Janet Terminal parking expanded

N36 5 30.98 w115 9 59.55
Not terribly exciting, but I noticed they converted two rows of parking at the Janet terminal from straight to diagonal. This is evident on the 2012 image, but not 2011. Obviously this is done to squeeze in a few more cars, but with Area 51 moved to Utah and all, you would think they already have enough parking.
(Warning: the above paragraph may contain a bit of sarcasm)

I noticed there is more construction going on in the area. The "airlift" terminal is certainly getting boxed in, but I've never seen a photograph where the lot looked like it was near capacity.

reply to post by gariac


I'ts always a pain in the butt trying to get a pickup into a narrow straight spot.
The angled spots are better.
I was always having to park at the end of the lot.
I'd be sweating before I got to the other end.

reply to post by badgerprints


I remember when I got my driver's license.

I kid, I kid.

Good to see people are paying such close attention.

Originally posted by badgerprints
reply to post by gariac

 

I'ts always a pain in the butt trying to get a pickup into a narrow straight spot.
The angled spots are better.
I was always having to park at the end of the lot.
I'd be sweating before I got to the other end.

edit on 6-7-2013 by badgerprints because: (no reason given)

So are you implying that you work at area 51?

Originally posted by 2getherwestand

Originally posted by badgerprints
reply to post by gariac

 

I'ts always a pain in the butt trying to get a pickup into a narrow straight spot.
The angled spots are better.
I was always having to park at the end of the lot.
I'd be sweating before I got to the other end.

edit on 6-7-2013 by badgerprints because: (no reason given)

So are you implying that you work at area 51?

Of course not.
The place doesn't exist.

It is interesting to know that they are still hiring though.

reply to post by 2getherwestand

So are you implying that you work at area 51?

We had a member who worked out in a secret base in the Caribbean if memory serves correct. They were pretty clear about not being able to disseminate any information beyond what was legally allowable. But I remember their knowledge of procedure and certain aspects gave me the impression they were probably truthful.

You have two options:

1. All the outrageous myth around secret bases is spot on, etc.

or

2. Everything about Aliens, underwater space ships, etc, has all been a ruse to cover-up secret war projects and to send people looking in the wrong direction, misinform the enemy, etc.


I would think people in those installations would have a kick on message boards like this. Not saying there person here works there, but just pointing it out that it's quite possible members on the forum may be taking Janet flights in the morning. Unless there's a rule about it, but I haven't heard any.

reply to post by boncho


It would be inactively encouraged. In so long as people remained within protocol at all times.
It serves their triple-sided posturing on the entire subject.

In regards to the Naval Base, I would ask, "what the hell is the damn point in creating craft that are so exotic, so out there that you can NEVER USE THEM for fear of being discovered?"

It makes no sense.

If such craft exist (such as a super-sonic submersible) they either aren't funding it well enough to replace the fleet and take over the entire world, or it isn't really theirs, despite what they would have you believe with their triple ruse.

Just my .02

reply to post by JayinAR


It's pretty hard to wrap your head around the whole, reverse engineering-spacesips to make toasters angle. Essentially, if we have this great unlimited knowledge in secret from crashed UFOs etc, why are we doing so many useless things in industry now in the World.

Many people on the forum push the idea that we have free energy, secret intergalactic spaceships, secret treaties with aliens, secret off-world space programs, etc, etc, etc.

It's hard to fit them into reality when you look at what's actually going on though. The other problem, is the more out-there the theories get, the less sense they make, or the less they fit together.

IE

The leaders and elites are all flying to Denver because an asteroid is going to hit and wipe out the world's population.

Doesn't mix with,

the elites have secret spaceships that go to other worlds.

Why are they hiding in an airport if they can take a cruise to Alpha Centuri.




I'd love it as much is the next guy if Aliens were shown to exist, visiting the Earth, etc. However, there always seems to be a terrestrial explanation to nearly every case, and/or there isn't enough information at all to make a final opinion.

In any case, it's cool that some of the guys who these myths circle around visit (if they do), I bet they have a good laugh on their lunch breaks.

Very interesting the panoramic view of Janet terminal at McCarran, lately I have seen that there are a lot of Beechcraft "Bonanza" and "King Air" twin-turboprop aircrafts, at least that is what I have seen during these last days. I remember that the Janets when approaching to Nevada Test Site tend to warn by radio to Janets telling them: "Don't fly over DAFF".

This doctrine also applies to the beechcrafts? That is, this warn are told to the Janet's when there are NTS Tours and they have to take an alternate route, and this would be the same with the Beechcrafts?

I found this photograph very interesting, anyone knows where is this place? well the plane is a beechcraft, one of these aircraft has created great controversy, since no one knows exactly how many scheduled flights go to Groom and TTR.

vectors.usc.edu...

reply to post by rayktheon

Very interesting the panoramic view of Janet terminal at McCarran, lately I have seen that there are a lot of Beechcraft "Bonanza" and "King Air" twin-turboprop aircrafts, at least that is what I have seen during these last days. I remember that the Janets when approaching to Nevada Test Site tend to warn by radio to Janets telling them: "Don't fly over DAFF". This doctrine also applies to the beechcrafts? That is, this warn are told to the Janet's when there are NTS Tours and they have to take an alternate route, and this would be the same with the Beechcrafts?

The DAFF is a visual marker for the flight, but nobody is supposed to fly over it. I assume that means any aircraft. The DAFF itself is like a prison. Towers (guarded?) and a double wall security fence. I'm sure they want all paths to it secure.

I have no way of knowing if there are more small aircraft at KLAS, but I would surely pick a different airport if I had a light aircraft. Henderson for instance. McCarran is a zoo. You'll note the Lockheed shuttles use Henderson or North Las Vegas.

Regarding NTS tours or visitors, I can say when I was on the NTS, I never saw a Janet. [I've lots track, but I think I did 4 tours.] So they do avoid overflights when large crowds of visitors are on the NTS. But at any one time, there are probably a fair number of people without any clearance on the NTS. Truckers can drive the NTS. They drive right to gate 700 for Groom Lake deliveries. The spill center is not used by the DOE. Note all visitors are badged.

Groom Lake has two interesting arrivals. One is "Keyhole", of which there are a variations, and the other "Media Day." Possibly one of these arrivals is related to tours.

reply to post by rayktheon


As far as I know, Trevor has only photographed the Beech Janets at McCarran. He has a write up in one of his books about getting a room at the Tropicana. We can all thank Glenn Campbell for that, since he stated exactly how to do this. You ask for the Island tower, a room facing the airport, and as high as possible. The desk doesn't even bother to ask why. They know all about snooping on the Janet terminal from the Island tower. In fact, they have cameras set up so that people just don't take the elevator to a high floor and set up an observation post in the hallway.

Hanging out in the Trop and photographing the Janets is a "rite of passage" for base investigators. One of those Area 51 specials actually bothered to film the "crew" doing this.

As they do new construction around the Janet terminal, it is getting harder to photograph it. I don't believe you can see the entry door anymore:



The fence has a screening cloth that makes it hard to see into the parking lot. This kind of shot would be difficult:



At one point, there was talk of tearing down the Tropicana. That was prior to the economic crash of 2007.

Most of the Beech flights are VFR, so they do not show up on internet tracking. I have managed to photograph the Beech at Palmdale and the Nut Tree (Vacaville) airport. I watched one land at North Base.

Looking closely the Nevada Test Site maps, I noticed that there is no evidence of any landing strip around DAFF, so I guess that workers have to go to the facility shall be transported in vehicles or in any DOE bus service, I'm not sure, but I have understood that there are two buses, one for USAF and other small crap bus for Sandia Corporation. Is interesting since it DAFF is in charge of the Department of Energy, along with two laboratories to carry out research and development in nuclear components.

Since these three corporate entities are civilians, is probably that they use a Sandia Corporation bus or the DOE carry out the bus service to transport the workers to DAFF. Now here's the interesting thing, workers fly to the Nevada Test Site (either on a Janet plane plane or Beechcraft) and once there they are transported in vehicles to DAFF via Mercury highway? Anyway, the only runway that I see nearest to DAFF is the Yucca Flat airstrip.

Since is not allowing aircrafts fly over DAFF, not if I'm right, probably they landing at Yucca Airstrip, but also crossed my head the Desert Rock Airstrip in the closed city of Mercury, although I suppose this airfield is for NTS operative staff that is in the town of Mercury. Although it would be absurd, well it depends first of all wherever they want to go, from Desert Rock Airstrip to DAFF in fact they have to go a good distance across the Mercury road to get there, however the Yucca Flat Airstrip is more handy. Anyhow, it is likely that workers also located in Mercury traveling to DAFF

reply to post by rayktheon

Looking closely the Nevada Test Site maps, I noticed that there is no evidence of any landing strip around DAFF, so I guess that workers have to go to the facility shall be transported in vehicles or in any DOE bus service, I'm not sure, but I have understood that there are two buses, one for USAF and other small crap bus for Sandia Corporation.

You are confusing the NTS with the TTR. The TTR is a jointly run by the USAF and the DOE, though I'm pretty sure the USAF is running the show. It is possible to watch the TTR for extended periods of time, which is how I discovered they were running two different buses.

When the last 4 F117as were landing at the TTR (supposed the last time they would be flown), we were visited by USAF and DOE security. The USAF security was grumpy, walked around like he owned the place, and jotted down all the license plates. The DOE security was nice, talked to use, and got our plates and names. Perhaps they played good cop / bad cop, but I think they acted independently. That is, I think the USAF and the DOE interface as little as possible at the TTR, and if the USAF had their way, the DOE would be sent away.

I have no idea how much activity there is at the DAFF. You cannot monitor the NTS easily. It is nearly as hard to view as Groom Lake, though of course you can tour the NTS while my invitation to Groom Lake hasn't shown up in the mail yet.

Is interesting since it DAFF is in charge of the Department of Energy, along with two laboratories to carry out research and development in nuclear components. Since these three corporate entities are civilians, is probably that they use a Sandia Corporation bus or the DOE carry out the bus service to transport the workers to DAFF.

I would say the DOE runs the DAFF. Sandia is a quasi-government organization. They are run via a civilian contract, currently held by Lockheed. But every DOE facility I have researched always has a Sandia facility nearby. Sandia can patent what they develop, much like any other private enterprise.

Now here's the interesting thing, workers fly to the Nevada Test Site (either on a Janet plane plane or Beechcraft) and once there they are transported in vehicles to DAFF via Mercury highway? Anyway, the only runway that I see nearest to DAFF is the Yucca Flat airstrip. Since is not allowing aircrafts fly over DAFF, not if I'm right, probably they landing at Yucca Airstrip, but also crossed my head the Desert Rock Airstrip in the closed city of Mercury, although I suppose this airfield is for NTS operative staff that is in the town of Mercury. Although it would be absurd, well it depends first of all wherever they want to go, from Desert Rock Airstrip to DAFF in fact they have to go a good distance across the Mercury road to get there, however the Yucca Flat Airstrip is more handy. Anyhow, it is likely that workers also located in Mercury traveling to DAFF

The DAFF is just a visual marker for the Janets. It is easy to indentify and is lighted. [Even though the 737 Janets file as IFR, they nearly always fly VFR in practice once over the restricted airspace. It is rare to hear an instrument landing at Groom.] But the USAF flights have nothing to do with the DAFF or NTS. They just fly over the NTS on their way to Groom Lake. It could be as simple as the NTS is a place where there are no fast movers, so Groom uses the NTS as much as possible to make it easy for the Janets to fly to/from Groom.

The AOF at Yucca is another story. It does appear a Janet Beech has landed there, based on Google Earth historical data. And of course they fly UAVs at the facility. The AOF is controlled from Desert Rock. There is no tower at the AOF. Now Desert Rock can't see the AOF, so how well they control the flights is another story. But if you monitor 126.15, it is pretty clear DRA runs the AOF. The Janets nearly always file VFR, so it is not known what flight path they use to get to the AOF, plus Wichman (NVH11) doesn't really exist in FAA documents. They would probably file to NV11.

¿What do you want to say when DAFF facilities are used like "visual marker" for Janet planes and Beechcraft jets? Its mean basically when Janet and beechcraft pilots fly around the NTS and they are approaching to DAFF, the tower control calls to the pilots and communicates to them: "Don't Fly Over DAFF", well I suppose with this thatDaffy is a landmark for pilots when they are making a flight and when they have to fly over the NTS to go towards Groom or TTR.

Well, I find a bit convoluted, but this case could also be applied to the NTS? That is, they only use this "visual marker" for DAFF? Groom also is a highly secret detachment and their flights start and end at continuously, much more than Daffy. What I mean, is if that DAFF "visual marker", the Janet Pilots have another reference point for other facilities, such as: "Don't Fly over NTS" or "Don't Fly Over BaseCamp". I have no idea what is the ICAO-FAA code for BaseCamp.

reply to post by rayktheon

¿What do you want to say when DAFF facilities are used like "visual marker" for Janet planes and Beechcraft jets? Its mean basically when Janet and beechcraft pilots fly around the NTS and they are approaching to DAFF, the tower control calls to the pilots and communicates to them: "Don't Fly Over DAFF", well I suppose with this thatDaffy is a landmark for pilots when they are making a flight and when they have to fly over the NTS to go towards Groom or TTR.

Under VFR (visual flight rules), you need something to see. Hence the pilots use landmarks. The DAFF is an easy to spot building. Air Traffic Control tells them not to fly over the DAFF because the the NTS doesn't want flight over the DAFF. It is part of the procedure. The pilot already knows not to fly over the DAFF because he heard it a thousand times before. That doesn't matter. These people do it by the book.

Well, I find a bit convoluted, but this case could also be applied to the NTS? That is, they only use this "visual marker" for DAFF?

There isn't all that much flying around the NTS by the NTS itseld. The helicopter patrol is no longer used. In fact, the AOF is where the NTS helicopter flights were staged. Most flights are to Desert Rock Airstrip, which would not require using the DAFF. There are probably helicopter flights around the NTS, and we know they routinely photograph the NTS from the air.

You are making too much of the DAFF. As far as flight is concerned, it is simply an easy to spot location. It has a double wall fence and security towers. It is well lit. Some pilot determined it is a good visual reference. The NTS said fine, just don't fly over it.

Groom also is a highly secret detachment and their flights start and end at continuously, much more than Daffy. What I mean, is if that DAFF "visual marker", the Janet Pilots have another reference point for other facilities, such as: "Don't Fly over NTS" or "Don't Fly Over BaseCamp". I have no idea what is the ICAO-FAA code for BaseCamp.

The pilots probably have other visual markers to get them to the base. Remember, the Janets are flying IFR all the time. The Beech fly VFR most of the time.

My guess is the 737 pilots fly a combination of IFR and VFR, or they use the GPS. They are certainly flying IFR leaving McCarran. But once you get to the NTTR, the range isn't exactly set up for IFR. Groom Lake has a VOR, localizer and glideslope (one direction only), but the flight path used by the 737s is such that Papoose Mountain blocks all the navigation aids until you are in the valley where Groom Lake is located. They can use the BTY VOR for some of the travel, but it is poorly located. The area is full of small mountain ranges that block snoopers (good for the base) and navigation aids (bad for the base).

I think if conditions were such that visibility was poor and they had to land, the 737s would not enter over the NTS. They would fly over the range much further to the south and juse the VOR at Groom Lake. The only reason they use this complicated routing is the NTTR is an active training range. A more direct route would interfere with Nellis training. The majority of live fire ranges are on the west side of the NTTR. The 737s are snaking their way through areas not used by fighter aircraft. They do have to avoid the UAVs are the AOF.

Regarding Base Camp, there is no ICAO code. Those runways have Xs on them, so they are not suitable for landing. ;-) The VOR, when it is turned on, used the code AEC, presumably due to the legacy of the Atomic Engery Commission.

The NDB has been removed from Base Camp. Once I started posting audio from the various NDBs on the range, they soon turned them off. However, that could be a coincidence since NDBs are not the best nav aids. Further, they could be heard for hundreds of miles at night. Certainly not the best thing for a secret base in the Nevada desert.

As for the Yucca Lake airfield NV11, so we know is owned by the Department of Energy, is a facility where only test and experiment with UAVs or they performed more operations? I suppose there will be several contractors using Yucca airfield, Lockheed Martin seems to be one of them, Pilatus PC-12 and beechcraft was seen on the runways, so I guess that apart Lockheed, there are contractors to touch a sore spot on Yucca.

Originally posted by rayktheon
As for the Yucca Lake airfield NV11, so we know is owned by the Department of Energy, is a facility where only test and experiment with UAVs or they performed more operations? I suppose there will be several contractors using Yucca airfield, Lockheed Martin seems to be one of them, Pilatus PC-12 and beechcraft was seen on the runways, so I guess that apart Lockheed, there are contractors to touch a sore spot on Yucca.

NV11 is not the runway used by the UAVs. That is the runway used by the spill facility on the NTS. It is a dirt runway, but a dry lake is better than your average dirt runway. The UAVs use NVH11, an unofficial designation for the new runway.

Those wankers at flightglobal have written about the new runway, of course years after everyone else knew about it. And of course flightglobal doesn't acknowledge this.

flightglobal's motto: better late than never

Contractors at the new Yucca airstrip

old NTS data from the FLIP

Nellis range designations from the Honeywell database

"a collection of AOF documents"

Some operation at area 51 have been moved to Fantasy Island (San Nicolas)

This makes it so that some of the top secret aircraft no longer have to cross the coast and leave the Mysterious double sonic booms or be spotted.

There are now larger numbers of Janet flights going to Fantasy Island test area

Originally posted by ANNED
Some operation at area 51 have been moved to Fantasy Island (San Nicolas)

This makes it so that some of the top secret aircraft no longer have to cross the coast and leave the Mysterious double sonic booms or be spotted.

There are now larger numbers of Janet flights going to Fantasy Island test area

They have run the occasional Beech janet to the Channel Islands, but the rest of your post is fiction. The Channel Islands are not off limits except when they are going to land a missile on one. There are plenty of divers out by San Nic. The island is flown over routinely by commercial air traffic.

But I'm willing to review any hard evidence you have of Groom Lake projects now moved to San Nic.