The Flaw In Your Logic Regarding Homosexuality

Originally posted by slowisfast
reply to post by HairlessApe

 

Really?
You're wound too tight. Learn to relax.

Learn to realize that every accusation isn't an insult.
And defend yourself in a way other than "don't insult me!" or "you're a child!"

Put your money where your mouth is.

Originally posted by slowisfast
reply to post by HairlessApe

 

Comparing homosexuality to the struggles of people of color is the most intellectually dishonest position a person can take on the matter. It's an insult. Ones sexuality is an innately private matter, unlike the color of ones skin, and the nature of ones sexuality is only known to that person and the people they choose to share it with.

Stop comparing gay rights to the civil rights movement, every time you do, you do people like Dr. King and Rosa Parks a great disservice.

edit on 1-7-2013 by slowisfast because: (no reason given)

I would argue that Dr. MLK jr. and Rosa Parks would be advocates for the equal treatment of homosexuals. I would argue that they would recognize a civil rights struggle, despite the fact that it isn't exactly the same as their own. I would argue that they would be disappointed to find that people who respect the rights they gained could simply find another scapegoat to harm without feeling the obvious cognitive dissonance simply by saying "it's not the same." I would argue that they would challenge you to prove how it's significantly different - and if you say "gays weren't treated as badly as blacks" I'm positive they would have some historical citations predating African slavery in the US to prove you wrong.

reply to post by HairlessApe


Put my money where my mouth is?
What does that even mean in this context?

Again, all I've said is the lgbt movements comparison to the civil rights movement is wrong. The oppression of an entire 'race' of people, from slavery, to the right to vote, to the present day is a far more egregious error on the part of humanity than the current aims of the gay rights movement. Period.

My money, I guess, has been in my mouth the whole time, but you've been too busy becoming offended and calling me names to respond to the original, and only, point I made.

Get off your soapbox.

Here, I'll try to make it blatantly obvious for you.

Originally posted by slowisfast
reply to post by HairlessApe

 

Again, all I've said is the lgbt movements comparison to the civil rights movement is wrong.

How? Provide examples.

reply to post by HairlessApe


You're missing the point. Being gay has little to nothing to do with it. Being loud, obnoxious, attention seeking and rude have everything to do with it. It's kinda like how most people try to avoid loud obnoxious drunk people and don't particularly feel comfortable around them. Of course the difference is, the loud drunk obnoxious people don't get to label people as intolerant and try to force people to like them. (ok, maybe some do )

Originally posted by HairlessApe

Originally posted by slowisfast
reply to post by HairlessApe

 

Comparing homosexuality to the struggles of people of color is the most intellectually dishonest position a person can take on the matter. It's an insult. Ones sexuality is an innately private matter, unlike the color of ones skin, and the nature of ones sexuality is only known to that person and the people they choose to share it with.

Stop comparing gay rights to the civil rights movement, every time you do, you do people like Dr. King and Rosa Parks a great disservice.

edit on 1-7-2013 by slowisfast because: (no reason given)

I would argue that Dr. MLK jr. and Rosa Parks would be advocates for the equal treatment of homosexuals. I would argue that they would recognize a civil rights struggle, despite the fact that it isn't exactly the same as their own. I would argue that they would be disappointed to find that people who respect the rights they gained could simply find another scapegoat to harm without feeling the obvious cognitive dissonance simply by saying "it's not the same." I would argue that they would challenge you to prove how it's significantly different - and if you say "gays weren't treated as badly as blacks" I'm positive they would have some historical citations predating African slavery in the US to prove you wrong.

edit on 1-7-2013 by HairlessApe because: (no reason given)

Hypotheticals...huh.

At least you finally got around to responding.
And I disagree with you.

Im glad you're positive, but I don't think Dr. King would, posthumously, appreciate the comparison. I have zero doubt they'd be all for the equal treatment, as I am, but the comparison is poor.

reply to post by slowisfast


Again. Why? And provide examples - or at least some empirical evidence that what you're saying is right.

Originally posted by Wookiep
reply to post by HairlessApe

 

You're missing the point. Being gay has little to nothing to do with it. Being loud, obnoxious, attention seeking and rude have everything to do with it. It's kinda like how most people try to avoid loud obnoxious drunk people and don't particularly feel comfortable around them. Of course the difference is, the loud drunk obnoxious people don't get to label people as intolerant and try to force people to like them. (ok, maybe some do

)

So people are rude because of the way they act? Specifically flamboyant gay people? Maybe they don't like how you act. I guess that doesn't matter? Does only your opinion matter?

Does any OPINION truly matter when talking about whether or not we should accept human beings for their nature? Or should we leave that to fact, and let people act how they like?

reply to post by HairlessApe


Well, considering this is an open discussion forum then I would say opinions DO matter. You're just mad that people have ones that differ from your own. We see this a lot around here and it's nothing new. Person A says something person B doesn't agree with. Person B then has a tantrum and accuses person A of being "intolerant" and "hateful".

*Yawn* Welcome to ATS, now take a Xanax.

And edit for PS: Yes acting rude is being rude, even gays are perfectly capable. No-one's sexuality gives them a pass to act rude.

Originally posted by Wookiep
reply to post by HairlessApe

 

Well, considering this is an open discussion forum then I would say opinions DO matter. You're just mad that people have ones that differ from your own.

We see this a lot around here and it's nothing new. Person A says something person B doesn't agree with. Person B then has a tantrum and accuses person A of being "intolerant" and "hateful".

*Yawn* Welcome to ATS, now take a Xanax.

And edit for PS: Yes acting rude is being rude, even gays are perfectly capable. No-one's sexuality gives them a pass to act rude.

edit on 1-7-2013 by Wookiep because: (no reason given)

No, I didn't mean "is acting rude rude." I meant to ask "does acting in a way that you deem 'flamboyant' make you rude?" Why?

And no, I don't have to respect your opinion. We're talking about fact, so go ahead and share all the opinion you like, but if you're unable to defend your position then I have no obligation to respect what you say, nor does anyone else. Common misconception.

Originally posted by HairlessApe

Originally posted by Wookiep
reply to post by HairlessApe

 

Well, considering this is an open discussion forum then I would say opinions DO matter. You're just mad that people have ones that differ from your own.

We see this a lot around here and it's nothing new. Person A says something person B doesn't agree with. Person B then has a tantrum and accuses person A of being "intolerant" and "hateful".

*Yawn* Welcome to ATS, now take a Xanax.

And edit for PS: Yes acting rude is being rude, even gays are perfectly capable. No-one's sexuality gives them a pass to act rude.

edit on 1-7-2013 by Wookiep because: (no reason given)

No, I didn't mean "is acting rude rude." I meant to ask "does acting in a way that you deem 'flamboyant' make you rude?" Why?

And no, I don't have to respect your opinion. We're talking about fact, so go ahead and share all the opinion you like, but if you're unable to defend your position then I have no obligation to respect what you say, nor does anyone else. Common misconception.

Weird cause you said:

So people are rude because of the way they act?

Why yes, in fact I would wager a bet that the way people ACT is pretty much the ONLY thing that makes people rude.

Also, show me the science (since you're so full of scientific facts) that "flamboyance" is a genetic trait that comes with being gay?

BTW, I don't need your respect nor did I ask for it. I simply stated that opinions on here DO matter since this is a discussion board to express said opinions.

Sheesh, for being such a know-it-all full of facts and science and stuff, you sure haven't showed us much of either.

reply to post by HairlessApe


It's fairly obvious, to me, but I can see how someone can get confused.

Superficially they are the same in the sense that they desire to end intolerance towards their particular groups but the core of the two movements are vastly different.

Racial identity is inherent and obvious, outwardly projected. One's sexuality, while also inherent, is not outwardly projected and therefore unknown until made so. The civil rights movement was about so much more. Slavery, violence, poverty, segregated communities, lack of education, generational disadvantage because of skin color. The civil rights movement was carving out a path of opportunity so the next generation, their sons and daughters, didn't have to go through what they went through.

To compare that to what the LGBT movement is about is not acceptable, to me. I understand how some comparisons can be made but, at their core, they're two completely different things. The fact that Don't Ask Don't Tell even existed is testament to that.

Plus, African Americans, at a 2-1 margin, don't see it like you do.

www.rljcompanies.com... ge-of-Obama_2013.pdf

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


No need to be ashamed for others,

Indeed, i have reiterated to the point of ad nauseum that i will defend anyone's right and freedom to speech, thought, belief and expression, even if it is 'against me', but we are afforded those same freedoms because we are as Human as you, our sexuality doesn't alter that fact

i am not trying to force anyone to think a certain way, i am trying to bring awareness that many things being said are based off misconceptions and misinterpretations,

Yes i am effeminate, Yes i am flamboyant, and yes i am a Drag Queen, but i am still a Human, once we forget that and the compassion for other humans is lost based on Sexuality, Race, Gender, Religion Etc we become more and more divided

Originally posted by slowisfast
reply to post by HairlessApe

 

It's fairly obvious, to me, but I can see how someone can get confused.

Superficially they are the same in the sense that they desire to end intolerance towards their particular groups but the core of the two movements are vastly different.

Racial identity is inherent and obvious, outwardly projected. One's sexuality, while also inherent, is not outwardly projected and therefore unknown until made so. The civil rights movement was about so much more. Slavery, violence, poverty, segregated communities, lack of education, generational disadvantage because of skin color. The civil rights movement was carving out a path of opportunity so the next generation, their sons and daughters, didn't have to go through what they went through.

To compare that to what the LGBT movement is about is not acceptable, to me. I understand how some comparisons can be made but, at their core, they're two completely different things. The fact that Don't Ask Don't Tell even existed is testament to that.

Plus, African Americans, at a 2-1 margin, don't see it like you do.

www.rljcompanies.com... ge-of-Obama_2013.pdf

I mean no disrespect, sir... but surely you DO understand there is an unconsolable difference between a legitimate study and targeted market research, right? You understand the extreme lack of controllable methods often employed by market research in order to slant an opinion for the sake of publicity, sales, etc... Right? Then come on, use some sources which carry integrity. Or at least one that doesn't have "MARKET RESEARCH" stamped on every single page. This is a legitimate request on my behalf. I can google "african americans don't think the gay civil rights movement is the same as theirs" and find a blog too.

Secondly, there was no slavery at the time of the civil rights movement, though I'm not saying that makes the struggles black folks went through any less meaningful, and for that matter, difficult. However... Violence, poverty, segregation, discrimination, and general disadvantage are all suffered by the LGBT community. You can't say their plight is less meaningful because they were never targeted as slaves. To say otherwise... THAT is intellectual dishonesty. If you want to go that route, historically speaking, homosexuals have been the targets of community and mob rage for an equal if not greater duration than Africans.

I find it extremely insulting to hear "they were slaves at one point, therefore their struggle is more legitimate." Tell it to the many ethnic groups which were slaves at one point. I'm Irish and Polish, and my grandparents and all of my ancestors before them were poor. My lineage was never privileged or rich. In fact, my Irish ancestors were likely slaves in the early days of the US, as well as back in Europe. They were the targets of rape and violence by invading countries and fellow countrymen alike. Are the Irish or Polish civil rights struggles meaningful to you? Or do the facts that their skin is white and their slavery ended a century earlier make it less meaningful through your eyes?

reply to post by HairlessApe


I surely couldn't just tell you about all the black folks I know that kinda giggle at the parallels the LGBT community tries to portray. Your mind is made up. You're a gay white dude that wants so badly to try and have your plight equal to that of African Americans in this country that you'll make up reason to feel they are the same.

Get over yourself. You're gay, so what, no one cares but you.

Originally posted by slowisfast
reply to post by HairlessApe

 

I surely couldn't just tell you about all the black folks I know that kinda giggle at the parallels the LGBT community tries to portray. Your mind is made up. You're a gay white dude that wants so badly to try and have your plight equal to that of African Americans in this country that you'll make up reason to feel they are the same.

Get over yourself. You're gay, so what, no one cares but you.

But I'm straight. Not a gay thought in my mind. I just care about people, and don't simply discount their plights without a good reason like you do.



Obviously someone cares about gay people who's not gay. I'm the living proof.

Not everyone is a bigot. You're just an angry old man who hates minority groups but doesn't mind using one to oppress the others. Get over yourself. And your hate, while you're at it.

Lastly, I find it laughable that the MARKET RESEARCH POLL you provided in a psuedo-attempt to back your claims purports itself to be "nationwide" yet fails to mention clearly the number of people surveyed and their methodology.

reply to post by HairlessApe


See, I assumed you were gay and you assumed I'm hateful!

We're both asses!

I'm not discounting anything! I'm just saying they're not the same yet you seem hell bent on trying to make one believe they are so!

But seriously though, you're dead wrong. You're a straight dude and you're doing more to hurt the cause than you are helping it.

Originally posted by slowisfast
reply to post by HairlessApe

 

See, I assumed you were gay and you assumed I'm hateful!

We're both asses!

But seriously though, you're dead wrong.

You're a straight dude and you're doing more to hurt the cause than you are helping it.

edit on 1-7-2013 by slowisfast because: (no reason given)

Right. I should probably hop on the "gays aren't important" bandwagon with you. We can share our blatantly biased "research" papers with each other and play banjo while we secretly yearn to touch each others asses.

Originally posted by HairlessApe

Originally posted by slowisfast
reply to post by HairlessApe

 

See, I assumed you were gay and you assumed I'm hateful!

We're both asses!

But seriously though, you're dead wrong.

You're a straight dude and you're doing more to hurt the cause than you are helping it.

edit on 1-7-2013 by slowisfast because: (no reason given)

Right. I should probably hop on the "gays aren't important" bandwagon with you. We can share our blatantly biased "research" papers with each other and play banjo while we secretly yearn to touch each others asses.

Who said gays aren't important, Ape? I know I didn't.

You've made all sorts of assumptions and attributed all sorts of horrible things to me that I, most definitely, not say. Do you do this intentionally or is it just because you really don't have anything worthwhile to say? Either way it's a bad look and fairly obvious to anyone who took the time to read through this thread.

Originally posted by slowisfast

Originally posted by HairlessApe

Originally posted by slowisfast
reply to post by HairlessApe

 

See, I assumed you were gay and you assumed I'm hateful!

We're both asses!

But seriously though, you're dead wrong.

You're a straight dude and you're doing more to hurt the cause than you are helping it.

edit on 1-7-2013 by slowisfast because: (no reason given)

Right. I should probably hop on the "gays aren't important" bandwagon with you. We can share our blatantly biased "research" papers with each other and play banjo while we secretly yearn to touch each others asses.

Who said gays aren't important, Ape? I know I didn't.

You've made all sorts of assumptions and attributed all sorts of horrible things to me that I, most definitely, not say. Do you do this intentionally or is it just because you really don't have anything worthwhile to say? Either way it's a bad look and fairly obvious to anyone who took the time to read through this thread.

All you've given me to rebutt is claims without any backing. I can't argue someone who doesn't have an argument!

I'm merely countering your half-clever remarks with fully clever ones.