Two girls, 11 and 16, sexually assaulted off Brighton beach - UK

reply to post by stumason


Well I am sorry that I made Jesus cry but when I read your post originally it came off sounding differently. A thousand pardons. If you have had to explain your comment so many times to us stoopid Americans then maybe its the way you worded your comment that is causing the misunderstanding? Yeesh.

Prevention? You think the hierarchy of the Catholic church handled their child molesters in some constructive way? Gee I was under the impression they got caught literally with there pants down with choir boys and the resulting scandal forced them to deal with a few of these sick men. It was my understanding that they covered up this bit of nastiness for who knows how long? Hundreds of years? IMHO its still going on just like men raping women everyday everywhere in every country.

You got a post on how you want to rally the community in preventing these men from molesting boys?

No matter Because I don't hold the whole of the Catholic faith responsible for the actions of the church hierarchy and some very sick men. I know that each individual needs to be held accountable for there actions and not the whole of their faith. In fact their personal beliefs don't mean squat to me. Rape is rape not a religion.

This stoopid American would like to add some statistics on rape. I wouldn't want your head to pop. I think you will find rape is rape regardless of someones religious belief. Apparently Its been happening for a long long time now. I mean since the beginning of time. A shame really that you didn't get upset about it until it became a belief in your mind that Muslims raping/molesting your women is some how more of an atrocity than just a rape.

I am very sorry to anyone who has gone through this. I really am not trying to make rape sound trivial because its not.

You know it seems to me that some would have me believe that Muslims are to blame for everything wrong in the world today. I just might be tempted to believe it ..... if I were a bigot of course.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Anusuia


what is the end result -- england changes to accomodate the muslims because the muslims in this instance, don't or can't or won't, accomodate england. so the ladies will all end up looking like nuns. lol

oh yeah, that'll happen.

a whole country of penguins!

i know you just starred me cause whoppi rocks. lol
but honestly, covering up the women? they are already covered up. if folks would recall, our ancestors put on animal skins, not gunney sacks. i can just imagine god getting pissed because the animal skin didnt cover eve's wrists or her ankles were showing. and adam's neighbor saying, oh hey there momma baby, you showing some skin so now you're a free party. and adam having to straighten him out: DUDE, GET A WATERMELON. sheesh.

Originally posted by undo
i know you just starred me cause whoppi rocks. lol
but honestly, covering up the women? they are already covered up. if folks would recall, our ancestors put on animal skins, not gunney sacks.

You got the star for using sister act in this thread lol

I don't know why but it struck me funny

I don't believe a woman should cover herself unless its her choice. The why of why she might cover herself makes no difference to me.

reply to post by SuicideBankers

You got the star for using sister act in this thread lol

uh huh uh huh, see, i knew it. lol
now if we women types were meant to be covered from head to toe, pray tell why didn't god instruct that from the outset. he didn't deliver eve a dress and a hat and say, "here put this on and don't let me see those wrists or ankles!" so clearly the reason is not because god said so, it's because someone else said so. in the new testament, paul suggests women wear a head covering because of the "angels". now this is a reference to when the "sons of god (angels) took the daughters of men as wives", which was a no-no. not because some guy couldn't control himself but because some wayward ETs were snatchin the wemen folk and impregnating them with hybrids.

le mew, le sigh.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by SuicideBankers

 

You got the star for using sister act in this thread lol

uh huh uh huh, see, i knew it. lol
now if we women types were meant to be covered from head to toe, pray tell why didn't god instruct that from the outset. he didn't deliver eve a dress and a hat and say, "here put this on and don't let me see those wrists or ankles!" so clearly the reason is not because god said so, it's because someone else said so. in the new testament, paul suggests women wear a head covering because of the "angels". now this is a reference to when the "sons of god (angels) took the daughters of men as wives", which was a no-no. not because some guy couldn't control himself but because some wayward ETs were snatchin the wemen folk and impregnating them with hybrids.

le mew, le sigh.

edit on 9-7-2013 by undo because: (no reason given)

My personal belief is freedom for all. I don't think a woman should cover herself because i like to look at women errrr well some women and men as well should cover themselves but that's a debate for another time.. If its her belief so be it but nothing should be forced on her.

I have always believed that most religions view women as inferior to men. I also believe that a good person is a good person no matter what they believe. In other words I don't believe a good (insert religion/philosophy here) man would hurt anyone intentionally.

reply to post by SuicideBankers


i think the guys that are doing that, think it's okay, not because they are bad people, but because their social order got a screwed up version of the desirability of head coverings. it wasn't to punish the women. it wasn't to hide them from the men. it wasn't a free ticket to molest anyone who didn't have one, unless they are trying to say that they are the angels who the text warns about, in which case they're in a whole lot of trouble with the big guy (i don't think they are the angels referenced in the text. i mean, if they are, where's their nephilim offspring huh huh? yeah........)

reply to post by SuicideBankers


The difference being that most cultures believe that rape is wrong, and punish the rapists for their actions, but many sectors of Islam teaches that women should cover themselves, and if they are out alone, unaccompanied by a male relative, and they get raped, it is their own fault, and then actually punish the women for getting raped.

Do you think this is fine and dandy?

Personally I don't care for the Catholic church because of the way the religion is so sexually repressive. Their priest take vows of chastity, and all too many wind up sexual perverts who rape children, and the church covers it up.

Islam is Catholicism on steroids.

I look at it this way.

If you drink and drive, supposedly it increases the chance that you might injure or kill someone, so if you are caught drinking and driving, you are severely punished even though you have done no harm to anyone.

It seems that if you are a Muslim male, it increases the chances that you might rape a woman, and or hurt or kill others due to religious beliefs, so maybe men who practice Islam should be treated like drivers who drink.

In fact, if you look at history, certain religions are responsible for most of the horrific atrocities committed against humanity.

Maybe the better answer would be to treat all those who practice these religions to be treated like drunk drivers.

reply to post by stumason


*sigh*... please studyt geography next time or at least try to keep things in order.

This is how you categorization devolved into....

...people from the Indian subcontinent....

or India of late, of women being routinely sexually assaulted

So not only you used India SUBCONTINENT as another term for India but in reality, Indian subcontinents has Pakistan and Bangladesh... then you associate Muslims with India like they are a interchangeable term, thus apply all of the British Muslim atrocities to India...

India is different culturally compared to Muslim countries, maybe you didn't know. im sure you don't.

The article didn't even mention anything other than "Gang of Asians".. you pulled certain things out of your rear to paint not only the entire Muslims, but entire India as well.... 3 Billion people? okay go on ahead.

reply to post by poet1b


not gonna happen. or rather, it better not happen. the issue here is, some people commit crimes. some of them commit crimes because of their culture. some, because of their religion or lack thereof. some in the culture, don't commit crimes and some in their religion don't commit crimes. when we start incarcerating people for crimes they may do some day, that's when the whole planet will go to hell in a handbasket.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by SuicideBankers

 

i think the guys that are doing that, think it's okay, not because they are bad people, but because their social order got a screwed up version of the desirability of head coverings. it wasn't to punish the women. it wasn't to hide them from the men. it wasn't a free ticket to molest anyone who didn't have one, unless they are trying to say that they are the angels who the text warns about, in which case they're in a whole lot of trouble with the big guy (i don't think they are the angels referenced in the text. i mean, if they are, where's their nephilim offspring huh huh? yeah........)

edit on 9-7-2013 by undo because: (no reason given)

So you are telling me that they cant see or feel the pain and anguish they are causing as they force themselves on a victim?

Oh their society says its okay so somehow it must block any shred of decency in them.

Nope! not buying it. A good person doesn't hurt people intentionally. A religion, race, society whatever does not commit rape. An individual does.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by poet1b

 

not gonna happen. or rather, it better not happen. the issue here is, some people commit crimes. some of them commit crimes because of their culture. some, because of their religion or lack thereof. some in the culture, don't commit crimes and some in their religion don't commit crimes. when we start incarcerating people for crimes they may do some day, that's when the whole planet will go to hell in handbasket.

EEEEEEEEEEEK. I agree. What are we debating? lol

reply to post by undo


But we already are punishing people for crimes they did not commit. The whole safety crime and morality racket does just that.

And the punishment of people who have done no harm to others, is pushed almost exclusively by religion.

If you drive over the speed limit, it has been made into a crime, so you are guilty of committing a crime.

Well, if practicing religion is made into a crime, and you are caught practicing religion, then you will be guilty of committing a crime.

Being that religious beliefs are responsible for more atrocities against humanity then these safety and morality crimes,

Religion should be banned based on the same logic.

reply to post by SuicideBankers


The world already is going to hell in a hand basket,

most people just refuse to see it.

reply to post by SuicideBankers


i think the culture teaches them that if a woman doesn't follow the dress code, she should be punished, and one way to do that is to molest her. it's like being whipped by the guy's private part, apparently. in effect, any woman that doesn't follow the law, is treated like trash. it's their way of policing the area they live in. i'm not saying it's right, obviously. in fact, i think the reason they have the dress code in the first place, is all a misunderstanding that has resulted in some really horrible things.

about 2 years ago, i got a frantic knock on my front door. it was almost 3 in the morning. scared me. i opened the door to find a young female there, her hair dishevelled, one shoe in her hand, out of breath and intermittently crying and asking for help at the same time. i was like "what?? what's wrong???" she was only 17 and had been to a local bar, underage. she was wearing some skimply clothes. she attempted to get a ride home and the guy who offered her a ride, tried to molest her in his car. she hit him in the head with her shoe, opened the car door, while the car was moving and rolled out. then she took off running and started knocking on doors. no one would answer their door or they weren't home or couldn't hear the door.

anyway, lucky for her, i was up because i took care of my elderly mother who had alzheimers, and she had to have around the clock care. so i took the night shift. i had the girl come in and sit in the chair by the door, while i tried to figure out what to do. finally, i got her to agree to call the police. when they got to my house, they were not happy. in fact, the police officer commented that her attire was what got her into trouble and that it was essentially her fault. i was a bit shocked when he said that.

if it's okay to molest a person for wearing skimpy attire at a bar, is it also okay in swimming class? cheerleading practice? the beach? i mean, where do we draw the line here? i think sometimes people just get an idea in there heads about social norms, and it sticks like glue. and that, i think, is what's going on in this case we're discussing.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by SuicideBankers

 

The difference being that most cultures believe that rape is wrong, and punish the rapists for their actions, but many sectors of Islam teaches that women should cover themselves, and if they are out alone, unaccompanied by a male relative, and they get raped, it is their own fault, and then actually punish the women for getting raped.

Do you think this is fine and dandy?

Personally I don't care for the Catholic church because of the way the religion is so sexually repressive. Their priest take vows of chastity, and all too many wind up sexual perverts who rape children, and the church covers it up.

Islam is Catholicism on steroids.

I look at it this way.

If you drink and drive, supposedly it increases the chance that you might injure or kill someone, so if you are caught drinking and driving, you are severely punished even though you have done no harm to anyone.

It seems that if you are a Muslim male, it increases the chances that you might rape a woman, and or hurt or kill others due to religious beliefs, so maybe men who practice Islam should be treated like drivers who drink.

In fact, if you look at history, certain religions are responsible for most of the horrific atrocities committed against humanity.

Maybe the better answer would be to treat all those who practice these religions to be treated like drunk drivers.

I still think that humanity knows right from wrong and I will not lump people into categorys because its easy or convenient.

Let me put it this way. The world community doesn't have a very rosy outlook when it comes to Americans these days. Most view my society as a bunch of self-righteous war mongers. Am I a war monger? Absolutely not. I hate war and violence. I have protested, signed petitions, spoken out, and voted. I STILL DO. The government still acts without my consent. Should I be condemned because of the actions of other Americans?

reply to post by undo

the police officer commented that her attire was what got her into trouble and that it was essentially her fault. i was a bit shocked when he said that.

Since the thread is kinda going off topic, might as well comment on this.

Do You think someone should have self responsibility for their action?

Do you think, every human is created equally and brought up in a good environment with hardship or abuse?

Do you think anyone should be exempt for making themselves more target for others?


When Celebrities get criticize, why don't you speak for them? you see where i am going? they chose to get on the stage for the audience.

I think we are bringing up kids telling them, its never your fault for being seen as a more easy target.

If i walk in the dark alley in a bad neighborhood with jewellery and a wad of cash. What are the chances of me getting robbed? do i deserve it? in a perfect world.. nope... in our current reality? yep.

reply to post by undo


There is a huge difference.

Some seventeen year old asks a guy at a bar for a ride home, which is interpreted by most people as "come back to my house and we can fool around". The guy puts the move on her, she freaks out, jumps out his car, while moving, and starts knocking on strangers doors. This is pretty erratic behavior on the part of this 17 year old. I am still trying to figure out how a guy putting the move on a woman who asked him for a ride home from the bar, is molestation. I doubt the way she dressed would have made any difference. The guy was probably wearing beer goggles.

Compared to a group of guys grabbing a 12 year old off the street, and gang raping her.

How do you not see the difference?

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by SuicideBankers

 

i think the culture teaches them that if a woman doesn't follow the dress code, she should be punished, and one way to do that is to molest her. it's like being whipped by the guy's private part, apparently. in effect, any woman that doesn't follow the law, is treated like trash. it's their way of policing the area they live in. i'm not saying it's right, obviously. in fact, i think the reason they have the dress code in the first place, is all a misunderstanding that has resulted in some really horrible things.

about 2 years ago, i got a frantic knock on my front door. it was almost 3 in the morning. scared me. i opened the door to find a young female there, her hair dishevelled, one shoe in her hand, out of breath and intermittently crying and asking for help at the same time. i was like "what?? what's wrong???" she was only 17 and had been to a local bar, underage. she was wearing some skimply clothes. she attempted to get a ride home and the guy who offered her a ride, tried to molest her in his car. she hit him in the head with her shoe, opened the car door, while the car was moving and rolled out. then she took off running and started knocking on doors. no one would answer their door or they weren't home or couldn't hear the door.

anyway, lucky for her, i was up because i took care of my elderly mother who had alzheimers, and she had to have around the clock care. so i took the night shift. i had the girl come in and sit in the chair by the door, while i tried to figure out what to do. finally, i got her to agree to call the police. when they got to my house, they were not happy. in fact, the police officer commented that her attire was what got her into trouble and that it was essentially her fault. i was a bit shocked when he said that.

if it's okay to molest a person for wearing skimpy attire at a bar, is it also okay in swimming class? cheerleading practice? the beach? i mean, where do we draw the line here? i think sometimes people just get an idea in there heads about social norms, and it sticks like glue. and that, i think, is what's going on in this case we're discussing.

Its also wrong for a 17 year girl to be in a bar drinking let alone excepting ride from strangers. I am not saying she deserved it I am saying she put herself in that very dangerous situation. Before it comes let me say that what she was wearing had nothing to do with it. The girl in this case most certainly must take some responsibility for her action. The man had no right to touch her but she got in the car with the guy.