Schools Teaching Religious Fundamentalism Are Endangering Creative Thinking WORLD-WIDE

reply to post by wildtimes

Then go start your own country and mind your own business, and no one will bother you. It's when HUMAN RIGHTS are being ignored that "interventions" occur.

oh yes USA attacking other countries is all due to humanitarian causes.
I don't need to start my own country to speak up whats RIGHT. have the decency to use the same standards for everyone. If you don't want Sharia to be imposed on you, you should also not support installation of puppet democratic governments no matter what rosy humanitarian excuses are given unless ofcourse if you are that gullible.

You have enough people who don't
want democracy to start your own
nation?? - GO FOR IT! As soon as you
show the rest of the world how every person in your "country" is happy, healthy, properly EDUCATED in
PRACTICAL matters - including
Evolution, Archaeology, Paleontology,
Biology, Anthropology, Political
Science, Psychology, Human
Development (in terms of an individual's life span), carbon dating
and its derivatives, physics,
astronomy, language arts, reading,
writing, mathematics,history, civic
studies, social studies, and EVERY
ideology - and understands Secularism, Democracy, Communism,
Socialism, Totalitarianism,
Dictatorships, Tyranny, Corruption,
Criminal Justice, ALL of the World
Religions, and the REAL HORRORS OF
WAR - THEN you can start telling the rest of us what failures we are. Oh, wait! We already HAVE that here! Yeah, boo on us educated,
humanitarian people who want
everyone to have those same
freedoms to explore the world.

Is everyone HAPPY in USA? i doubt it.
Humanitarian people? oh yes the people are good just their leaders drop nuclear bombs and wage wars and commit/support genocides and the humanitarian people just watch it all silently because its not them who are yet directly affected, they just watch the news, shake there heads and says "these muslims are causing all the trouble and wars!"
you must have read the book celestine prophecy, it said a very good thing. The western people were badly scarred by the church and overthrew its authority and sent people to find spirituality and in the meantime started "progress" to make life easy and comfortable. Thats exactly what you are proud of now. A materialistic worldly progress and the education that facilitates it.
Muslims want progress but not by pushing away religion like the west did.
Progress is not the ultimate goal, the ultimate goal is the Creator/source, progress is a means to improve the world for people and establish justice and care about each other but never losing the sight of the ultimate goal otherwise its blind progress that ends up making people spiritually empty and nothing more than "evolved" intellectual monkeys just waiting to die!

Oh Yeah; Hey!! Malala gave a speech
yesterday - her 16th birthday. And she
mentioned the 57 MILLION or so kids
on this planet who have NO SCHOOLS
TO GO TO and insisted they should
NEVER be forgotten about. Did you catch that?

I feel bad about Malala. How that innocent girl is being used as a propaganda tool against Islam. I believe everyone should be educated, for the start, the basics of reading and writing. Then they should have access to everything they desire to read about.
I believe girls should be educated as they play a major role in raising kids and their intellectual development.
I am objecting to this odd perception that somehow Islam is against it all
just look at islamic history and you would know how untrue it is. Bhagdad, Kabul these were educational centres with Universities and libraries. It has changed in the last 200 years and now you judge Islam by the condition of muslims now.

Whats the use of boasting to have learnt history if you don't use it to understand the bigger picture?
Whats the use of learning psychology if it does not help you understand that the violent reaction from some muslims are due to a real agression against them?
Whats the use of being educated if you silently living under the rule of the most bloodthirsty war machine, war based economy where the gas in your car is mixed with the blood of millions of innocents.

reply to post by wildtimes

The article/blog by the Sudanese "apostate" has credibility because she LIVED IT. People will ALWAYS listen to a "former" person who has denounced the "system" in which they once lived. Look at Snowden - exposing the NSA for what it REALLY IS - and he's getting quite a bit of attention. He has a lot of credibility.

Islam is not a "secret agency" that a former agent can reveal its dirty secrets. This example however reveals your perception about Islam but the reality is Islam is open to be studied by anyone seriously interested to learn. Others will just rely on the people they percieve as authentic because they are "survivors" who escaped to tell the bloody truths! How very scary!!

By the way, the more aggressive your
posts are, and the more you talk about
people willing to do whatever, even if
it makes them terrorists ------ the more
it makes it look like YOU YOURSELF
would stoop to terrorist activities. Are YOU becoming a RADICALIZED
ISLAMIST, logical7?

you must be a US citizen! as its the US who labels any aggression against itself as terrorism when it ofcourse is suitable.
I percieve you as an Islam hater, are you?
I being aggressive in my post only indicates that i don't have much patience left to entertain obvious untrue assumptions about my religion.
It however is interesting how you twist it to label me as a potential future terrorist!
don't worry i am not going to either take the bait nor feel a need to defend myself and so let go my aggressive replies.
If you want a polite discussion start showing some genuine understanding and respect for Islam.

Your true colors and character are
really beginning to show through
now. Just so you know. It ain't pretty. ANY PERSON who has studied biology and physics and can say that "kids don't need to learn about evolution -
they can read about it as adults," has
some SERIOUS control issues and a
skewed view of the real world.

i read in your previous an advice to attack the post and not the poster. How about taking your own advice.

Do you think people were not productive individuals before Darwin published his "origin of species"?
Do you think kids are taught Quantum theory or theory of Relativity in schools? What difference would it make if theory of evolution would also be taught at higher level?
I had talked before about the example of "industrial melanism" being fake and so whats the justification in teaching a lie to support a theory? How about some integrity to remove that bit?
How about not telling kids a fairy tale in a "science" book to try and explain abiogenesis that lighting, heat and water along with simple elements and compounds somehow combined to make organic molecules that later ended up as a living cell.
No experiment has been able to duplicate it and yet it was their in my biology textbook and i believed it until later when i learnt that its just a tale. A fiction in a science book! Who put it there? And why?
And you tell me education is free from efforts of indoctrination.
All people in power know how effective education is in controlling people, in making them think a certain way and the best is what i heard from you and its making them believe that they have not been manipulated but are free educated beings doing their own free thinking!!

reply to post by logical7

I percieve you as an Islam hater, are you?

Nope.

How about not telling kids a fairy tale in a "science" book

Do you mean, 'evolution as a fact' is a fairy tale??

Nah. Instead, teach them that "Muhammed flew to heaven on a horse,and the Earth was created by the "God" of 'Genesis'"!!

EDIT TO ADD:
Wow. Oh, and ADD IN, they are GOING STRAIGHT TO HELL if they even for one moment consider "Evolution" to be REAL.


Whatever, log7.

reply to post by logical7

I feel bad about Malala. How that innocent girl is being used as a propaganda tool against Islam.

SHE
WAS
SHOT
IN
THE
HEAD
FOR
GOING
TO
SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, I feel bad for her, too.........that she was shot in the head trying to go to school!!!

Her statements are not propaganda...it's HER LIFE......
HOW DARE YOU???????
You are saying this young woman has no right to speak out????? That she's in shackles and has been tortured to say the things that she said??????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


OMG.
OH MY GOD.

reply to post by logical7

If you want a polite discussion start showing some genuine understanding and respect for Islam.

If you want a polite discussion, start showing some genuine understanding and respect for QUALITY EDUCATION.

reply to post by logical7

I don't need to start my own country to speak up whats RIGHT. have the decency to use the same standards for everyone. If you don't want Sharia to be imposed on you, you should also not support installation of puppet democratic governments no matter what rosy humanitarian excuses are given unless ofcourse if you are that gullible.

AND HERE YOU ARE AGAIN.....implying that I HAVE NOT

spoken out AGAINST the 'puppet government'!!!!

reply to post by logical7

Do you think kids are taught Quantum theory or theory of Relativity in schools?

Well....let me think.....




yes, IN THE WEST, THEY ARE!!!!!!!!

reply to post by wildtimes

Do you mean, 'evolution as a fact' is a fairy tale??

read my post again and you will know what exactly i called as a fairy tale.
You almost wanted me to accept your assumption because then you may have a reply for me.
I am skeptical about evolution. I agree with adaptation. We can never be certain of evolution as we cannot go in the past and observe it. We can just speculate by the data/observations that are available. Its like trying to figure out how a completely solved jig-saw puzzle would look like when we just have few pieces of it with us.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by logical7

 

I feel bad about Malala. How that innocent girl is being used as a propaganda tool against Islam.

SHE
WAS
SHOT
IN
THE
HEAD
FOR
GOING
TO
SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, I feel bad for her, too.........that she was shot in the head trying to go to school!!!

Her statements are not propaganda...it's HER LIFE......
HOW DARE YOU???????
You are saying this young woman has no right to speak out????? That she's in shackles and has been tortured to say the things that she said??????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


OMG.
OH MY GOD.

Let me give you an example.
Say a US soldier in Afghanistan rapes a local girl and the taliban take that event and let it be known all over Afghanistan to make the people become more hostile to the foreign forces by painting them all as savages and rapists.

If you call what taliban are doing as propaganda does that mean you are denying the rape or that her sufferings were not real or that she does not have a right to speak on local tv or she was forces to speak anything?

Now read my post again and try an understand me. Don't misunderstand me. I am surprized how many times you interpret what i say in a complete tangent way!

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by logical7

 

I don't need to start my own country to speak up whats RIGHT. have the decency to use the same standards for everyone. If you don't want Sharia to be imposed on you, you should also not support installation of puppet democratic governments no matter what rosy humanitarian excuses are given unless ofcourse if you are that gullible.

AND HERE YOU ARE AGAIN.....implying that I HAVE NOT

spoken out AGAINST the 'puppet government'!!!!

edit on 13-7-2013 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)

i know you speak against puppet government but i have also seen you disapprove of wishes of people in egypt as they are not in line with the path that the west took to be where it is now.
You also seem to buy into some of that dehumanizing anti-muslim propaganda and rather than question its validity/truth, you assume it true and ask muslim posters to refute it!
What happened to the "innocent until proven guilty" philosophy?
For muslims its "guilty unless proven innocent!!"

can you suspend you jugdement long enough to know the thinking of the other side?
Classic example is burkha/hijab. Yes you disappove of it. Now would you ask why muslimahs wear it or just keep believing that it is an oppressive obligation imposed by men!
Here's a 2.5min video to see if you can identify yourself anywhere in it.

reply to post by logical7


There was another Muslim woman who was viciously attacked by her fellow Muslims for daring to participate in a beauty contest. Some charitable doctors managed to repair the damage and she is now actively speaking out for women's rights.

Moral of the story: however way you want to look at it many of the Muslim traditions are archaic and highly oppressive. Not all, but many.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by logical7

 

There was another Muslim woman who was viciously attacked by her fellow Muslims for daring to participate in a beauty contest. Some charitable doctors managed to repair the damage and she is now actively speaking out for women's rights.

Moral of the story: however way you want to look at it many of the Muslim traditions are archaic and highly oppressive. Not all, but many.

There is a general increase in the mentality where people think they have a right to tell others how they should "be"
be it some muslims telling others or non-muslims telling muslims what their religion is/should be.

Some traditions sure are harmful but its a different question as to are they islamic.

Anyone attacking and hurting a woman is just a disgusting human.

For a muslimah its kind of insulting to degrade herself by exposing her nakedness to seek praise/fame. It would be like a nun going for a beauty contest!
If however a "muslim" girl wants to do it then she is free and should not be forced or harmed. Even God does not interfere in the Free will then who are humans to do it.
Its like what Jesus pbuh said that how can someone point at a spec in other's eye when they have a plank in their own!

Tell me, there are people at your place who lie and cheat in order to sleep with a girl, who abandon women when they get pregnant, who beat their gfs/wives etc. Is this a part of your culture/tradition?
Maybe some people at your place bycott a girl because she converted to Islam, maybe even threaten her with harm or actually hurt her, is that representing your values?

I live in a city that has a high crime rate. The public schools are awful.
The 'church' schools have a much better level of education and are safer.
The children coming out of them go to better colleges and are better behaved. (generally).
We sent our daughter to a Catholic all-girls high school. She did just fine.

Also ... previously ... we homeschooled until fifth grade so that we could keep our child out of
the public schools (which were messed up!) and out of the alternative - fundamentalist Christian
Schools (we lived in Alabama at the time). We thought both were awful ... for different reasons.

Just a few thoughts to interject ...

When it comes to schools ...
I DO think that religious fundamentalism is bad for humanity.
But sometimes the public school options are just as bad.

Buddhists say ... 'the middle way' ... and I think they are on to something ....

reply to post by logical7

Here's a 2.5min video to see if you can identify yourself anywhere in it.

Nope! Didn't see "me" in any of that!!! I don't stare at people with suspicion. I don't pay any attention to their dress or their baggage...I smile when someone makes eye contact with me.

If I'd had it on video, I could have showed you one of about the same length where I went to the local BP fuel station, and chatted with the muslim girl behind the bullet-proof glass barrier...we were both smiling. Then I went out to fill up my gas can for the mower - and a black girl and a black man came up to me and said, Excuse me, do you have a lighter?
I felt my pockets and said, "No, I left it at home - but --- i have one in the car, if you like!" They said "sure, thanks!" and I sat there all 'vulnerable and defenseless' as my car lighter heated up, offered it to them, and they even offered me a hit off of their smoke. I laughed and said, no, thanks, I'm fine.

Then I went two doors down to the liquor store, where a lovely Hindu lady works, and she saw me and her eyes lit up and she said, "Hi!" because SHE RECOGNIZES ME. As I was leaving, a black man held the door open for me, and I thanked him, and he smiled. WE DON'T HAVE THOSE PROBLEMS HERE.

And, for the record, I found a site called Islamicity.com yesterday.....I bet you would even approve of it!!!! It said the same things you are always talking about. ........

But it doesn't change the fact that Malala was shot in the head. Or that Pakistani and Saudi schools won't teach evolution. Or that two teenage girls were SHOT DEAD by their brother for DANCING TOGETHER IN THE RAIN!

I judge people by their demeanor - I can tell friendly from neutral or sad or worried or relaxed or hostile, very quickly. ONE LOOK IN THEIR EYES, AT THEIR FACE, I can tell. I can FEEL it. CAN YOU????

Suit guy was obviously looking suspicious.
Sorry, another fail on your part to make me an Islamophobe or racist/cultural hater.

reply to post by logical7

You also seem to buy into some of that dehumanizing anti-muslim propaganda and rather than question its validity/truth,

VIDEOS OF MEN HACKING HOODED PEOPLE'S HEADS OFF, OR BUTCHERING AN INNOCENT SOLDIER, ARE NOT "VALID"?? They aren't TRUE?

Whatever. :shk:

reply to post by logical7

read my post again and you will know what exactly i called as a fairy tale.

It wasn't a "fairy tale" at the time - it was thought to be the method.
Just like when Muhammed was alive, people thought the earth was FLAT, and that the SUN was somehow "moving".

Science texts can be found that state things we now KNOW to be false. Then they get updated....
which is what should happen to religious texts as well.

reply to post by wildtimes

If I'd had it on video, I could have showed you one of about the same length where I went to the local BP fuel station, and chatted with the muslim girl behind the bullet-proof glass barrier...we were both smiling. Then I went out to fill up my gas can for the mower - and a black girl and a black man came up to me and said, Excuse me, do you have a lighter? I felt my pockets and said, "No, I left it at home - but --- i have one in the car, if you like!" They said "sure, thanks!" and I sat there all 'vulnerable and defenseless' as my car lighter heated up, offered it to them, and they even offered me a hit off of their smoke. I laughed and said, no, thanks, I'm fine. Then I went two doors down to the liquor store, where a lovely Hindu lady works, and she saw me and her eyes lit up and she said, "Hi!" because SHE RECOGNIZES ME. As I was leaving, a black man held the door open for me, and I thanked him, and he smiled. WE DON'T HAVE THOSE PROBLEMS HERE.

I appreciate that!
I am not at all eager to make you look bad. My first impression about you was that you are a good human being and it has not changed. I however do get very annoyed sometimes and snap at you. You do that too.

And, for the record, I found a site
called Islamicity.com yesterday.....I bet
you would even approve of it!!!! It
said the same things you are always
talking about. ........

But it doesn't change the fact that Malala was shot in the head. Or that
Pakistani and Saudi schools won't
teach evolution. Or that two
teenage girls were SHOT DEAD by
their brother for DANCING TOGETHER
IN THE RAIN!

its a good site

Malala was wronged and i am not going to defend whoever did it.
A brother killing his sisters is extremely WRONG!
I am not denying these things. I do understand why these happen and i want these things to stop. It is misdirect hatred.
It would be the same as a family breaking ties with a son/daughter that accepted Islam as they percieve it as going into "enemy camp" whom they hate.
Many muslims hate USA for obvious reasons and anyone seen as liking the american way becomes a target of that hate.
Malala wanted to acquire knowledge and the teen sisters wanted to have fun in the rain both of the above are very fine to be done in Islam but the idiots who shot them percieved it as their leaning towards western way and reacted

I judge people by their demeanor - I
can tell friendly from neutral or sad or
worried or relaxed or hostile, very
quickly. ONE LOOK IN THEIR EYES, AT
THEIR FACE, I can tell. I can FEEL it. CAN
YOU????

YES I CAN.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by logical7

 

You also seem to buy into some of that dehumanizing anti-muslim propaganda and rather than question its validity/truth,

VIDEOS OF MEN HACKING HOODED PEOPLE'S HEADS OFF, OR BUTCHERING AN INNOCENT SOLDIER, ARE NOT "VALID"?? They aren't TRUE?

Whatever. :shk:

Would you try to understand why some people do these barberic things or just react and conclude that it must be their religion?
You want it to stop, i want it to stop but you cannot extinguish a fire by throwing fuel on it and your idiotic government and also the one in UK do exactly that!
It looks a very patriotic statement when some political leader says "We will not bend down to these terrorists.. blah..blah...blah"

The actions of these terrorists are due to desperation where a misdirected religious belief provides the trigger and the justification.
The desperation/complain is however genuine and it is basically "injustice"

but the idiotic governments won't bend their stiff back and think "are we doing anything wrong to cause these problems?" they intensify their "war on terror" and drop some more bombs and round up many more innocent muslims, doing more injustice and create more potential terrorists!

Very honestly, the governments and their think-tanks/advisers are not fools to not understand this all but their aim is not to resolve this and bring peace rather it is to intensify the fire as many corporations now bake their bread by this fire!

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by logical7

 

read my post again and you will know what exactly i called as a fairy tale.

It wasn't a "fairy tale" at the time - it was thought to be the method.
Just like when Muhammed was alive, people thought the earth was FLAT, and that the SUN was somehow "moving".

Science texts can be found that state things we now KNOW to be false. Then they get updated....
which is what should happen to religious texts as well.

i was talking about the explanation of abiogenesis that was in my science textbooks! How can it be just put there, how is it any different from "umm.. maybe God started life" to be included into science textbooks. Well ok i agree that now it has been proven untrue, so has it been removed? Along with the example of industrial melanism?

Yes arabs in 7th century believed that the earth is flat and has mountains on all ends and the sky is resting on them as a roof.
But the Qur'an tells
That earth is egg shaped(oval).

That the sun and moon swim along predermined orbits.

That the mountains though look firm and stationary are really moving like clouds.

The mountains are pegs that keep the earth from shaking.

That God is expanding the universe.

So if a religious text keeps on confirming new scientific findings then it deserves some acknowledgement.

Btw, Quran also tells that God created all living things from water.

reply to post by logical7

But the Qur'an tells
That earth is egg shaped(oval).

It isn't egg-shaped

That the sun and moon swim along predermined orbits.

The sun doesn't orbit the Earth. Any fool can see that the moon follows patterns. Lunar religions LONG predate Islam.

That the mountains though look firm and stationary are really moving like clouds.

The mountains are pegs that keep the earth from shaking.

The mountains are not moving like clouds, and they do NOT keep the Earth from shaking. Shaking is what CREATES mountains - tectonic plates, and you know that.

That God is expanding the universe.

That the universe is expanding does not mean "God" is doing it.

So if a religious text keeps on confirming new scientific findings then it deserves some acknowledgement.

People say the same thing about the OT and NT. I say all religious texts are tools of manipulation.

WHY do you keep hammering on me? I'm not going to answer your questions to me in the other thread, either, and I really have nothing more to say to you, logical7. Find someone else to browbeat. You won't convince me of anything. Walk your own path, and leave me to mine.

I do not 'worship' my 'self', and I will NOT worship Muhammed, or God, or anyone else.

YOU are responsible for YOUR LIFE; and those barbarians who are lopping people's heads off in the name of "Allah", maiming and killing young girls and pitching a tantrum about how OTHER PEOPLE live can NOT blame "the West" for their savagery. Deal with it. I don't think politics and religion should have ANYTHING to do with one another.