What if Jesus is the DECEPTION?

Originally posted by Devino
reply to post by borntowatch

 

Why did the Jews kill Jesus then.

You don't know this story?
Jesus was killed because of his heretical ideas. This was all part of the prophecy and he knew it. He dared to stand up against the church and show that one does not need the approval of the clergy to be one with God. The early church was more of a hindrance then help in this matter, much like it is today.

What were His heretical ideas, many gentiles and Sammaritans held heretic ideas lived those time and wernt killed,
Why did the Jews kill Christ

John 8:56-59 "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad." 57The Jews therefore said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" 58Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." 59Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple."
John 10:27-36, "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. 29"My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30"I and the Father are one." 31The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God." 34Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law, 'I said, you are gods'? 35"If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), 36do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'?"


read some more if you are allowed
carm.org...

reply to post by Jusvistn


"To me, Jesus is separate from God, and I have a hard time calling them one in the same, and I have difficulty with the God made flesh aspect that brings us to the whole Son, Spirit, Holy Ghost thing..... For me, to believe in the "one true God" means that Jesus would be no more than a teacher as what you would find preaching from the front of the church today. So I ask again, could Jesus be the Deception, and in his "teachings" be pulling the people away from God and into his own agenda?" Quote Jusvistn

Trying to 'wrap your head' around any of this will result in a deformed head...bite-size pieces (fit to scale) will still need digesting, but, you cooked, cut and fed yourself...instead of being force-fed chunky beef that was overcooked...

Fire is fire...in it there is no separation of fire...same flame, same properties...

Humans intrinsically hide things from themselves (comfort box syndrome)...deception is manipulation...deceit also occurs on subjectively personal levels (without outside forces necessarily involved)...but, having deceived oneself (and the removal of oneself from blame) a scapegoat is necessary (internal logic deems that this must be so) enter, any outside force you could care to nominate...the christian Little Golden Book is full of them...

Work from the general to the specific.

Å99

Originally posted by pthena
reply to post by NihilistSanta

That being God was raising a nation and wiping out the remnant of giants and their offspring that survived the flood.

So you think that the character you call "God" succeeded in basically wiping out all of humanity in a vain attempt to kill giants and failed to kill the giants?

Has it occurred to you that these other "deities" like Baal were borrowing aspects of the true creator?

The idea used to be forced on me, but now it seems that the Baals and Els and such were around before Yahweh made any literary appearance. The Egyptian god Amun is the only ancient deity mentioned as having created what is out of nothing.

It seems obvious considering the limited range of abilities these other gods had and the fact that they had 0 power to ensure the survival of their "people" that they are the false amalgamations you are speaking of.

What? The Canaanites became Israel. They survived just fine until Assyrian god Ashur showed up with his army. Then Marduk.showed up with his Babylonian army.

God always leaves a remnant so its not like he failed it is a symbol.

Yes other gods were worshiped before the writing of the bible. How does that prove the God of the bible is somehow false? Enoch basically explains where your other gods come from and genesis as well. Oral tradition does not negate these ideas simply because it had to be canonized into a book at a later date.

I meant by "people" the priest class and proponents of these gods and ideas. They did not survive. There is no global congregation devoted to the worship of any of these gods in any official capacity. They are relegated to the history books and secret societies and fringe reconstructionist. I guess the proof is in the pudding? God trampled these little gods through his followers and showed his might. He took a rag tag group of wanderers and turned them into a formidable nation for a time and an even more powerful and unlikely nation today. Not to mention the billion or so christians in the world . Where is the might of Marduk or Ashur today? If their was any truth to their teachings then people would not have just abandoned these ideas and deities.

Do you recall the NDE experience where the guy died and Marduk was standing there with open arms? Me neither.

reply to post by NihilistSanta


"Do you recall the NDE experience where the guy died and Marduk was standing there with open arms? Me neither. "

...and so goes the power of marketing...

Å99

A book can never prove anything either for or against about
who God is.Simply stated Jesus(the cartoon character the religious worship) is not God and cannot be proven by belief of what is written in the bible.Yahoshua(who the religious believe is Jesus but isn't) IS God and it can't be proven by what is written in the scriptures... it can only be known when revealed by God.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

I think there's far too many fanatics in this thread to discuss this issue rationally...

Nothing new presented either... just the same old arguments that hold no water...

I think there are as well, your same old argument never stops and you complain about the Christian argument.

The point is Christians can defend their beliefs with apologetics and scripture, you just make stuff up from every where. Then call us fanatics, yet you are in every religious thread basing your beliefs on an eclectic assortment of everything.
Attacking the bible and Christianity....I wonder why

If Jesus was a deception then I am refreshedly deceived.
Content in my stupidity
Love is His message and glorifying God in our actions based on love.

John 15:18 "If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first.
biblehub.com/john/15-18.htm‎

reply to post by akushla99


Way to elaborate. Care to join the conversation or do you prefer to post one liners as your post history indicates. Perhaps you should review the posting guidelines. "(Minimal posts that contribute nothing to the thread are subject to immediate removal.)" its underneath the reply button when you write your post.

For someone who denies absolute truth you sure are certain of your ideas.

Granted NDEs are nothing concrete except to those who experience them but again if there was any merit to the idea that God of the bible is just a manufactured deity then how come this cross cultural experience happens to atheist, children, and non Christians? How come we don't hear/see the evidence of divine intervention of Marduk or Baal or anyone else in the lives of people at present?

reply to post by borntowatch


I make stuff up and attack "Christianity"?

Care to point out your claim?

If Jesus was a deception then I am refreshedly deceived.
Content in my stupidity
Love is His message and glorifying God in our actions based on love.

And slandering me is loving right?

When did I say anything about Jesus in this thread... or anything ever that makes him less then the son of God...

Please do show me where I've said such things?

who pissed in your cornflakes?

Originally posted by NihilistSanta
reply to post by akushla99

 

Way to elaborate. Care to join the conversation or do you prefer to post one liners as your post history indicates. Perhaps you should review the posting guidelines. "(Minimal posts that contribute nothing to the thread are subject to immediate removal.)" its underneath the reply button when you write your post.

For someone who denies absolute truth you sure are certain of your ideas.

Granted NDEs are nothing concrete except to those who experience them but again if there was any merit to the idea that God of the bible is just a manufactured deity then how come this cross cultural experience happens to atheist, children, and non Christians? How come we don't hear/see the evidence of divine intervention of Marduk or Baal or anyone else in the lives of people at present?

"Way to elaborate"...you don't seem to have had any miscomprehension of my 'in-form' one liner...my previous post in this thread was waaay 'out of character', according to your opinion?

"Contributing nothing" is an opinion...

It seems you missed the answer to your subsequent questions, while berating me for T&C violations...sorry you missed this...

P.S. I have no idea where you got the idea that I deny absolute truth?!...and if this is what you are basing your discomfort of my comments on...it is one paperfold too much that you have made...of that I am certain...'absolutely'...

Å99

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by borntowatch

 

I make stuff up and attack "Christianity"?

Care to point out your claim?

If Jesus was a deception then I am refreshedly deceived.
Content in my stupidity
Love is His message and glorifying God in our actions based on love.

And slandering me is loving right?

When did I say anything about Jesus in this thread... or anything ever that makes him less then the son of God...

Please do show me where I've said such things?

who pissed in your cornflakes?

edit on 11-7-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

Well if I got it wrong my apologies

reply to post by akushla99


Perhaps you should change your sig if you do not want people to think you do not believe in absolute truth

What is your position on the deity of Christ? your reply would be a contribution (hopefully) so that we can begin a discourse on the pros and cons of that position or you could continue to indulge us with more undefined remarks.

Your previous contribution (this refers to the post consisting of more than one line) is highly subjective and does not convey the point you are attempting to make. Care to elaborate?

Originally posted by NihilistSanta


The thread might as well be a Marvel "What If...." issue that is no different than the "What if God is the Devil?" threads since OP hasn't offered anything substantial to support his premise other than a mishmash of other philosophies/religions taken out of their original context and meaning which can be construed to represent anything and added a bit of paranoia by questioning the motivations of a man who died for his beliefs.

edit on 11-7-2013 by NihilistSanta because: (no reason given)

Hey thanks - would love to try to add to my post, but I do have a LIFE outside ATSand It's taking me some time to read all of the posts here and put together a meaningful reply.

Or would you rather I just jump in and post/reply with more of the same paranoid mishmash of mixed up and confused philosophies?

After all, my OP did say that I am learning and trying to understand and looking for some insight.

Originally posted by NihilistSanta
reply to post by akushla99

 

Perhaps you should change your sig if you do not want people to think you do not believe in absolute truth

What is your position on the deity of Christ? your reply would be a contribution (hopefully) so that we can begin a discourse on the pros and cons of that position or you could continue to indulge us with more undefined remarks.

Your previous contribution (this refers to the post consisting of more than one line) is highly subjective and does not convey the point you are attempting to make. Care to elaborate?

...and you are really from the North Pole?...and would have me believe you are 'jolly'?

Paradise Son holds a unique place in the 'history' of the locus we find ourselves in...
What is not unique, is the origami with which a truth can be so mangled and distorted, that presents us millisecond by millisecond with a new paperfolded creation at the thought of that paperfold...whatever you believe...is true...

...this would prompt you to ad hoc label what you do not understand in my posts as 'undefined & highly subjective'...that part...IS true for you...I have no problem with this...illumination is not a democratic process, and I would never stand in anyones' way/path, unless my eyes could see a trapdoor (and then, only as informational - to let FREE WILL take its course in them)...I would be remiss, as a flame from the great conflagration, to not impart this information...

Language is a confetti bomb, or as Burroughs said 'a virus from outer space'...we are speaking the same language, you do know your ABC's...a description of a pain in my sciatica is subjective...that doesn't make it false...

Å99

Originally posted by Jusvistn
I appreciate the responses...... for me though, the bible seems to contradict itself so much. And maybe Jesus never actually said "hey dudes, I'm God now, follow me and worship me!" but somewhere along the way, it seems that that is exactly what folks did....
You go to church, and during the course of the sermon, you hear Jesus mentioned over and over and over, "Jesus said" this and "Jesus said" that, and lets bow our heads and pray "dear Lord", "dear Jesus"...... It's not Dear GOD. "One day at a time, sweet Jesus", and so many other hymns written more in the name of Jesus than of God.... So, saying that, would that not indicate that the word of Jesus has essentially led the "flock" astray from God?

We put images of Jesus in our churches, and on our walls, and though we cannot know the face of God, could we not Honor God with praying hands, and eyes uplifted to his glory?

I am just finding that the more I try to learn and follow the teachings, the more disturbed I get by the way people are interpreting them....

In an every day scenario, isn't it the ones that are saying "trust me" over and over the ones you find you cannot "trust" in the end?

You're on the right track...its the Church who is wrong, not the original teachings. Read them for yourself its the onky way you will ever know. And its available everywher moreso than any other document so theres no excuse. I implore you to read the words of Jesus. And reject the big churches... Don't donate money, instead do the good works yourself. Make actual contact with the needy. Doing good things isn't like a bill you can pay every month. You need to spend time helping others, anyone...

Originally posted by GISMYS
reply to post by Kody27

 

AGAIN! BELIEVE GOD OR satan=your choice!===2 Timothy 3:16 ►

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

Mmmm the whole God and Satan thing is a Christian concept. I believe in neither, until you give me a better reason why besides, "just because the bible says so."

I don't have to choose between the two, if you haven't already figured it out, there are several thousand Gods to choose from, but I do believe they all pull from the same source, aka the universe, which is the closest thing to God that there can be.

reply to post by NihilistSanta


Concerning NDEs,believe me,the human mind is more powerful than you can comprehend.....

Well, if Satan (according to the Bible and other related texts) is the king of all lies and deception, we can't be sure of anything.


For all we know, Satan is God, and created the entire thing to lure Humans into unknowingly worshiping an Angel of Evil.





It's all been thought of before.





Solipsism seems to be the best option to me.

reply to post by Kody27

Originally posted by Kody27
Mmmm the whole God and Satan thing is a Christian concept.

No, it isn't.

Satan is Set-Hen (Eternal Set - The God of Darkness represented by a Jackal and SERPENT).

In the Egyptian Stories, "Set-hen" has the same role as "Satan". Set-hen is the rival or Horus who is the God who walked on walked, healedp people, raised the dead, died and resurrected to conquer death and was considered KRST (The anointed one - Christ). Just like Jesus, there is a prophecy that he will return for 1,000 years of peace on the Earth. Jesus was in the deserted to be tempted by "Satan", Horus was in the dessert to be tempted by "Set-hen", and this is only a FEW of the connections.

See my full post on this. HERE

Satan is also called "God of This world" (2 Corinthians 4:4) and he is represented by The Serpent who gave people a food of knowledge (The Book of Genesis).

In Sumerian Religion, Enki has the same story and the name "Enki" means "God of Earth". Also, Enki was "The Serpent God".

So "Satan" was not created by "Christianity", Satan is a being that is ancient and went by many names in these religions, most commonly: Set and Enki.

By the way, did you know, in Sanskrit "Sat" or "Satyan" means "Truth"? Later Hebrew changed the meaning to be "Adversary" or "Enemy". Sanskrit is a much older language.

Text I believe in GOD, I believe that there is an intelligent design to our planet, our environment and our species, but I truly struggle with the concept of Jesus as GOD.

reply to post by Jusvistn


@Jusvistn

Who says that Jesus was God? Which theological authority tells you this? Did you get this from the bible and which bible did you read it from, if you did?

I have read the 1611 KJV bible and have never understood that Jesus was God. As a matter of fact my bible has written that the Apostle John says that Jesus says that He is not God.

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Now if Jesus was God then this scripture is bogus isn't it? That is why I ask you for your source.