A Non-Religious Abortion Debate

Originally posted by ShadellacZumbrum
Isn't Murder a moral virtue as set forth by the 10 Commandments of the Bible, Thou Shalt No Kill?

No, murder is a crime established the first time that a society made it a law that you could not kill someone.

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Originally posted by jimmyx

Originally posted by Sippy Cup
reply to post by Darth_Prime

 

I say then you have that choice but you receive no assistance in doing it, you must do it yourself.
However isn't that is considered murder, by law?

don't worry this will happen...because that is what happened BEFORE roe v. wade. of course, the religious right-wing don't read history books, or understand why roe v. wade was passed in the first place. it was to keep mothers, daughters, wives, sisters, from bleeding to death from the butchering of botched illegal abortions.....my mother was a nurse in a small town in Illinois back in the 1940's....and girls and women of that town, and surrounding farm communities both poor and wealthy, came to the doctor she worked with. back then, it was called "female problems", she participated in hundreds of abortions that were kept quiet, even the young girls didn't know what happened to them, the doctor and their own mothers would lie, because of the shame involved.
the anti-abortionists are disgusting in their ignorance of the way "HOW LIFE IS ACTUALLY LIVED".

edit on 5-7-2013 by jimmyx because: (no reason given)

Correct. Women would stick coat hangers in themselves. They would eat toxic plants, drink bleach and draino. They would throw themselves down stairs. A desperate woman says, "either this baby dies, or I die and the baby along with me." You will never, ever, ever be able to stop them from doing these things, regardless of what you think about abortion. It has been happening since the beginning of civilization, and it will continue to happen if we make medical abortion illegal. As a society, these are our only two choices: medical abortion, or homemade abortion.

"either this baby dies, or I die and the baby along with me."

for the baby to die, wouldn't it first have to be alive? If it is alive then, to kill it would not be protected by the "mother's rights" but would be the same as killing any other living human being.

Done and done

Originally posted by kaylaluv


Hey, I advocate forced vasectomies for all boys before the age of puberty. They can only be reversed after age 21, and only after they prove they are really ready to have a kid. If it's okay to force the women to have babies they don't want, it's okay to force vasectomies on males.

I disagree on the forced vasectomies, but I think that we should offer them for free for anyone who wants one. I think that preventing the pregnancy is what we should focus on. If you want to mess around get fixed!

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Correct. Women would stick coat hangers in themselves. They would eat toxic plants, drink bleach and draino. They would throw themselves down stairs. A desperate woman says, "either this baby dies, or I die and the baby along with me." You will never, ever, ever be able to stop them from doing these things, regardless of what you think about abortion. It has been happening since the beginning of civilization, and it will continue to happen if we make medical abortion illegal. As a society, these are our only two choices: medical abortion, or homemade abortion.

Well that sums up the hormonal pregnant female psyche pretty well, and what a compelling reason to keep abortion legal. "Either give us abortion, or we're gonna go bat# crazy and kill ourselves along with your kids." And you wonder why I want to take away your right to decide who lives and who dies.

This is even more convincing that abortion is murder than my argument about when a human life starts. Bravo!

reply to post by MrBigDave


The Bible is Not a society.

It clearly states thou shalt not kill. The word kill could easily be translated to Murder.

Originally posted by eletheia
reply to post by Bone75

 

It is a parasite because it cannot survive without it's host.

A human parasite but still unable to survive without it's maternal host.

Which means that its not part of the mother and has it's own identity, correct?

Originally posted by Bone75

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Correct. Women would stick coat hangers in themselves. They would eat toxic plants, drink bleach and draino. They would throw themselves down stairs. A desperate woman says, "either this baby dies, or I die and the baby along with me." You will never, ever, ever be able to stop them from doing these things, regardless of what you think about abortion. It has been happening since the beginning of civilization, and it will continue to happen if we make medical abortion illegal. As a society, these are our only two choices: medical abortion, or homemade abortion.

Well that sums up the hormonal pregnant female psyche pretty well, and what a compelling reason to keep abortion legal. "Either give us abortion, or we're gonna go bat# crazy and kill ourselves along with your kids." And you wonder why I want to take away your right to decide who lives and who dies.

This is even more convincing that abortion is murder than my argument about when a human life starts. Bravo!

Regardless of your misogynist attitudes, my point still stands. You have those two choices, well, maybe a third choice: forced sterilizations. Which one of those three choices would you choose?

Originally posted by windword

Tell me, at what point do a woman's eggs stop being a part of her body?

The moment the male chromosomes and female chromosomes fuse to become a new person. At that point it is no longer part of your body because it is developing it's own and you are it's host.

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Originally posted by Bone75

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Correct. Women would stick coat hangers in themselves. They would eat toxic plants, drink bleach and draino. They would throw themselves down stairs. A desperate woman says, "either this baby dies, or I die and the baby along with me." You will never, ever, ever be able to stop them from doing these things, regardless of what you think about abortion. It has been happening since the beginning of civilization, and it will continue to happen if we make medical abortion illegal. As a society, these are our only two choices: medical abortion, or homemade abortion.

Well that sums up the hormonal pregnant female psyche pretty well, and what a compelling reason to keep abortion legal. "Either give us abortion, or we're gonna go bat# crazy and kill ourselves along with your kids." And you wonder why I want to take away your right to decide who lives and who dies.

This is even more convincing that abortion is murder than my argument about when a human life starts. Bravo!

Regardless of your misogynist attitudes, my point still stands. You have those two choices, well, maybe a third choice: forced sterilizations. Which one of those three choices would you choose?

How about the most rational of all... DON'T GET PREGNANT!

Or does that make too much sense?

reply to post by Bone75


Contraceptives are a great way of doing just that don't you think? It prevents people from getting pregnant, just like condoms. I don't see you up in arms about condoms though.

Are you saying no one should have sex unless they're trying to have a baby? Sometimes accidents happen, and to force the labor pains and hospital bills on an unwilling person seems kind of unfair in my opinion.

Originally posted by Bone75

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Originally posted by Bone75

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Correct. Women would stick coat hangers in themselves. They would eat toxic plants, drink bleach and draino. They would throw themselves down stairs. A desperate woman says, "either this baby dies, or I die and the baby along with me." You will never, ever, ever be able to stop them from doing these things, regardless of what you think about abortion. It has been happening since the beginning of civilization, and it will continue to happen if we make medical abortion illegal. As a society, these are our only two choices: medical abortion, or homemade abortion.

Well that sums up the hormonal pregnant female psyche pretty well, and what a compelling reason to keep abortion legal. "Either give us abortion, or we're gonna go bat# crazy and kill ourselves along with your kids." And you wonder why I want to take away your right to decide who lives and who dies.

This is even more convincing that abortion is murder than my argument about when a human life starts. Bravo!

Regardless of your misogynist attitudes, my point still stands. You have those two choices, well, maybe a third choice: forced sterilizations. Which one of those three choices would you choose?

How about the most rational of all... DON'T GET PREGNANT!

Yeah, yeah - if you're poor, just get rich. If you get cancer, just get well. If only life was that simple. Truth is, life is messy and sometimes crap happens.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Bone75

 

Contraceptives are a great way of doing just that don't you think? It prevents people from getting pregnant, just like condoms. I don't see you up in arms about condoms though.

I'm not going through the trouble of explaining why I'm in favor of condoms AGAIN. I've explained it quite a few times in this thread and density simply isn't my fault.

Are you saying no one should have sex unless they're trying to have a baby?

No. I'm saying that people shouldn't have sex unless they are willing to accept the fact that accidents happen. Just because your contraceptive failed doesn't give you the right to kill the consequences. We all know what causes pregnancy.

reply to post by Bone75


Because sperm in the tip of it doesn't kill anyone, right? Well, contraceptives don't kill anyone either, so it seems you have set a double standard in that area.

Contraceptives have the same exact purpose as condoms, and sperm is a living organism as well, so I fail to see where you have drawn the line between the two.

Originally posted by Bone75

Originally posted by windword

Tell me, at what point do a woman's eggs stop being a part of her body?

The moment the male chromosomes and female chromosomes fuse to become a new person. At that point it is no longer part of your body because it is developing it's own and you are it's host.

No. Wishful thinking, on your part, that your deposit suddenly takes ownership of a woman's body away from her.

The egg was part of her body while it was in her ovaries. It was part of her body as it floated down the fallopian tube. It was a part of her body when it was fertilized, and it is still part of her body when it attaches to her uterus.

An egg, that is part of a woman's body, doesn't instantly become NOT part of her body because of a change in chemical composition.

I think you either A) accept responsibility for your actions and take care of the child like any adult would do...even if it's "beyond your means"....there are plenty of women living in slums that put their children first and do the right thing....even if that means eating what's left of their childs dinner...

or B) be safe and responsible to begin with...meaning if you feel you cannot support a child, then you should take any measure available to you to prevent pregnancy....

The option C) abandoning all responsibilities caused by your decisions should not, IMHO, even be remotely considered.

Now, as to rare circumstances such as rape...it's not the mother's fault by any means....but they must also understand that the child has no say in the matter either....

It's really a touchy subject....that's for sure...

And here's the kicker that may or may not cause an uproar....
I believe that getting an abortion is SELFISH. Think of the child...that's all I'm sayin.

A2D

Originally posted by windword
The egg was part of her body while it was in her ovaries. It was part of her body as it floated down the fallopian tube. It was a part of her body when it was fertilized, and it is still part of her body when it attaches to her uterus.

And what if it isn't fertilized? Seems to me it was never part of "your body" to begin with.

reply to post by Bone75

And what if it isn't fertilized? Seems to me it was never part of "your body" to begin with.

There's no logic in that statement. Are her ovaries a part of her body? Then the eggs are part of her body.

reply to post by Bone75


If it's made by their body and is inside of their body then it is part of their body.

You're reaching pretty far with that statement.

reply to post by Agree2Disagree

or B) be safe and responsible to begin with...meaning if you feel you cannot support a child, then you should take any measure available to you to prevent pregnancy

What if responsible birth control fails?

I believe that getting an abortion is SELFISH. Think of the child...that's all I'm sayin.

I believe that having a baby is the most selfish thing a person, or couple, can do. People have children because they WANT them.

reply to post by Agree2Disagree


I think forcing a baby into poverty because you don't agree with something is less moral than preventing that baby from being put into poverty through contraceptives/abortion.