giving out the stars and flags too often, but this one gets both. With everything our corrupt government has done, this one should be at the top of the list, thanks.

I agree with using peaceful means to attempt change. However, at some point we may be forced to take more radical action, should our government become even more oppressive. I am a soldier, I love my country, and I cant bear to see where its going.

I am a disabled veteran, and I feel the ultimate disrespect to me was being taken advantage of while I was too young and ignorant to know better.

Taking advantage of the young to fight wars for you like these weasels in Washington do is the thing that needs to stop.

Memorials and other posturing by those who won't fight their own battles is too little too late.

War is a crime against humanity.

Follow the Money, there will be found the culprits at the end of the money trail.

Eventually it will be realized that we provide the labor and resources to wage war.

So ultimately, who is responsible?.

It is very late in the game, TPTB realize that too, the economy is being manipulated to remove the majority's means to resist being fed into another war.

A lot of people on this site have said, in an offhand way, that the draft should be implemented to deal with all of those who cannot pull their own weight out here on the street....

The plan is working perfectly.

Baa baa baaaaaaaa.....

Well I think the word "hero" is over used, the poster believes everyone who has worn a uniform is a hero well, I spent some time in the Army during the Vietnam War and most were zeros, especially the lifers who made the military their career.

I contend there are no hero's in any war after Vietnam, because no Citizen was required to expose themselves or assume the risk that goes with being drafted or inducted into the Army under the penalty of Criminal Prosecution.

In the Scheme of things, and in all honesty few soldiers are hero's, most are involved in mundane activities that support those fighting and dying. So that eliminates about 85% of all your so called hero's.

Since the wars fought since the Vietnam War were by a volunteer's who chose to risk their lives in Administrative War's crated by Executive Orders, they were nothing more than police actions where personal vendetta's were carried out by those Volunteers who were fighting for a President and not under a declaration of war.

That said, I find it hard to swallow that everyone in Uniform is fighting for my rights, to protect this country, or our way of life. That is not true, that is pure propaganda.

Those who have died since the Vietnam made the decision to assume the risk of any injuries suffered or loss of life. To many it was just an adventure and for 4000 in the Middle East it was their final adventure. Iraq, Afghanistan, et.al. were never a threat to anyone (except the wall street gang in New York and those who own our government).

I believe there are true Hero's in War and most of those die and few are alive to receive a congressional medal of honor. But the basic requirement for hero status, is to risk your life for that of another, absent that hero status is hard to obtain.

My first sergeant, told my company that "stupid gets you killed", we lost almost 60,000 in Vietnam in an undeclared war, where you had three choices to avoid going into the Army; hide out with a college deferment, get married, or go to Canada. Under that law anyone of age was either going to get drafted or was going to go ahead and volunteer for three years. Absent prosecution and coercion from the government fewer may have died.

In WW1 it was Sargent York, in WWII it was Audie Murphy, in Korea there were real hero's awarded the Medal of Honor who sacrificed themselves to save others, or committed an act that allowed others to survive; in Vietnam most of the Medal of Honors went to the Green Berets who usually died to the last man but all of these acts of heroism were during a time when citizens were "called to duty" by their government.

Since Vietnam, we have a volunteer army, much like a mercenary army that fights in wars orchestrated by Presidents under the guise of "a threat to the United States,"

Tell me how did Iraq, or Afghanistan, or any of the other small police actions threaten the security of the United States citizens. I argue no one threatens the United States except people like Tom Ridge, Karl Rove, Dick Chaney, Hillary Clinton, Obama, Bill Clinton and George Bush. These are the real threats, they are the ones who send "volunteers" into action to die for them.

That is the way I see it, the use of the word "hero" should be used sparingly and only uttered when great acts of self sacrifice occur that impacts the lives of others.

The next think is that someone is going to say the 19 firefighters "hotshots" were heros, in reality they were stupid, when fire threatens a house or property, insurance covers the loss, so each one of them elected to put their lives in danger voluntarily, they were not "required" to be where they were. Life is tough, but if you are stupid it gets a lot tougher. So in the future, utter the word hero only if the event was beyond the call of duty, and not because someone wears a uniform. John

reply to post by samstone11


Why don't you name this disrespect?

Or are you just here to spout hollow words with the intent to inflame?

reply to post by Wertdagf

I'm sincerely afraid I don't understand your question. What I was trying to say is that I personally abhor the fact that people in an office somewhere solidly and safely removed from the actual battlefield are sending people willing to give their all for what far too often turns out to be some form of hidden agenda. The post above yours mentioned that to be a hero should include more of a inability to avoid being in the wrong place at the wrong time (to paraphrase), and to a very large degree he is correct.

Still, once anyone outs on the uniform of the US military, as far as they are concerned they have become a hero to me and my family. My 13 year old son knows to thank policemen, firemen, soldiers any time he sees them in such a uniform because whatever the reason they wear it, they can be called upon to make a decision with no time whatsoever that will either cost them their life or another life(s) can be in danger. The above poster is also correct that many of these people allow themselves to be in the position of danger for what amounts to be quite self-serving from beginning to end, but if they protect my son, my daughter, wife and family I really don;t care why they are there.

The point is that the manner in which this government disregards, disrespects, ignores, and flagrantly hide personal agendas from those willing to die for a greater cause is cowardly, inhumane, and as repulsive as any descriptor I could possibly name. The people who have died believing one thing (or maybe even knowing they are being lied to), regardless of personal motivation for being there deserve a measure of respect equal to the measure of sacrifice. This includes the wounded as well. I have spent more than enough time in VA hospitals to know beyond doubt that this respect I am referring to is so often ignored by more than just the government and we could all probably step back and reassess our level of appreciation for what they endure. I HIGHLY, HIGHLY, HIGHLY recommend anyone who has never been inside a VA clinic to take an afternoon just to sit in the lobby and watch these servicemen and women very closely as they come and go.

I want to believe anyone of good conscience would leave there will a full understanding of the respect these people have earned (again sometimes even selfishly, but still deserving of my thanks).

So the point I was trying to convey is that our government flagrantly flaunts the secrecy, abuse of what the US claims to stand for, and its dishonesty with impunity at these who have given all they have given. This in itself should somehow be known for what I personally believe it is. A crime. A slap in the face. Utmost disregard and disrespect. Call it whatever you like, but how many families are left with only memories while this government whittles away moment by moment at any honorable reason their loved ones are no longer alive or healthy?

I hope you understand my concern and sincerity. Best regards, and thanks to all who have had a part in keeping those I love, and even those I will never know, safe.

reply to post by samstone11


people have tried to be active and to try to bring about change.. however they are always met by liars who say what will get them elected..

then they are voted out of office and the cycle repeats.

Great thread! I made one a while back during all the gun control hoopla that is fairly similar. I tried to make the same point you did here, but you obviously elaborated much more than I did. Great job putting this insanity in perspective.



www.abovetopsecret.com...

Thanks to all who have taken time to contribute. I received a note from close friends who make the point I am struggling with very well from a personal perspective. I have been given permission to share their words but understandably they requested anonymity. PLEASE take a moment to read:

If you ask any combat veteran (at least those of the Vietnam era), he will tell you he is no hero. They see themselves as having done a job that no one else (including themselves) wanted to do. [My husband] says that most all of the soldiers were kept in the dark as to what was actually going on. It was all due to drug trade, sponsored by the CIA. Drugs (heroin) were brought back to the states in body bags, along with dead soldiers. I agree with the poster who said that the title of hero is thrown around too loosely, but that is about as far as I will acquiesce to his tirade. Old men send young men to war, not for philanthropic reasons but for the old men's gain (greed). And just because a young man (or woman) volunteers for active duty verses draft, that does not lessen their status as possible heroes, if the situation they find themselves in, warrant that status. A hero by definition is someone who risks their own life/safety, to protect the lives/safety of others, whether they are known or unknown to them. I've talked to many combat veterans and they all knew the risks beforehand. Were they scared? You’re darn right they were but they did what they had to do. Be they WW1 and 2 vets, Korean, Vietnam or Iraqi war vets, they deserve respect. And are due respect from those who for whatever reason, have never served, have served but have never seen combat, or have seen combat and are just [horse’s rear ends]. Governments kill.

In responding to my request for permission to post her and her husband’s thoughts, they added:

Not only that, but when they (military/soldiers) come back in pieces, or traumatized (PTSD), they have to jump through hoops, fill out 600 different forms and wait possibly years before they are evaluated, to either receive VA medical benefits, or get turned down. [There are] vets who are 100% disabled, unable to work, yet they are still fighting to receive their benefits. It is shameful!

I sincerely marvel over how a government operating as this one does could possibly expect the populace (read “involuntarily indentured or subservient citizenry) to follow blindly without end? Still, I cannot and will not suggest violence or some knee jerk reaction as the solution when seeking positive change. Never lower yourself to their level.

One more question if anyone would care to address it, please. How in the world can any system as dysfunctional as ours realistically hold such a hypocritical viewpoint regarding law enforcement when it refuses to obey many of the most fundamentally detrimental laws and regulations itself? Yet, this “system” so often stubbornly claims to adhere to legal precedence as a pillar of justice, so by inference doesn’t their disregard for law allow that other criminals should not or could not be prosecuted based on the standard of determining abiding by some law is just too much effort or the person in question decides it’s not in his or her best interest?

The example has been set. I can only hope and pray that those of us who possess a more developed sense of morality will be able to one day see our government working for us instead of against us. There is an important Bible verse I choose to follow in living what I hope to be the correct model for my children: "....As for me and my house we will choose to serve the Lord (Joshua 24:15)". In addition, as a family we will honor those who have earned our respect and I accept the responsibility to lead my loved ones within the bounds of right vs. wrong. Hopefully enough others will do the same to affect real change for the better and I will be granted a lifetime long enough to see it happen. If not, please stand up and be counted for our children's sake.

reply to post by Faust100f


Starred! That's one of the most lucid pieces I have seen on here for a long time!
I fully agree, the whole "Hero" thing is just another propaganda piece, when in reality, those in uniform are indeed nothing more than corporate backed mercenaries, fighting for the bankers and elites, but hasn't it always been that way?
It galls me whenever I see everyone getting all gooey and spouting off about heroes. As you say, most have never even seen any combat or done anything remotely risky at all, in their entire lives, except put on a uniform. But now it seems the tactic has changed and we must all bow down and "honour" those in uniform for their "service"! Excuse me? What service? Service to whom? Certainly NOT to the country and it's people who, lets face it, get stuck with the tab to pay for each and every military engagement and deployment, while the bankers fund both sides and the corporations and wall street guys are the ones REALLY making a killing.

Bottom line is that those elites in power and the bankers do not give a crap about the maimed and dead. That's just the price of doing business as far as they are concerned and how the end result is achieved, and how many of their own countrymen/women and fellow citizens are killed and maimed, is irrelevent. They'll use the maimed as poster boys to recruit more cannon fodder and look solemn each year at the cenotaph and war memorials up and down the country, and then it's back to business again with a chuckle as they peruse their stock portfolios and see how well they are doing.

At least the leaders of old had the balls to go and fight their enemies too! Something the sharp suited cowards today would soil themselves at if made to put on uniform, pick up a rifle and join the rest.

Im a soldier.

I know the government doesn't care about me. But how is that different from anyone else? My occupation doesn't make me more deserving or less deserving of a government that respects my rights.

Being a citizen and a human I expect the government to respect those rights. But I don't trust them to. That's why it's important to remain vigilant and to be active in controlling the government.

Don't forget to add how the U.S. Government tries it's hardest to NOT pay out the GI BILL money it used to LURE people to enlist in the 1st place. Or how they will deny you proper medical care if you don't get discharged via a medical discharge ( if it isn't present at time of discharge it wasn't something that the military was involved with ) is what they say.

Honestly I used to be proud about the military, now I am only proud about the military members, the military in general as a overall logistical governing body is a farce, a sham, a shell of what it could even be considered from what I was told from the tech and master sergeants.

Honestly I think it boils down to people just having horrible parents, since this is about taking care of your word and someone who threw away their freedoms for a few years. You haven't known what being an owned object is until you've been in the military.

Don't get me started on the hiring of Vets... that's another horrid issue.