The Terror Ties That Bind Us to War! Updated Info

I have no links to my post. This is all information that one can search for. Ty

Originally posted by magical communications
I have no links to my post. This is all information that one can search for. Ty

Your whole post is a copy/paste from a paper titled "The Death Of Liberalism" by a person named Raymond S. Kraft. Check this link: www.tysknews.com....

Edit to add: simply provide your source and a link next time, mc.


[edit on 12-11-2004 by Durden]

Originally posted by IBM
Excuse me, no one brainwashed me, I accepeted the strong values of the Republican party myself. I dont know what makes you normal, just because you believe in something else. I believe you need to have a psychatriaist check your head out.

Well, then, you'll be happy now! IBM, LOST SAILOR, EDSIGNER, you win!!!! Yeah they won!....I'm leaving you and still THINK that you are brainwashed!
Don't EVER talk to me AGAIN!

Unconditional love won't win against evil!

Amelia



[edit on 12/11/04 by Amelia]

There is a very dangerous minority in Islam that either has--or wants to have, and may soon have--the ability to deliver small nuclear, biological, or chemical weapons, almost anywhere in the world, unless it is prevented from doing so. France, Germany, and Russia, have been selling these Islamics nations weapons technology at least as recently as 2002, as have North Korea, Syria, and Pakistan--paid for with billions of dollars that Saddam Hussein skimmed from the "Oil For Food" program administered by the United Nations with the complicity of Kofi Annan and his son.
The Jihadis, or the militant Muslims, are basically Nazis in Kaffiyahs. They believe that Islam, a radically conservative (definitely not liberal!) form of Wahhabi Islam, should own and control the Middle East first, then Europe, then the world, and that all who do not bow to Allah should be killed, enslaved, or subjugated. They want to finish the Holocaust, destroy Israel, and purge the world of Jews. This is what they say.

The modern Saudi state is founded on the 18th-century alliance between the Wahhabi religious movement and the House of Saud - the family that has ruled the Saudi kingdom since its creation in the 1930s.

taken from - news.bbc.co.uk...

if you read the entire article, it looks like saudi arabia is where the wahhabi movement is based out of...and funny enough, 15 of the hijackers from 9/11 were from guess where...? that's right folks, saudi arabia! so why aren't we invading saudi arabia? any of my conservative countrymen care to take a stab at that one?

There are two sides to the Iraq issue. Two sides.

On one hand:
1) Bush misrepresented the case to go to war and that is appalling.
2) We most definitely went into Iraq to liberate the people & not, say, the Sudan or other places: because Iraq is oil-rich
3) We are in a big mess in Iraq now because our president did not plan this thing properly & he failed to use diplomacy to increase the Coalition Of The Willing
4) Now the US is screwed because if we do not stay in Iraq and see this through to the end, some new extremist or bunch of extremists will take over Iraq and there will be constant civil war & bloodshed. But if we stay, countless American soliders will die.

On the other hand:
1) Saddam Hussein was an indescribably evil, dangerous son of a b**ch who is responsible for the deaths of countless people--the world is better off without him and his regime
2) While I believe the link between Iraq & Al Queda was tenuous at best--Hussein's was a regime that supported terrorism, terrorized his own people & neighbors, and would have aquired weapons of mass destruction to either hurt the US OR sell them to somebody who could
3) The argument that Bush should have waited longer "to let the inspectors in" is laughable and shame on any liberal who parrots this absurd view. Saddam was never going to fully disclose his weapons program--he had a proven track record of this.
4) Under Hussein the Iraqi counterparts to the people who make up our own ATS never had a chance to engage in free thought or discussion as we do without the threat of torture & death. Now they have a chance. Yes, it's a chaotic, dangerous world in post-war Iraq. But at least they have a chance now to express themselves--whereas under Hussein they had NO CHANCE AT ALL. Put yourself in their shoes.

There are two sides to every case. That's because life is complicated. Extremists on either side of the ideological spectrum--conservative & liberals--are going about this with blinders on.

It makes you wonder who REALLY benefits when the nation becomes polarized by two extremist viewpoints, doesn't it?

Wake up & stop mindlessly touting your party line. Wake up and admit that life is complicated. And then research & find out why we are being split as a nation instead of being encouraged to look at things with a balanced point of view. Try to find out why your politicians, your media, and your religions (I include secular humanism in this) are all encouraging the polarizing "black & white" viewpoint of the world. Then you'll see some real progress.

You want to assume the role of the levelheaded mediator here, Cassie Clay. However as so many others before you, in your conclusion you completely fail to realize that this issue isn't one merely of political preference and the neverending argument between Democrats and Republicans.


[edit on 12-11-2004 by Durden]

Originally posted by Durden
You want to assume the role of the levelheaded mediator here, Cassie Clay. However as so many else before you, in your conclusion you completely fail to realize that this issue isn't one merely of political preference and the neverending argument between Democrats and Republicans.

You're right. It's more of an issue of how many people support US world domination, and how many don't. When I say "people", I'm not referring to Americans only. Americans are being very selfish in assuming this is all their decision. I think the future holds some unpleasant surprises for some of us. I won't be so surprised. I've known these conflicts were coming for as long as I can remember.

Personally I thought it more of the difference between solid evidence and conjecture... subtle but really quite important differences that a few people have yet to realise.

Originally posted by Amelia

Originally posted by IBM
Excuse me, no one brainwashed me, I accepeted the strong values of the Republican party myself. I dont know what makes you normal, just because you believe in something else. I believe you need to have a psychatriaist check your head out.

Well, then, you'll be happy now! IBM, LOST SAILOR, EDSIGNER, you win!!!! Yeah they won!....I'm leaving you and still THINK that you are brainwashed!
Don't EVER talk to me AGAIN!

Unconditional love won't win against evil!

Amelia

[edit on 12/11/04 by Amelia]

Just because I bring up a valid point? I thought the motto of this forum was deny ignorance, not embrace it. Just because I say something and you do not like it does not mean you should not listen to it.

the US is quite capable of using technology and resources to have a better defense here at home, thus making an offensive approach obsolete.

Most people in this country, and in other countries, have never thought about what it might be like to be completely invaded and overthrown by an outside party.

We got a taste that woke everyone up, and we didnt like it and obviously dont want it to happen again even in other countries.. or do we?

why is it that we dont expect to be invaded, and wouldnt like it...but are so quick to praise and boast about invading some other country for whatever reasons...

One thing i keep in mind is, for one, the arabian people have lived there for thousands of years...we showed up here just recently to get away from the control of england, we killed off the natives, then enslaved and imported other natives from another continent to build our economy or whatever.
and that same race is still struggling for freedom.

How can you tell me that a war in iraq is right or wrong?
take your links and shove them

And did you hear tonight the news that the residents of FALLUJA are comming out and greeting the Americans AFTER they have gained control from the terrorists?

That was a breath of fresh air, once they knew they were safe, they came out and GREETED the American's.

Terrorism means to murder innocent people and to punish them for crimes they didn't commit. If this is true, then sure Bin Laden should be murdered, but not before every American World War 2 veteran and Vietnamese War veteran is murdered as well.

Originally posted by no_fear007
Terrorism means to murder innocent people and to punish them for crimes they didn't commit. If this is true, then sure Bin Laden should be murdered, but not before every American World War 2 veteran and Vietnamese War veteran is murdered as well.

No terrorism is the 'control' the masses with fear of being killed, to use any means nessesary to accomplish the goals. To get press coverage of the killing is the goal of these types. To gloat over innocent death to further their stated goal.

Originally posted by edsinger
And did you hear tonight the news that the residents of FALLUJA are comming out and greeting the Americans AFTER they have gained control from the terrorists?

That was a breath of fresh air, once they knew they were safe, they came out and GREETED the American's.

No? really? that is absolutely wonderful!

Now tell me, do you expect to find the news reports of the Iraqis who are greeting the insurgents in other cities? Did al Jazeera report this news to you? After all, the best evidence of truth is when the opposing side reports your way. Did they take a census of the Iraqi people praising the coalition? How many were they, and how many of the residents do they amount to?

Remember the flowers? What about the closed in view of all the Iraqis in Baghdad when Saddam's statue came down? Some proclaimed thousands. Why Rumsfeld almost had to change his depends during the press conference he was so excited. The reality was...a generous 500, a very generous 500.

Somewhereinbetween
Did al Jazeera report this news to you? After all, the best evidence of truth is when the opposing side reports your way.

- Who the hell is going to believe Al-Jazeera. they bend and twist the story so its how they want it to sound, When you get your news from Fox and CNN you know that what there reporting is the truth. You cant possibly take Al-Jazeera news seriously.

Originally posted by Murcielago

- Who the hell is going to believe Al-Jazeera. they bend and twist the story so its how they want it to sound, When you get your news from Fox and CNN you know that what there reporting is the truth. You cant possibly take Al-Jazeera news seriously.

Some of these people can I am afraid........

Edsinger - about the Iraqis greeting the American soldiers... I have no doubt it indeed happened.

However, there's an interesting tale that dates back to 1815, when Napoleon made his return from Elba and toppled King Louis XVIII. He stopped in an inn, and the innkeeper's wife, serving him some lunch, shouted "Vive l'Empereur!" (long live the Emperor). Napoleon cynically retorted, "Here is one who was probably shouting 'Long live the King' a few days ago!" To which the woman said, "Oh, you know, us small people, as long as we can still shout 'Long live' someone!"

Originally posted by Otts
Edsinger - about the Iraqis greeting the American soldiers... I have no doubt it indeed happened.

So you think that the great majorty of iraqi's miss saddam and hate the US? I would like to see the results of that poll in both Iraq and Iran.

You might be surprised.

I do not doubt the Iraqis we glad to be freed from Saddam. But history shows that it is harder to keep than to conquer.

When the Black Prince conquered Aquitaine in France in 1360, the people hoped they'd have a better life with him as prince than they had had with the French. However, he quickly became seen as another tyrant who raised taxes to finance his wars, and when the French came back in 1369, they were seen as liberators. When the French took Naples in 1496, they were welcomed as liberators too. When the local Italian prince (formerly seen as a tyrant) took it back in 1497, he was welcomed as a liberator.

I believe that the Americans in Iraq are trying to organize the country according to a model that doesn't take into account the history, traditions and inner divisions of Iraq. You can't just go in there thinking you're going to spread democracy and that it's going to work the same way it does in the West. The Iraqis are not Americans. And until the Americans understand that, things are going to go downward.

Originally posted by Murcielago
[When you get your news from Fox and CNN you know that what there reporting is the truth. You cant possibly take Al-Jazeera news seriously.

I think I'll just piss in my g-string

Sorry, Just wanted to share that....I'm leaving

Ameliaxxx