What if tens of thousands fled to your country. Yearly.

What if tens of thousands fled to your country. Yearly.

What if tens of thousands of people fled into your country yearly. Crossing a southern boarder, with the hope of a better life in a better country. What would you do.

Would you use the country just south of you to "detain" them? Have the leader of that country keep it all quiet so that your modern western civilization can go on shopping at the mall? Maybe occasionally pressure the leader to treat the refugees better, even sending tons of money.






I'm talking about Europe and Libya.





Let's look at a time line... here is 2008

Libya - Amnesty International Report [color=gold] 2008
Human Rights in SOCIALIST PEOPLE’S LIBYAN ARAB JAMAHIRIYA

Refugees, asylum-seekers and [color=gold] migrants continued to be ill-treated in detention, but the government failed to address the legacy of past gross human rights violations.

www.amnesty.org...

Then...

In the early days of what grew into the Libyan uprising, Muammar el-Qaddafi summoned European Union ministers to Tripoli and issued an ultimatum: Stop supporting the protesters, or I'll suspend cooperation on migration and [color=gold] Europe will be facing a human flood of from North Africa.

Harvard Belfer Center
Using Refugees as weapons
belfercenter.ksg.harvard.edu...

... And now ... this article is from today.

One of the first things he did upon his arrival on the Island of Lampedusa, Pope Francis laid a wreath in the waters in memory of the [color=gold] tens of thousands of migrants who have died trying to reach Europe in unsafe and overcrowded boats.

Vatican News
"To die of hope"
www.news.va...

So what seems to have been going on is that for decades Qaddafi was catching and "handling" swarms of refugees from Africa. People from Sub Saharan Africa no less. People who had walked across countries and entire deserts. And now that he is gone, no one is doing anything to stop them. Like the occasional swarms that Americans have seen from Cuba in the past, there is a non stop wave of people fleeing Africa, trying to cross the Mediterranean, for a better life in Europe.

/sarcasm
Never mind, Katy Perry lawsuit!
gotta go read up.
/end sarcasm


Mike

This happens everyday on the border of the US with Mexico, we don't just get the humanity, we get the added bonus of drugs and violence! We hunt them down, and send them back. Many die making the crossing, we do not try and make it easier. Many land owners, for whom this is a real problem and threat, would like the right to shoot them. That is what we do.

These are not my opinions, illigal immigration is a complex issue upon which I do not care to give my opinion, the OP said what if......

Can I imagine if the Mexican army started rounding up all migrants put them into camps. And then at the exact moment the American border was secure we start pressuring Mexico for their human rights abuses. Their mistreatment of migrants.

US: your a big meany head.

Mexico: The camps are only temporary.

.... wait ... where have I heard that before...?


Mike

reply to post by Iamschist


It's sad when a country made up of immigrants are so hostile to new immigrants.

As for the EU story, the only way to fix this is to end the protectionism in the west and instate real free markets. And cut the "development aid" to despots and dictators.

Originally posted by tyfon

As for the EU story, the only way to fix this is to end the protectionism in the west and [color=gold] instate real free markets. And cut the "development aid" to despots and dictators.

But I thought the developing world hated the west for its history of colonialism.
You remember, that old practice of forcibly setting up markets.
Or do I misunderstand the use of the word "instate"
in the quote above?


Mike

reply to post by mikegrouchy


Mass immigration is akin to using a cork to plug the huge gash on the side of the Titanic and expecting something good to come out of it. It doesn't. It only adds stress to the host nation and does very little good to the nation these people are running from.

Instead of spending billions of dollars (something Europe does) on mass immigration, we should spend money on making sure the government of that country conforms to human rights rulings and creating jobs and education for the people of those countries.

Because as it stands, we're doing more harm to everyone involved. Education and a safer homeland is the key. Not massive immigration.

reply to post by mikegrouchy


I mean that they really open up the markets so that developing countries can sell their product to us.
Today we have closed markets and give/loan them cash they use to buy stuff from us.
This is due to a million special interest groups all over US and the EU that don't want competition for their products.

The globalisation they are talking about is hogwash and just so they can use cheap labour in foreign countries.
Try to make wheat or something in Africa and then sell it to the US or EU. See how far you get

Originally posted by Auricom
reply to post by mikegrouchy

 

Mass immigration is akin to using a cork to plug the huge gash on the side of the Titanic and expecting something good to come out of it. It doesn't. It only adds stress to the host nation and does very little good to the nation these people are running from.

Instead of spending billions of dollars (something Europe does) on mass immigration, we should spend money on making sure the government of that country conforms to human rights rulings and creating jobs and education for the people of those countries.

Because as it stands, we're doing more harm to everyone involved. Education and a safer homeland is the key. Not massive immigration.

If I remember my time at university correctly the professors back in the 90's were saying that the best way to do that is to put Western style businesses in those countries. Which America did. With gusto. Many American corporations have moved their manufacturing to other countries.

Yet now Americans complain even louder. About jobs, and lost manufacturing infrastructure.


Mike

reply to post by Auricom



Education is also the key here.
With educated people they can not be tricked by religious and corrupt leaders, but instead forge a future for them selves. Until apathy sets in that is.

"Teach a man to fish" and all that. But it's very relevant to the situation in the world today.

Remember, most of the islamist terrorists can't even read the quran to verify what their corrupt leaders are telling them.

It's very easy to cause riots in uneducated and poor regions in the world.

Originally posted by tyfon
reply to post by mikegrouchy

 

I mean that they really open up the markets so that developing countries can sell their product to us.
Today we have closed markets and give/loan them cash they use to buy stuff from us.
This is due to a million special interest groups all over US and the EU that don't want competition for their products.

The globalisation they are talking about is hogwash and just so they can use cheap labour in foreign countries.
Try to make wheat or something in Africa and then sell it to the US or EU. See how far you get

Ah! I see. My bad.

Yes, I have some thoughts along these lines.

I think... well, I think the crux of the problem is that the developing world doesn't have access to our markets. In a physical sense. There is a lack of rail lines, good roads, and reliable shipping.

Even if a developing country produces something worth exporting, there is no way to get said product to the western markets where all the consumers are. The product would just pile up, or get stuck in the mud.

But if they could, more people would probably stay in their home countries.


Mike

Originally posted by Auricom
reply to post by mikegrouchy

 

Mass immigration is akin to using a cork to plug the huge gash on the side of the Titanic and expecting something good to come out of it. It doesn't. It only adds stress to the host nation and does very little good to the nation these people are running from.

Instead of spending billions of dollars (something Europe does) on mass immigration, we should spend money on making sure the government of that country conforms to human rights rulings and creating jobs and education for the people of those countries.

Because as it stands, we're doing more harm to everyone involved. Education and a safer homeland is the key. Not massive immigration.

You make an excellent point, however historically we respect a sovereign nations right to govern, unless we go to war over how they do it. Then we clean up the mess. How would you propose we 'fix' another countries government without war, and are you proposing a NWO . Cooperation would imho be a new order for sure.

reply to post by mikegrouchy

If I remember my time at university correctly the professors back in the 90's were saying that the best way to do that is to put Western style businesses in those countries. Which America did. With gusto. Many American corporations have moved their manufacturing to other countries. Yet now Americans complain even louder. About jobs, and lost manufacturing infrastructure.

I suppose we are going off topic here..... The reason this has not worked, is aside from salaries for the workers, which are low, little money stays in the country, the money goes to the company in the US.

Originally posted by Iamschist
reply to post by mikegrouchy

 

If I remember my time at university correctly the professors back in the 90's were saying that the best way to do that is to put Western style businesses in those countries. Which America did. With gusto. Many American corporations have moved their manufacturing to other countries. Yet now Americans complain even louder. About jobs, and lost manufacturing infrastructure.

I suppose we are going off topic here..... The reason this has not worked, is aside from salaries for the workers, which are low, [color=gold] little money stays in the country, the money goes to the company in the US.

Great point.
I had totally overlooked that.

I do find myself often wondering... "if they want us to be consumers, why do they refuse to pay us enough?"


Mike

With all these starving desperate people Its a shame we have so many claiming that contraception is evil.

And what is at the putrid foundation of the movements that claim contraception is evil? That's right, its religion!

news flash tens of thousands of immigrants did flood into the uk and still are so much so that even if you live in a small area you feel like a foreigner speaking english .in your own country .

gaddafi did warn the west this was going to happen and i wonder how much gold is left there and does the state still pay all the bills for the people like they used to .

two million foreign workers were in gaddafi's country they had a good standard of lie but do they show how good life is now .
:.

Originally posted by Wertdagf
With all these starving desperate people Its a shame we have so many claiming that contraception is evil.

And what is at the putrid foundation of the movements that claim contraception is evil? That's right, its religion!

So why don't you airlift condoms and carpet drop the developing world with them.

No one is stopping you.

/sarcasm
I mean obviously there is a ban on condom dispensers,
and that is the only reason those countries, that don't even have airports,
are creating so many migrants.
/end sarcasm


Mike

Originally posted by geobro
news flash tens of thousands of immigrants did flood into the uk and still are so much so that even if you live in a small area you feel like a foreigner speaking english .in your own country .

gaddafi did warn the west this was going to happen and i wonder how much gold is left there and does the state still pay all the bills for the people like they used to .

two million foreign workers were in gaddafi's country they had a good standard of lie but do they show how good life is now .
:

.

A number of the British members of ATS have given me the impression that they wouldn't mind the immigrants so much, if those immigrants had any intention of becoming British. Both in culture, and ambition. But the reports seem to indicate that there are hardened pockets of anti-British communities. And they are growing in size and ambition.


Mike

reply to post by mikegrouchy
the reports are not far off i hate to think 20 years down the line what the u.k is going to be like

Originally posted by mikegrouchy
.... wait ... where have I heard that before...?

In just about every thread where a person rants about the US while ignoring the facts...


As for Immigration the People of the US are in favor of it... So long as it is legal immigration...

Illegal immigration, in just about every country on the planet, is not welcomed by the people who had to work for what they had as opposed to immunity or asylum while the life gets handed to them.

It's an amusing idea that Qaddafi was like some benevolent one-man border control agency working on behalf of the EU who only reneged on this role when EU governments started supporting the rebels.

Come on....hundreds of thousands (not tens of thousands) of African immigrants are heading to Europe for the simple reason that they were invited to come!

This whole idea that mass immigration is this out-of-control Frankenstein monster that western governments are desperately trying to limit is just crook.

That may be the idea they wish to promulgate, but it's bollocks.

Western governments invited mass immigration, it's completely deliberate.