The McMinnville case revisited - The suspension thread is here

Originally posted by Mogget
Previous analysis of these photographs has indicated that this is strong evidence that the object is large, and at a considerable distance from the camera. There is also evidence of a slight "haze" around the object, which supports this conclusion.

edit on 10-7-2013 by Mogget because: (no reason given)

That mainly was the conclusion of Hartmann in 1967, but based only on a quick radiometric approach.

Our geometric and radiometric analysis shows that, at the contrary, the object appears to be at a close distance from the camera and relatively small.

The analysis can be read here

Extracts:

The 1st part shows how, using adapted interactive tools, one may prove that the explanation of a model hanging from a thread is by far the most probable one, in the absence of irrefutable proof. This study, however, did not uncover the presence of a thread in the pictures.

The 2nd part, written up after having integrated a specific and original detection tool into the IPACO software, uncovered the presence of a suspension thread in both pictures, which should put an end to the study of this case file.

It has therefore been established that all the measurements are strongly consistent with the explanation of a small model (ca. 0.5 ft) hanging from the power wire (ca. 3 ft below), with a swaying movement between both shots describing an angle of ca. 17°, away from the camera lens, in the vertical plane of the UFO’s sighting line.

I think the photos below from your report are pretty interesting. The overlay of the Trent and LIFE photos clearly show the lower wire dipping down from the weight of something in the original UFO photos. The spot of the wire bowing in both photos is above the location of the object below. The upper wire aligns with both photos. The lower wire aligns in both photos outside of the area of the UFO. I'd be interested in what the believers think of that.

Ectoplasm8
The overlay of the Trent and LIFE photos clearly show the lower wire dipping down from the weight of something in the original UFO photos.

I think it only looks like that. But it can be just uneven wire.

reply to post by Ectoplasm8

Here is my comparison of wires. Source of the photos - Bruce Maccabee's website (brumac.8k.com...). I put wires as parallel as possible and close one to another - to better see the difference. I think it's clearly visible that wires looks curved differently in different places. So I don't think it's the evidence that it's because something is hanging on them.

Wires above the object

Detail:

Full size:


Wires below the object

Detail:

Full size:

elevenaugust
This thread is a continuation of my previous one dedicated to this case: "The McMinnville case revisited - New analysis online.
...
- Vertical thread function for evidence of a suspension thread

This last one was successfully used on the MnMinnville photo for trying to detect if there was any suspension thread. The full methodology can be read here and the final McMinnville report can be downloaded here.

...

I did an enhancements of the photos in Photoshop (using Image -> Adjustments -> Curves...) and what I have found is that this is some kind of stain on the negative. In short - I think that your software correctly recognized suspicious pixels, but it is not a suspension thread. Here is my result:

Detail of enhanced Photo 1 (crops from the original size, no resizing)


Stain:

Stain and guides from your picture, overlayed one above another:


For comparison:

Detail of enhanced Photo 2 (crop from the original size, no resizing)

No gray pixels, no suspicious signs of possible wires:

Having come across an article (in Fortean Times) last year that appears to support the hanging model theory, I have to say that I find it unconvincing. The two power lines seem to be rather thin and show kinks at several places. Both however are hanging in catenary (the curve of a naturally suspended chain etc.) A hub cap, wing mirror, or engine shroud, being relatively heavy, would have drastically changed the curve of the wire from which the object was hung, making the two wires clearly different in form, and indicating without any doubt that something was being hung, and making obvious the point of suspension. Nor do I think that an object thrown into the air and snapped at 1/50 secs would appear so sharp and with no evidence of motion blur. My feeling is that the pictures are most likely genuine, although what the UFO is remains in doubt. I would favour an early experiment in field propulsion, either based on the Biefield-Brown effect or one of the devices of Nazi provenance acquired after the war.

I've always been intrigued by the trents photos. Specifically of how the negatives disappeared after they lent it to life magazine.

a reply to: clt1994

Yes. Mind you, the Trents were fairly casual in how they handled the negatives, reportedly allowing a small child to play with them at one point.

If I had faked pictures like that I would have made sure that any suspicious wires supportiing the model would have been totally out of shot, and removed afterwards.

originally posted by: CarlGrove
If I had faked pictures like that I would have made sure that any suspicious wires supportiing the model would have been totally out of shot, and removed afterwards.

Researchers who talked to the Trents were generally very kind in noting that one of the best arguments about the photos being legitimate was that the Trents themselves were not all that bright to begin with.

a reply to: CarlGrove

fair enough. But still, for the negatives to disappear that long, it begs the question if they were faked... Why did the government have them for such a lengthy period of time?

It makes you wonder if someone was debating to either destroy the pictures,trying protect them or simply passing them on to the next person for further analysis....

I'm sure they would have found very quickly that the negatives indeed were hoaxed, and the photo would have been released to the trents much sooner.

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: CarlGrove
If I had faked pictures like that I would have made sure that any suspicious wires supportiing the model would have been totally out of shot, and removed afterwards.

Researchers who talked to the Trents were generally very kind in noting that one of the best arguments about the photos being legitimate was that the Trents themselves were not all that bright to begin with.

Good point. Were the Trents even mentally capable of planning and pulling off such a hoax?

originally posted by: clt1994

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: CarlGrove
If I had faked pictures like that I would have made sure that any suspicious wires supportiing the model would have been totally out of shot, and removed afterwards.

Researchers who talked to the Trents were generally very kind in noting that one of the best arguments about the photos being legitimate was that the Trents themselves were not all that bright to begin with.

Good point. Were the Trents even mentally capable of planning and pulling off such a hoax?

Ahhh...the classic "they were too stupid" argument. Gosh dangit! All those fancy drawings and whatnot were all fer nutten.

a reply to: clt1994

Good point. Were the Trents even mentally capable of planning and pulling off such a hoax?

The existence of the pictures says yes.

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian

originally posted by: clt1994

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: CarlGrove
If I had faked pictures like that I would have made sure that any suspicious wires supportiing the model would have been totally out of shot, and removed afterwards.

Researchers who talked to the Trents were generally very kind in noting that one of the best arguments about the photos being legitimate was that the Trents themselves were not all that bright to begin with.

Good point. Were the Trents even mentally capable of planning and pulling off such a hoax?

Ahhh...the classic "they were too stupid" argument. Gosh dangit! All those fancy drawings and whatnot were all fer nutten.

That was so funny.. Perhaps it's time for you to be a comedian, rather than wasting time here.

We'd also need to take motivation into account. What really do the trents have to gain from hoaxing the photo? They certainly didn't die with tons of riches....

a reply to: gortex

If thats true, then the wire theory would have to be proven. Brad sparks from what I understand has proven that the IPACO "debunking" was done incorrectly, so therefore your comment is debatable.

www.nicap.org...

I'd like to see Dr Bruce Maccabee once again look at the photos and prove with modern technology, they are real.

a reply to: clt1994

My comment comes after starting a thread linked by the OP of this thread , I started the thread as a believer that the pictures were strong evidence for saucers and were genuine , the work conducted by ATS members in that thread left me to conclude the pictures are a hoax and are of a pot lid suspended from the wires.

Not the outcome I was looking for.

a reply to: gortex
Understandable. I suggest taking a look at the Nicap link, because now more questions remain, considering the investigation done by the fellow members here at ATS (and IPACO), indeed has been shown to have produced incorrect data, thus a faulty conclusion drawn.

What was claimed, is that the photo was of the mirror that was missing off the photographers truck...its a hoax

a reply to: SPECULUM

i want proof first.

originally posted by: gortex
The existence of the pictures says yes.

Anybody can get lucky. And there's a hallowed old tradition among rural folk of making fools of the city slickers.

originally posted by: clt1994
a reply to: SPECULUM

i want proof first.

heres the truck from where the mirror came of trents

Heres a ford mirror