Late Pope John Paul II to get sainthood, Vatican says

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
He said some of the right things.

Hell is FULL of so called "believers" who said the right things.

There are two kinds of people in the world – sayers and doers.

God is looking for the "doer".

God told Howard Pittman during his NDE that not all the sayers would be in heaven, but all the doers would be.

"Then the Lord took me to a place where there was a very well-known man. Before now, I used to live as an ignorant young christian. I used to think that any person that died would go to Heaven; that those who celebrated mass would also go to heaven, but I was wrong. When Pope John Paul II died, my friends and relatives would tell me that he had gone to heaven. All the news on TV and other media would say: “Pope John Paul II has died, may his soul rest in peace. He is now rejoicing with the Lord and his angels in heaven” and I believed all of it.

But I was only fooling myself, because I saw him in Hell, being tormented by flames. I looked at his face and recognized him. The Lord said to me, “Look, daughter, that man that you see there, is Pope John Paul II. He is here in this place being tormented because he did not repent.”

But I asked, “Lord, why is he here? He used to preach at church.” Jesus replied: “Daughter, no fornicator, no idolater, no one who is greedy and no liar will inherit My Kingdom.” (Ephesians 5:5). I replied, “Yes, I know that is true, but I would like to know why he is here, because he used to preach to multitudes of people!”

And Jesus responded, “Yes, daughter, he may have said many things, but he would never speak the truth as it is. He never said the truth. Although he knew the truth, he preferred money over preaching about salvation. He never told the truth; he would not say that hell is real and that heaven also exists. Daughter, now he is here in this place.”

Pope John Paul II in Hell

YouTube - Pope John Paul II is in Hell

reply to post by Murgatroid

God told Howard Pittman during his NDE that not all the sayers would be in heaven, but all the doers would be.

If Howard Pittman had his NDE in 1979, why would he have been told that someone who wasn't even Pope yet was in hell?

It is presumptuous to claim that anyone specifically is in hell, because it is God who judges, not us. We can, however, ascertain that people, including, apparently, Pope John Paul II, are in heaven, because of miracles done in their name.

The other options are a) the devil did it, but I don't believe that the devil can or would perform positive miracles or b) God did it to deceive everyone, which seems even more unlikely.

You don't have to think him a saint, you don't even have to like him, but you shouldn't condemn him to hell, because you are not God, and you know what Christ said about "judge not".

reply to post by anniquity


I just love how the catholic church has the authority to declare who will be considered a saint. They have a saint for everything and than feel it's ok to pray to them. The first commandment clearly states...

You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.

SOURCE

Praying to saints sounds like it's a conflict with the first commandment. I'm sure a lot of christian religions follow the 10 commandments. Pope John Paul was just as human as everyone else. He put his pants on one leg at a time just like everyone else. If you're not in the public eye and you're just a nobody, but you lived your life helping people, sorry you're out of luck to become a saint.

If John Paul's a Saint, then I'm the Virgin Mary. Speaking of virgins and John Paul....

Originally posted by WeRpeons
reply to post by anniquity

 

I just love how the catholic church has the authority to declare who will be considered a saint.

Of course they can -- the notion of saints, as expressed by the Catholic church, is a Catholic concept.

It's not binding on anyone who doesn't believe in saints.

Praying to saints sounds like it's a conflict with the first commandment.

No, intercessory prayers are different than prayers to God. Basically, you're asking Mary or some other saint to pray for you, just like you might ask a friend or your pastor to pray for you.

That's all it is. No one is worshipping the saints.

No, intercessory prayers are different than prayers to God. Basically, you're asking Mary or some other saint to pray for you, just like you might ask a friend or your pastor to pray for you. That's all it is. No one is worshipping the saints.

reply to post by adjensen


I know many catholic's who pray directly to saints for various things. I was once a practicing catholic and alter boy! They're not asking to pray for them but asking them to help them with various things in life. That's praying to them.

Here is just a sample of saints and what their duties are in a list that goes on and on...

Saint Cajetan - Patron saint of Good Fortune

Saint Agathius - Patron saint for headaches

Saint Francis of Assisi - Patron saint for animals

Saint Jude - Patron saint for Lost Causes

Saint Anthony - Patron saint of lost things. Here is a typical prayer "to" Saint Anthony.

Unfailing Prayer to Saint Anthony Blessed be God in His Angels and in His Saints. O Holy St. Anthony, gentlest of Saints, your love for God and Charity for His creatures made you worthy, when on earth, to possess miraculous powers. Miracles waited on your word, which you were ever ready to speak for those in trouble or anxiety. Encouraged by this thought, I implore of you to obtain for me (request). The answer to my prayer may require a miracle. Even so, you are the saint of Miracles. O gentle and loving St. Anthony, whose heart was ever full of human sympathy, whisper my petition into the ears of the Sweet Infant Jesus, who loved to be folded in your arms, and the gratitude of my heart will ever be yours.

source

The catholic religion has a HUGE list of saints who are in charge of helping you with anything you can possibly think of! This is a perfect example of how ridiculous religions can be. Here's the list from A to Z. It reads like a list of God's in mythology.

List of Saints and their duties

Only people with any common sense would realize this is a fable created by man, not God himself.
This is just as ridiculous as the 71 virgins Muslims believe in.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by TopsyTurvyOne
bs. how many catholics would worship him if they knew he was a fraud?

The same number that would worship him without your supposed fraud -- zero.

Catholics do not worship saints.

edit on 5-7-2013 by adjensen because: (no reason given)

so what do they do with saints? respect them? admire them? ignore them?
give money to them?



you talk as if being made a saint ain't no big deal. that man PJP2 was deemed infallible
and he is now a proven fraud who faked/staged his own assassination attempt only to
claim that mary mother of jesus intervened by diverting an otherwise 'lethal'
bullet a few millimetres to spare his life.

BS piled on top of more BS.

Originally posted by Murgatroid

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
He said some of the right things.

Hell is FULL of so called "believers" who said the right things.

There are two kinds of people in the world – sayers and doers.

God is looking for the "doer".

God told Howard Pittman during his NDE that not all the sayers would be in heaven, but all the doers would be.

"Then the Lord took me to a place where there was a very well-known man. Before now, I used to live as an ignorant young christian. I used to think that any person that died would go to Heaven; that those who celebrated mass would also go to heaven, but I was wrong. When Pope John Paul II died, my friends and relatives would tell me that he had gone to heaven. All the news on TV and other media would say: “Pope John Paul II has died, may his soul rest in peace. He is now rejoicing with the Lord and his angels in heaven” and I believed all of it.

But I was only fooling myself, because I saw him in Hell, being tormented by flames. I looked at his face and recognized him. The Lord said to me, “Look, daughter, that man that you see there, is Pope John Paul II. He is here in this place being tormented because he did not repent.”

But I asked, “Lord, why is he here? He used to preach at church.” Jesus replied: “Daughter, no fornicator, no idolater, no one who is greedy and no liar will inherit My Kingdom.” (Ephesians 5:5). I replied, “Yes, I know that is true, but I would like to know why he is here, because he used to preach to multitudes of people!”

And Jesus responded, “Yes, daughter, he may have said many things, but he would never speak the truth as it is. He never said the truth. Although he knew the truth, he preferred money over preaching about salvation. He never told the truth; he would not say that hell is real and that heaven also exists. Daughter, now he is here in this place.”

Pope John Paul II in Hell

YouTube - Pope John Paul II is in Hell

do you think faking/staging his own assassination attempt and further claiming that
jesus's mother mary intervened to deflect an otherwise lethal bullet was a contributory
factor in the decision to send him to hell? (rhetorical Q.)

i don't like the thought of burning for eternity as a punishment though.
may all who sin find truth and understanding.
and forgiveness.

Originally posted by WeRpeons

No, intercessory prayers are different than prayers to God. Basically, you're asking Mary or some other saint to pray for you, just like you might ask a friend or your pastor to pray for you. That's all it is. No one is worshipping the saints.

reply to post by adjensen

 

I know many catholic's who pray directly to saints for various things. I was once a practicing catholic and alter boy! They're not asking to pray for them but asking them to help them with various things in life. That's praying to them.

Yes, as I said, that's an intercessory prayer. They are praying to the saint and asking them to pray for them.

Look at the end of the "Hail Mary":

"Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our deaths." -- it doesn't say "save me, Mary", it says "pray for me, Mary".

The woman who was cured of Parkinson's after praying to John Paul didn't say "cure me of my Parkinson's, John Paul", she said "pray for me, John Paul."

I thought he was one miracle short of sainthood.

Did they dig up a long lost miracle or something?

Originally posted by bg_socalif
I thought he was one miracle short of sainthood.

Did they dig up a long lost miracle or something?

From the article listed in the OP:

The second miracle reportedly occurred in Costa Rica, where a woman said she recovered from a severe brain injury thanks to the intervention of John Paul, sources told CNN Vatican analyst John Allen.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by TopsyTurvyOne
bs. how many catholics would worship him if they knew he was a fraud?

The same number that would worship him without your supposed fraud -- zero.

Catholics do not worship saints.

edit on 5-7-2013 by adjensen because: (no reason given)

I'd say praying to saints is a form of worship. Keeping the likeness of saints, popes, and Mary in houses, on medallions, and praying to statues is a form of idolitry.

"And they served their idols: which were a snare unto them." —Psalm 106:36

“For they served idols, whereof the LORD had said unto them, Ye shall not do this thing.”2nd Kings 17:12

Praying to Mary is a sin.

“The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the QUEEN OF HEAVEN...that they may provoke me to anger” —Jeremiah 7:18

"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:" —Exodus 20:4

"Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them..." —Exodus 20:5

Read your bibles and you will find the practices of the RCC is a pegan cult. Many of their practices are not even biblical. Come out of the RCC bothers and sisters and be saved with the blood of Jesus, for He is the ONLY way to the Father.

Originally posted by Siberbat
I'd say praying to saints is a form of worship.

Well, that's nice for you, but as you are not Catholic, your opinion doesn't really matter.

Keeping the likeness of saints, popes, and Mary in houses, on medallions, and praying to statues is a form of idolitry.

An idol, as professed in the Bible, is a man-made image of a god. No one believes that Mary, the Pope or any saint are gods, so your conclusion is invalid.

Catholics do not worship the saints, they venerate them. This may be helpful: Veneration

reply to post by adjensen


Do Catholics not pray to saints? Do they not pray to Mary? When you fold your hands and bow on your knees to pray to images (see Exodus 20:4) that is worship by any other name. Those are the things which God is clear that is for Him and Him alone.

I don't mean to be harsh, but use the Bible as the measure and not the catechism. I used to be catholic, prayed the rosery, prayed for intervent though Mary, and prayed to the saints for help, but throught the Holy Spirit, repentance, and the 1611 KJV Bible, I saw how the Roman system was sending people to Hell. It is true that ex-catholics are a lot tougher on practiceing catholics than other people. I do ernestly want to bring people away from this system and to Christ. Saints were just men...sinners and Mary was just a woman...a sinner. Don't let man's tradition keep people away from eternal life.

I'll just leave this here. Warning, lot's of profanity in the video so don't click the link if you're sensitive.

youtu.be...

reply to post by adjensen

Well, that's nice for you, but as you are not Catholic, your opinion doesn't really matter.

How about Jesus' opinion?

Does His opinion not matter because He isn't a Catholic as well?

"But then He (Jesus) told me, "Daughter, she is Mary. Mary, who gave birth to Jesus Christ, Who I am. Daughter, I want to tell you that she has no knowledge of the things happening on Earth. I want to tell you that you must go and tell humanity, tell idol worshippers that hell is real, and that idolaters will not inherit My kingdom, but go and tell them that if they repent, they can enter My heavenly dwelling place.

Go tell them that I love them and tell them that Mary has no knowledge of anything [happening on Earth] and the only One that they must exalt is Me, because neither Mary, nor St. Gregory nor any other saint can offer salvation. I am the only One who saves and outside of Me – nobody, nobody, nobody- saves!" He repeated it three times - that nobody could save; only He saves.

Pope John Paul II in Hell

Originally posted by Murgatroid
reply to post by adjensen

 

Well, that's nice for you, but as you are not Catholic, your opinion doesn't really matter.

How about Jesus' opinion?

Does His opinion not matter because He isn't a Catholic as well?

Where is Jesus' opinion in any of that?

I see someone's unverified claim that Jesus said something, so it is their opinion, not Jesus'. That it is in line with their pre-existing beliefs comes as no surprise.

How are miracles done in Pope John Paul's name if he's in hell?