Three Good Arguments For A Different Story of Ancient Egypt

Originally posted by raifordko
reply to post by jeep3r

 

I'm fairly certain limestone was what casing stones were made of. And isn't the picture on the right sandstone? Can you source your material for how you determined they were granite?

Limestone for Khafre and Khufus tomb, granite in part for Menkaure's - the first 16 courses I believe.

The wall shown has rock from either the Rumiqoiqa or Huaccoti quarries and is most probably hornblende andesite - not granite.

reply to post by jeep3r


If you just cannot bring yourself to accept what evidence there is then its up to you to purpose and provide evidence of how you think it's done.

You might also want to look at the other cultures that worked hard stone.

Here's another question to consider: what happened when iron tools became available?

reply to post by jeep3r


nice post nice thinking Jeep


regards

reply to post by jeep3r


Wasnt there a Russian team of qualified engineers that studied the ''stonework anomalies'' on tne plateau for a few years and agreed that hand operated tools could not make those marks/cuts? Cant remember the name, something like LARS comes to mind but most deff isnt right.

You make good points btw, but like others you are faced with a massive wall, therefore creative arguments are unachievable and unwanted by the other side.
Althou, for those that can see, we clearly have sone good points that are quickly dismissed by Academia, or simply ''swept away'' using hard evidence agaisnt weaker, and already debunked ones.

Originally posted by bon3z
reply to post by jeep3r

 

Wasnt there a Russian team of qualified engineers that studied the ''stonework anomalies'' on tne plateau for a few years and agreed that hand operated tools could not make those marks/cuts? Cant remember the name, something like LARS comes to mind but most deff isnt right.

You make good points btw, but like others you are faced with a massive wall, therefore creative arguments are unachievable and unwanted by the other side.
Althou, for those that can see, we clearly have sone good points that are quickly dismissed by Academia, or simply ''swept away'' using hard evidence agaisnt weaker, and already debunked ones.

The best way to proceed is to

1. Get the agreement of thousands of stone working professionals that the work cannot be done in the way specified. This would mean a specific step by step process showing that the archaeological derived ways, and those written about are in some way flawed

2. Offer a prize of several million dollars to an artist to re-create these techniques (they have been duplicated in a small scale before ) but lets see a bigger object made or if you are correct it will be impossible to do so.

3. Find and document this 'other' way all the ancient cultures worked stone


Good luck

PS I've never heard of such a Russian team let me know if you ever find any information on that claim

Oh did you look at the PDF I put up yesterday showing images from ancient quarries? You might find it interesting

Having spent 6 years in the granite cutting and polishing business I can assure you that using copper cores is nonsense. The pressure applied produces tremendous heat and copper would quickly deform, even with a water cooling system the copper and even bronze would not be up to the task. Using diamond cutting technology requires a means of coating the core tip with diamond grit and high tech bonding agents are needed. It is evident from the core samples that the Egyptians could drill through granite at astonishing speeds and even today I do not know of a drilling process that could match the Ancients.

originally posted by: Timkel
Having spent 6 years in the granite cutting and polishing business

By hand or by machine?

By yourself, or with a team of people doing it by hand?

The pressure applied produces tremendous heat and copper would quickly deform, even with a water cooling system the copper and even bronze would not be up to the task.

You seem to believe that they were using electrical motors to power a drill.

It is evident from the core samples that the Egyptians could drill through granite at astonishing speeds

What are you seeing as evidence that they drilled at astonishing speeds?

and even today I do not know of a drilling process that could match the Ancients.

And I don't think you've really looked at their drilled holes. And, frankly, the Chunnel or any large tunnel boring operation more than matches them (as do the very tiny needle-drills we use and so forth.

originally posted by: Timkel
Having spent 6 years in the granite cutting and polishing business I can assure you that using copper cores is nonsense. The pressure applied produces tremendous heat and copper would quickly deform, even with a water cooling system the copper and even bronze would not be up to the task. Using diamond cutting technology requires a means of coating the core tip with diamond grit and high tech bonding agents are needed. It is evident from the core samples that the Egyptians could drill through granite at astonishing speeds and even today I do not know of a drilling process that could match the Ancients.

You spent 6 years in an industry that you apparently know nothing about
Somebody post him the video, then he can tell us that doesn't exist as well

Aah, I thought this would attract the attention of a troll. Well I will attempt to penetrate that shell of ignorance. Electric motors!!, no I didn't say that but the drill core shows indisputable evidence of rapid progress through very hard stone. The spiral cutting line is a pressure,not percussion process and beyond today's capability.the remains of the core show that a very thin-walled tool was used. That is mind boggling!!.

originally posted by: Timkel

Aah, I thought this would attract the attention of a troll. Well I will attempt to penetrate that shell of ignorance. Electric motors!!, no I didn't say that but the drill core shows indisputable evidence of rapid progress through very hard stone. The spiral cutting line is a pressure,not percussion process and beyond today's capability.the remains of the core show that a very thin-walled tool was used. That is mind boggling!!.

Can you link the drill core AND the block that the core was drilled from and how you know that the tube was "thin walled"?

BTW, the Egyptians used a pressure method for drills, not a percussion. I'm not sure where you got percussion from.

Here's a really bad article on how they did tube drilling (but the pictures are good) : www.theglobaleducationproject.org...

They made some fairly tiny drills for beads using this same method
en.wikipedia.org...

And there are drawings of tomb paintings at this page that show the Egyptians using these same drills to work on stone, along with a core and a vessel with the core stuck inside:
www.oocities.org...

My goodness!, I said pressure not percussion. Read the post again. All the information is out there, you really need to do some more research. Try Spirit&Stone,advanced machining in ancient Egypt.

originally posted by: Timkel
My goodness!, I said pressure not percussion. Read the post again. All the information is out there, you really need to do some more research. Try Spirit&Stone,advanced machining in ancient Egypt.

Well, I sure didn't say it was a percussion method! I know better!

No such website as sprit&stone. (if you recommend a site, could you link it, please? Most folks will click ... or at least some of us will.) If you're trying to say you got your information from Christopher "Power-Plant" Dunn's material as evidence, you won't get far. He talks confidently... on pages where he misidentifies objects, and misidentifies very well-known Egyptian gods.

You might look at some different sources for material for stronger arguments.

originally posted by: Timkel
Having spent 6 years in the granite cutting and polishing business I can assure you that using copper cores is nonsense. The pressure applied produces tremendous heat and copper would quickly deform, even with a water cooling system the copper and even bronze would not be up to the task.

The above highlighted portion is the reason for the assumption that you meant electrically powered tools.

Doing this job by hand, heat would be no problem whatsoever.

What Marduk is referring to is the fact that coring granite by hand with copper tubes has actually been accomplished in modern times as a proof of concept. We even dug up a video showing the guy doing it (Denys Stocks.)

He documented tool wear against depth of cut and found that even using just his own supposed method - no frills - he could remove material at a rate that far outpaced tool wear. And these experiments were performed by people that weren't stone workers. No question his results could be improved on if you used a couple of people that had been coring granite by hand for decades, like the Ancient Egyptian stone workers had.

So, your saying it is nonsense, well, that's just nonsense. We already know what you say on this matter is nonsense, we've known it for years, so we don't pay any heed to your squawking.

Harte

originally posted by: Timkel

Aah, I thought this would attract the attention of a troll. Well I will attempt to penetrate that shell of ignorance. Electric motors!!, no I didn't say that but the drill core shows indisputable evidence of rapid progress through very hard stone. The spiral cutting line is a pressure,not percussion process and beyond today's capability.the remains of the core show that a very thin-walled tool was used. That is mind boggling!!.

After the lasts two posts, you should be realising that you are in fact the troll here, turning up way too late for the fact party,

originally posted by: Timkel
Having spent 6 years in the granite cutting and polishing business I can assure you that using copper cores is nonsense.

Having spent about the same amount of time in the same industry, I can assure you that you haven't got a clue what you're talking about.

a reply to: Harte

Watched the video, shows him drilling through soft stone with a bow drill and copper core. Look again at the granite cores and do you honestly believe that method would work and at the speed of cut that the Egyptians achieved. I am not talking alien technology here, I am simply saying that the Egyptians had a method of cutting stone that is beyond our comprehension.

originally posted by: Timkel
a reply to: AdmireTheDistance

Another bull#ter

Would you like to see pictures of the shop I worked in? Some of my work, perhaps?

NO!!, you may have worked in the industry but I can see that any further discussion is pointless.