The Constitution and Gay Marriage

I was having coffee with a friend of mine this weekend and we started talking about Gay marriage.

If the constitution is changed to prevent gay couples from getting the same rights as others, won't this lead to all out discrimination that is condoned by the govenrnment? If people see gay people and chuckle "we can get married, but you can't", won't that start people having a better-than-you attitude? Once that happens, all hell will break loose. As soon as people start to realize they are allowed certain rights and others are not, they start stepping all over the have-nots. I see it happen ever day. It's very Orwellian, if you ask me. And once the ball starts rolling, it wil be very hard to stop it. African-americans have been trying to stop the discrimination ball for over a hunderd years already.

But our real discussion was about people who have sex change operations. If one person (lets say a man) changes his sex to female and marries another man, can they legally marry? What defines a man and woman? Do they need to be born a male and female? And what about hormone therapy... if a woman starts taking testosterone, she has male hormones in her body. Can she say she is "male"? Technically, she could argue that she is partly. I know this is absurd (hell, the idea of changing the constitution is absurd), but if the constitution demands we draw the line, where do we draw it?

Perhaps the constitution will have to be more explicit when they say marriage is between a "man and a woman".

It is sad that people still being taught to fear gay people.

I don't want amendments to define marriage!

Marriage is a social institution, and once they start legislating it, then what's to stop them from legislating it to be "genetically approved people only" or "whites only" or "native born only"? At what point do they chop it up so fine that it starts treading on YOUR toes?

YEAH....................!!!!!!!!!!!!

People are afraid of what they don't know
Gay people are people like anybody else!!!!!!!!! Why they don't understand that!?

If they r not gay, it does'nt even concern THEM!
What different does it make in their everyday life??????? We should always ask ourselves "what will it change in my own life????" We don't want married gay??? Where is the world goin??? We don't want gays to be happy?

What about handicap people, dwarfs and other people who r slightly different, do they have the right to do what they want with their lives!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ameliaxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

We fear what we don't understand. We attack those we fear.

This is the "mantra" of the many people more concerned with themselves than the people around them. It's too bad that this attitude is being condoned and even nurtured by our government.

I guess if the constitution said all humans are created equal and have equal rights and responsibilities under the law, then it wouldn't be an issue. In some areas, not that long ago, mixed race marriage were against the law. I know a few old timers (and some not so old) that think it's sick and wrong for people to date and marry across racial lines. Women still aren't equal under the law. The ERA was defeated last in the Reagan years, and when slaves were freed, they only counted as 2/3rds of a white for census purposes.

So a whole lot of bigotry would be solved if there was a "premendment" - a sentence in front of our constitution and/or bill of rights that said once and for all, we're all equal, each and every one of us.

One reason why Canada is looking good to folks is that their version of a constitution says exactly that. Give it a read:

www.canadianheritage.gc.ca...

Originally posted by Saerlaith


One reason why Canada is looking good to folks is that their version of a constitution says exactly that. Give it a read:

www.canadianheritage.gc.ca...

I dont remember Gay marriage being legal in all parts of Canada. Whats provinces are holding out?

Originally posted by Byrd
I don't want amendments to define marriage!

Marriage is a social institution, and once they start legislating it, then what's to stop them from legislating it to be "genetically approved people only" or "whites only" or "native born only"? At what point do they chop it up so fine that it starts treading on YOUR toes?

Hey, now you are starting to understand the Libertarian philosophy. I know that this subject belongs to another thread, but I just thought I'd point it out.

Originally posted by ShadowXIX

Originally posted by Saerlaith


One reason why Canada is looking good to folks is that their version of a constitution says exactly that. Give it a read:

www.canadianheritage.gc.ca...

I dont remember Gay marriage being legal in all parts of Canada. Whats provinces are holding out?

The courts of six Canadian provinces or territories have ruled to allow same-sex marriages. British Columbia, Ontario and Quebec allowed gay marriages in 2003, the Yukon territory followed in July and Manitoba and Nova Scotia last month. The Saskatchewan court is expected to rule this month. I think a couple provinces recognize same-sex marriages performed in other provinces, but don't marry gays themselves.

It isn't legal everywhere yet, but at least they are considering it as a rights issue via their constitution, instead of a religious issue. And there is some kind of clause that a province can invoke (notwithstanding clause or something like that) that gets them off the hook in some way. I believe Alberta shares many views with conservative amerika, and will most likely decide not to recognize gay marriages.

The way marriage is set up legally in the US confers benefits to some people but not equally under the law. Canada is trying to be fair and say that if some people are entitled to these benefits (inheritance, child custody, power of attorney, hospital visitation and so on) then everyone should be. You either have to take the government-conferred benefits away from marriage and leave it as woman/man, or keep the benefits and make them available to each citizen equally. At least that would seem fair and legal to me.

Yeah...Well, In Canada, we judge nobody and we have the biggest gay proud parade and gay partys and gays are everywhere!
We have a gay village and all!

I Live in Montreal, Qu�bec and we are not religious at all, so that must be why we are open to gays getting married

Any way! In Qu�bec when u live with a person (as a couple) for 3 years u are considered married because marriage here is like "old school" not "in" we don't give a crap about churches...we r very very liberal so that is why we don't understand republicans! We are not religious, non judging and loving hehehehehe but the Province OF QU�BEC is very different than the rest of canada.
Ameliaxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Originally posted by Amelia
Yeah...Well, In Canada, we judge nobody and we have the biggest gay proud parade and gay partys and gays are everywhere!
We have a gay village and all!

I

Well as long as you live in a part of Canada that allows Gay marriage. But wait I thought you said we judge nobody in Canada.

Tell that to a gay couple that lives areas where its not legal

[edit on 9-11-2004 by ShadowXIX]

Here is my take on gay marriage in America. I personally don't want it to be sanctioned because I do not want to see gays kissing each other and what not. I also think that once gay marriage is legal that gays will become more aggressive and I am afraid for the gay male that may pinch my butt or get too aggressive in sexual advances meaning I will end up in jail for beating up a homosexual. With that said though the constitution of the United States gaurantees the right to pursue happiness. I am all for the Government staying the heck out of my and everyone elses private lives. I do not believe amending the constitution is the answer.

Originally posted by cryptorsa1001
Here is my take on gay marriage in America. I personally don't want it to be sanctioned because I do not want to see gays kissing each other and what not. I also think that once gay marriage is legal that gays will become more aggressive and I am afraid for the gay male that may pinch my butt

or get too aggressive in sexual advances meaning I will end up in jail for beating up a homosexual.

...are you for real?

[edit on 11/9/2004 by Lecky]

Originally posted by cryptorsa1001
Here is my take on gay marriage in America. I personally don't want it to be sanctioned because I do not want to see gays kissing each other and what not. I also think that once gay marriage is legal that gays will become more aggressive and I am afraid for the gay male that may pinch my butt

or get too aggressive in sexual advances meaning I will end up in jail for beating up a homosexual. With that said though the constitution of the United States gaurantees the right to pursue happiness. I am all for the Government staying the heck out of my and everyone elses private lives. I do not believe amending the constitution is the answer.

Do you read what I said!!!!!!!!!! We have plenty of gays in Montreal and we are like any other city in the world....does'nt change a THING!!!!!! U r intolerant!!!!
What about two sexy chicks kissing each other...u like that?

Ameliaxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Originally posted by cryptorsa1001
I also think that once gay marriage is legal that gays will become more aggressive and I am afraid for the gay male that may pinch my butt

or get too aggressive in sexual advances meaning I will end up in jail for beating up a homosexual.

You've got to be kidding me.
First of all, are you so very great looking that homosexuals are going to be following you around just to pinch your butt? Let me ask you: Do you pinch good looking women's butts when you see them walking down the street?

Second, are you that insecure that you would result to violence if they did?

I worked for a company that was tolerant of Gays. since the company was tolerant they came out of the closet so to say. They had the gay banner as screen savers, they openly talked about #ucking their significant other up the ass. They would make comments about guys that walked by. The guys in my department were always touching me and trying to get me to go to thier gay bars and to come back to thier house after work. I worked at other companies that were not so tolerant of the gay life style and did not have the problems mentioned above. I said if you legitimize it they will become more aggressive, i have seen it first hand.

I am a very secure person but will not tolerate another man touching me in a sexual way. I was honest in my opinion and I have been attacked for it. You have condemed me for my views but ignore the fact that you are attacking me yourselfs because I do not agree with you.

You can have laws that promote equality and tolerance alongside laws that prohibit other people's rights and sensibility being offended, there can be a balance, one should not neccessarily cancel the other out.

For sexual harrassment and graphic details of personal sex lives being foisted on unwilling witnesses you should have worked at the factory my brother in law did when he first left school, and I'm talking about the women not the men.

For the record any queer man that goes around trying to make straight men uncomfortable by touching them up deserves a smack in the mouth. Ditto on straight men with women. It is abuse!

Originally posted by Amelia

What about two sexy chicks kissing each other...u like that?

Ameliaxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

In the dictionary under "redundant" it says "See redundant."

Originally posted by cryptorsa1001

I am a very secure person but will not tolerate another man touching me in a sexual way. I was honest in my opinion and I have been attacked for it. You have condemed me for my views but ignore the fact that you are attacking me yourselfs because I do not agree with you.

There is exceptions everywhere...It's not easyer when you are a woman surrounded by macho men who undresse you head to toes with saliva on the corner of the mouth. Or they talk dirty all day at the office!!! I know what it's like
Gays are not different from any guys, guys are guys
What about lesbians, you haven't answered yet....
I'm not attacking you dude, I understand, I'm just trying to make you see that gays are not all queer and sex addicted, not more than straight guys.
Ameliaxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

We must protect the institution of marriage in this country period! It is our moral fiber, it�s what makes us strong! Marriage in the eyes of GOD!! Never mind that divorce rate #ing hypocrites, the lot of them.

Originally posted by Saerlaith
So a whole lot of bigotry would be solved if there was a "premendment" - a sentence in front of our constitution and/or bill of rights that said once and for all, we're all equal, each and every one of us.

You seem to be forgetting the American "premendment".

Declaration of Independence

We hold these truths to be self-evident:

That all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; that, to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, ...