Former Evolutionists and former Creationists

Originally posted by Prezbo369
reply to post by randyvs

 

Do people who've never heard of your god also have to learn to not believe in it?

That's it ! This is all you can come up with ? What happened to your usual insults ?
Decided they weren't such a good idea huh ? Glad to help and you're welcome.

Originally posted by randyvs

Originally posted by Prezbo369
reply to post by randyvs

 

Do people who've never heard of your god also have to learn to not believe in it?

That's it ! This is all you can come up with ? What happened to your usual insults ?
Decided they weren't such a good idea huh ? Glad to help and you're welcome.

edit on 29-7-2013 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

Good job buddy, again ignore the question posed and attempt to take the moral high ground while laying on the passive aggressiveness.

No more threats that your god will be pissed with me if I don't join your cult?

Why you break the mould and try to answer a question honestly?

Or could it be that your hold an utterly indefensible set of beliefs that fall apart at the first sign of any kind of examination?

Reply to post by redoubt

Gaping holes? Have you ever sat through a college general biology course? I can assure you there are not any gaping holes. You just have to read some more.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by Prezbo369


You're redundant, thats all. Same ole crap over and over and completely boring.

Originally posted by randyvs
See I didn't have to grow up to start thinking
for my self. I was taught to do that from a wee lil boy.
You had to learn how not to believe in God. I'm an exception
to the indoctrination hypothesis. I've explained this before.
You obviously never had any love for Christ and without that
You're doomed.

I believed in Jesus and loved him with all my heart during the time when I thought he was actually real and was God's son. The sacraments were a huge deal to me. You see, I WAS a product of indoctrination. I know what it's like to be emotionally attached to a belief system, and how hard it is to step outside of that comfort zone and look at it as an unbiased outsider. At the time when I began to question my faith, it was a very difficult process. I couldn't even consider that any other religion or alternative explanation for life could be true. I began to realize that most other religious people feel the same way about their respective religions, yet as Christian I thought I KNEW that their explanations were all wrong.

One could justify a religion by preaching out of its holy book, but which holy book is right? I prayed to Jesus for answers, signs, or anything that could guide me to the right path, but I received no response. After thinking about it more, I realized, my entire life before that as a dedicated believer, Jesus/God/Mary had never responded to any of my prayers or even gave me an inkling of a hint to even suggest they are listening.

After enough time researching other religions, I realized that there is simply no way to tell which religions are true and which are false. I decided I was no longer going to fuel this emotional connection to an old religion to make a decision about faith. Afterall, that's a very important decision, especially considering that as Christian (and many others), my eternity was on the line. During this time, I interpreted the various belief systems as different pathways to the same ultimate goal. The goal is essentially empathy, selflessness, and enlightenment. You learn how to live and let live. So many religions penalize your soul for not believing in them, so who's to know which one is the true way? To me it's simple. There is no true way. Each person has their own path to create.

My personal "belief system" is more of a combination of several others. Call it Barcsism, I don't really have a name for it. I feel that belief systems are supposed to be personal paths of morality that you build over time by learning from your experiences in life. I do not believe they should be pre programmed to children at impressionable ages. People create their own reality, and if that reality includes Jesus, then that's the reality you'll see whether you objectively notice it or not. I don't need to justify the path I follow, only to live a life of benevolence and follow the pursuit of knowledge.

The truth is I did love Jesus with all my heart. It just didn't work out. It was a one way relationship, and it got stale over time. I learned that if God / Jesus are real, they don't really care that much if we worship them as gods or if we try to telepathically communicate with them. Live a benevolent life and it doesn't matter which belief system you follow, you'll be just fine.

reply to post by Barcs

The truth is I did love Jesus with all my heart.

Then I suggest quite possibly, you still do Barcs.
I love him for the man described in the Bible.
And at the very least that man went to the
cross believing in what he was doing.
Love is not a switch we turn off and
on. You know that. The guy is my
all time hero. No matter what,he
is badass in my eyes..I just happen
to believe all that makes him more than
just a man. He's God to me.There's no way
existence like the one we share, is just a fluke.
Any way we've gone back and fourth on this subject
for quite a while, you and I. And I think it's at least high
time we find common ground to speak as friends. I know I
would enjoy that so much more. Just compare notes as friends.

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by Prezbo369

 

You're redundant, thats all. Same ole crap over and over and completely boring.

Then why reply in the first place? :puz

Or could it be that you're unable to give an answer?

Given our previous exchanges i'm inclined to think it's the latter, so either reply with an answer or don't bother replying at all.

Originally posted by randyvs
Then I suggest quite possibly, you still do Barcs.
I love him for the man described in the Bible.
And at the very least that man went to the
cross believing in what he was doing.
Love is not a switch we turn off and
on. You know that. The guy is my
all time hero. No matter what,he
is badass in my eyes..I just happen
to believe all that makes him more than
just a man. He's God to me.There's no way
existence like the one we share, is just a fluke.
Any way we've gone back and fourth on this subject
for quite a while, you and I. And I think it's at least high
time we find common ground to speak as friends. I know I
would enjoy that so much more. Just compare notes as friends.

I do not still love Jesus, that ship has long sailed. You can not love someone that you don't even think exists. But I respect the teachings and incorporate most into my daily life (morality based not supernatural based). Jesus was all about empathy, and that's my prime directive, so to speak. There's also the huge elephant in the room about how this allegedly peaceful belief system was spread by the sword and forced on the population in the very beginning, which took us into one of our darkest periods as a civilization. It's not like that anymore, but people still indoctrinate children as if it was. A religion of peace should not need to be forced on anybody (whether physically or psychologically). It should be accepted based on its merit as positive guidance for people's lives. The fact that it had to be forced on people is another primary reason why I left it. I simply don't trust those types of people, in all likelihood they made up the vast majority of biblical stories. They maimed, tortured and mutilated people for even questioning it. I can't be associated with that. I don't care that it's in the past, it's wrong and undermines the entire religion and throws the entire validity of it into question.

Originally posted by Astyanax
Evolution is a fact, not a theory. You don't have to believe in facts; they're true anyway. You can reject them all you want; they'll just come round at you from behind and bite you in the bottom. This happens to creationists a lot.

There is a theory of evolution. It explains how and why evolution happens (through a process called natural selection). You don't have to believe the theory either, but after 164 years of steadily growing evidence – and absolutely no contradictory evidence that stands up to even casual scrutiny – it's hard for informed people to keep insisting it's not true. People who want to do that have to keep themselves deliberately ignorant. Many do.

Educated, well-meaning people who want to keep believing in God and still keep all their brain cells in one place tend to accept the theory of evolution, but believe that evolution is somehow the work of God.

That works well enough if you don't look at the subject too closely. When you do, you realise it means that God is either just a very clever organic chemist or the author of a defective creation.

Truth is the ultimate enemy of faith.

Evolution demonstrated through intelligent design is a fact, not a theory.

Evolution on it's own is a crappy theory if you ask me. And Yes evolution on it's own is a theory.

Tricky buggers you evolutionist are.

Evolution is an explanation on why a watch has no maker because we cannot see how big the watch is.

The computer evolves, the cellphone evolves, art and science evolve, a car evolves. With out intelligent design there is no such thing as evolution.

The Rat.

Originally posted by TucoTheRat
Evolution demonstrated through intelligent design is a fact, not a theory.

The natural phenomenon we call evolution is a fact. The theory of evolution is an attempt to explain this phenomenon. Intelligent design is a failed idea.

Evolution on it's own is a crappy theory if you ask me. And Yes evolution on it's own is a theory.

"It's" is a contraction for "it is". "Its" is a possessive pronoun meaning belonging to it. Evolution is both a theory and a fact.

Originally posted by rhinoceros
The natural phenomenon we call evolution is a fact. The theory of evolution is an attempt to explain this phenomenon. Intelligent design is a failed idea.

Hot! Dog! I have a live one!

Hello Rhinoceros,

I agree. It's is natural for things to evolve, Life and the Universe as we know it in theory could have been designed that way intelligently.

Actually the only facts we have are that evolution happens by intelligent design. The tool, Science, is not implemented by accident. Intelligent people design ways to test theories and calculations in labs or they are observed in life within the desired parameters and conditions. Once these tests are observed to be fact they are no longer a theory.

Can some of the elements on our theoretically incomplete Periodic Table be pressurized and heated to a point when they become an amino acid? Yes they can. How do we know this? Because it was done in a lab, by a group of scientists who intelligently designed the right parameters and conditions for this theory to become fact? Are asteroids, comets and extreme Earth conditions the perfect mix for one of the building blocks of life? In theory.

The above is a simple example of "Fact" vs "Theory', think of it kind of like "Its" Vs "It's" if you will. If your reading comprehension is not a sharp as your skills in grammar, please reread a few times until you feel comfortable enough to continue. Take your time, no rush.

So, how can we have two categories for evolution? How can evolution be a fact and a theory? Well, in reality evolution is not both fact and theory it is only a fact. One fact we have as evolution is that it happens and we theorize it could happen with out intelligent design, another fact about evolution is that it happens by intelligent design.

Genetic engineering is a fact. Monsanto genetically engineering seeds is a fact. Glow in the dark fish, glow in the dark rats, and millions of other patents on organisms created by intelligent design are a fact. Bird cross breading, dog cross breading, tiger and loin cross breading, and plant stem splicing by intelligent design are a fact. The car, the computer, energy and any other fact that proves evolution is caused by intelligent design, both biological and non biological, is a FACT!

Does evolution happen without intelligent design or accidentally? Only in theory. Only in theory! ONLY IN THEORY!

"It's" is a contraction for "it is". "Its" is a possessive pronoun meaning belonging to it. Evolution is both a theory and a fact.

wrong! Again, lets work on our reading comprehension!

Evolution by intelligent design is a fact. The only fact concerning evolution that we have.

Does evolution happen without intelligent design is the theory and this theory does not diminish or contradict any facts already established about evolution until proven otherwise through the tools of Science. And good luck with that.

edit on 2-8-2013 by rhinoceros because: (no reason given)

I have no problems with any of the 14 points lazily imaged in your post; and I have presented facts proving evolution happens by intelligent design in my post to you.

Now I challenge you to present some facts that evolution happens accidentally and without intelligent design to me. You and anyone else.

Just, please, try not to be obtuse and if you can't not (

reply to post by TucoTheRat


Natural selection, the complete opposite of random or accidental.......

Alien intelligent designer not required.

Stop watching Kent Hovind videos....

Originally posted by TucoTheRat
I agree. It's is natural for things to evolve, Life and the Universe as we know it in theory could have been designed that way intelligently.

I'm fine with this although nothing points to an intelligent designer.

Actually the only facts we have are that evolution happens by intelligent design.

Actually, nothing hints of intelligent design. This is a fact.

So, how can we have two categories for evolution? How can evolution be a fact and a theory? Well, in reality evolution is not both fact and theory it is only a fact.

No, it's both fact (a natural phenomenon) and theory (attempt to explain said phenomenon).

One fact we have as evolution is that it happens and we theorize it could happen with out intelligent design, another fact about evolution is that it happens by intelligent design.

A fact is that nobody has ever managed to show any sign of intelligent designer behind life. As far as we can tell, evolution is 100% natural phenomenon.

The car, the computer, energy and any other fact that proves evolution is caused by intelligent design, both biological and non biological, is a FACT!

No. This only goes to show that a natural process (evolution) has lead to a species that can design stuff.

I have no problems with any of the 14 points lazily imaged in your post; and I have presented facts proving evolution happens by intelligent design in my post to you.

You've merely presented a misinformed illogical opinion. Nothing backs up your claim of evolution happening by intelligent design.

Now I challenge you to present some facts that evolution happens accidentally and without intelligent design to me. You and anyone else.

See the previous picture I posted.

^He's confusing the origin of life with evolution. What else is new?

reply to post by TucoTheRat


You don't seem to even know what biological evolution is. You keep talking about amino acids and what not but that has nothing to do with evolution. Evolution is about genetic mutations and environmental changes. It has nothing to do with how the first life got here. How can you argue against a scientific theory when you don't even know the basics about it? The ego is crazy. Intelligent Design is a guess, not a fact. Random mutations that are measurable and observable from parent to child prove your entire idea wrong. No ID necessary.

Originally posted by Prezbo369
reply to post by TucoTheRat

 

Natural selection, the complete opposite of random or accidental.......

Alien intelligent designer not required.

Stop watching Kent Hovind videos....

How could you possibly know that!

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying your blind butt was intelligently designed to be an ignorant animal who thinks he knows were life originated from. But, I theorize it would take some powerful computing power not found on this planet to come up with and design such a magnificently stupid beast of burden.

But you know, what do I know? I'm just a simple ranchero....



This video has English subtitles in case you only speak one language.

The Rat.

Who the hell is Kent Hovind? I read Lou Baldin dude

reply to post by AnnieWolf19


Personally I think you can live your life as a good and kind person adhering to the teachings of Jesus while still being an agnostic or atheist who firmly believes in evolution. I grew up Catholic but knew from a very young age that the geological record contradicted what the church taught me. it doesn't mean the concepts of Christianity are an exclusively Christian notion. You can live your life treating people kindly and respecting them without having to believe in the supernatural aspects.

reply to post by TucoTheRat

Originally posted by Barcs
^He's confusing the origin of life with evolution. What else is new?

reply to post by TucoTheRat

 

You don't seem to even know what biological evolution is. You keep talking about amino acids and what not but that has nothing to do with evolution. Evolution is about genetic mutations and environmental changes. It has nothing to do with how the first life got here. How can you argue against a scientific theory when you don't even know the basics about it? The ego is crazy. Intelligent Design is a guess, not a fact. Random mutations that are measurable and observable from parent to child prove your entire idea wrong. No ID necessary.

What that guy said......

But yeah, how could you possibly know that??

Oh that's right, by reading books other that weren't written by UFO conspiracists....

Originally posted by rhinoceros
I'm fine with this although nothing points to an intelligent designer.

Lack of proof does not explain the lack of an intelligent designer; especially when we the observer of nature constantly and do nothing but try to mimic nature with nothing, and I mean nothing, but intelligent design.

It would be like saying there is no life in the Universe while living on Earth with the sole purpose of proving the lack of life in the Universe.

Oh wait, people already do that, and it makes my brain hurt.

Actually, nothing hints of intelligent design. This is a fact.

Dude can you please at least follow the rules of your own little 14 point image? Give me an example of this fact. Show me ONE, just one, fact that proves evolution happens without intelligent design.

Again, and please answer this question if you will.

Is not Genetic engineering is a fact. Monsanto genetically engineering seeds, glow in the dark fish, glow in the dark rats, millions of other patents on organisms, bird cross breading, dog cross breading, tiger and loin cross breading, and plant stem splicing forms of evolution? Do they not fit all or any of the 14 points you presented?

Is this truly not examples of evolution? If not then what are they examples of?

No, it's both fact (a natural phenomenon) and theory (attempt to explain said phenomenon).

It must be fun to live in such a paradox on such a macro level. Damn dude evolution is like the double double slit experiment, without the experiment. hahaha!

A fact is that nobody has ever managed to show any sign of intelligent designer behind life. As far as we can tell, evolution is 100% natural phenomenon.

Monsanto!

What do you want a giant half fish/rat corn plant the size Godzilla to bite your head off before you wake up and smell the intelligently designed evolution going on in millions of labs around the world?

Please dude now your just being Obtuse on purpose.

No. This only goes to show that a natural process (evolution) has lead to a species that can design stuff.

Well if simple boiled pond scum and can so easily evolve into an intelligent designer, by nothing more than coincidence and time why segregate your mind from theorizing in the possibility of it happening again, and again, and again way before any pond scum was on this rock was boiled?

Imagine what Monsanto could come up with in a few million years? scary to think there might even be a Monsanto patent on your butt, encoded in your DNA.

You've merely presented a misinformed illogical opinion. Nothing backs up your claim of evolution happening by intelligent design.

The question is not if evolution can happen by intelligent design, this, and believe me it does not matter how in denial you are, is a fact. You don't get fish/strawberries that don't freeze in the cold with out intelligent design, no matter how stupid the creation is. And if you can't categorize fish/strawberries that don't freeze in the cold into evolution then your 14 point images is nothing more than garbage vomited on the internet.

So you tell me are fish/strawberries evolution in the making or not?

See the previous picture I posted.

OK I just did...and?

The Rat.

P.S. one against three makes me a bit lazy to go over my grammar so, please help me out with that.

Originally posted by Barcs
^He's confusing the origin of life with evolution. What else is new?

reply to post by TucoTheRat

 

You don't seem to even know what biological evolution is. You keep talking about amino acids and what not but that has nothing to do with evolution. Evolution is about genetic mutations and environmental changes. It has nothing to do with how the first life got here. How can you argue against a scientific theory when you don't even know the basics about it? The ego is crazy. Intelligent Design is a guess, not a fact. Random mutations that are measurable and observable from parent to child prove your entire idea wrong. No ID necessary.

edit on 3-8-2013 by Barcs because: (no reason given)

Dude....

Seriously dude...

Your just embarrassing yourself. I mean to idiots who don't know how to read your a genius, but I'm sure even Rhinoceros would agree that your reading comprehension is even worse than his LOL!

Let me explain...

I said...

Can some of the elements on our theoretically incomplete Periodic Table be pressurized and heated to a point when they become an amino acid? Yes they can. How do we know this? Because it was done in a lab, by a group of scientists who intelligently designed the right parameters and conditions for this theory to become fact? Are asteroids, comets and extreme Earth conditions the perfect mix for one of the building blocks of life? In theory.

but then I said right after...

The above is a simple example of "Fact" vs "Theory', think of it kind of like "Its" Vs "It's" if you will. If your reading comprehension is not a sharp as your skills in grammar, please reread a few times until you feel comfortable enough to continue. Take your time, no rush.

Now please reread my second quote a few times, Take your time, no rush.

The above was an example of "fact" Vs "theory".

aaah, who am I kidding your not going to understand.

The Rat.

reply to post by Barcs

Originally posted by Barcs
I do not still love Jesus, that ship has long sailed. You can not love someone that you don't even think exists.

Your beliefs are your beliefs, and your reasons for those beliefs are fine and good. But the 2nd part of your statement is a bit confusing to me. When you say "you" in that statement, are you speaking about yourself or for everyone else?

It's a generally well accepted truth that Jesus of Nazareth did in fact exist. Even atheists concede that much. So when you say that you stopped loving Him because you can't believe in someone who you don't think exists, what does that mean exactly? Is that a general rule you live by, or just as it applies in this context?

I mean, have you ever lost someone, a family member perhaps, who you loved; but then stopped loving them because they no longer existed?