Spaceships of the Future: Visions of Interstellar Starship Travel

reply to post by zazzafrazz


Interesting but note we are still talking propulsion and kinetics when there has to be another way.
Though it has been talked down as not possible and only data has thus far been sent this way I envision a possible method using quantumne entanglement displacement.

Take a photon and split it deflecting the two synchronised photons in opposite direction's, they cover a distance of twice what it takes each photon to get to it's target so the overall distance covered is equivalent to 2e.

Place the package (Data at present or small potential charge with the possibility that we may one day gain sufficient understanding to use it on Mass) what happens to one half of the split photon causes the second half to be affected and since the photon is in two place so is it's entangled package so remove the package at the second half of the photon and you have displaced it at 2 times the relative speed of light and with a very low energy usage, no kinetics so no inertia and no pollution, it may require in a mass rich environment that there is an exchange between the two locality's rather than just a transfer but other than this no law of physics has actually been broken here.

Please feel free to pull it apart as usual but put your perceived understanding aside and think about it.

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
So many concepts so Why are we still using liquid rockets for space travel.

Because, at the moment, that is the best and most efficient way to get payloads into orbit.

Ion (not iron!!) engines simply don't have the thrust to get into orbit, although they are being used on spacecraft which are already in space. I forget the exact figures, but something like 85% of the spaceships fuel will be used in the first 20 minutes simply to get it off this rock. Once in space, things get a lot easier.

FYI: The Skylon craft you see in the OP is not a concept, but an actual real design. The engine has just passed initial testing with ESA and the rather ingenious design has been proven to work. Although Skylon is never meant to be an interplanetary ship, but rather a 100% re-usable and environmentally friendly (uses Hydrogen as the fuel) orbiter/space plane.

I just wonder about the next hundred or so years. Who says that we will need any SHIPS, Nuclear power etc...to travel between stars?
That is only based on the knowledge of our current time and understanding. In the future...who knows?

Originally posted by Im2keul
Cool concepts, however they kinda got a 60's vibe going on with the liquid boosters.
We should come up with something better if we ever want to go interstellar.

Pretty much. And the idea of riding a nuclear explosion shockwave seems a little impractical.

And, of course, who is going to cough up the money to build this stuff to fly to somewhere and do what, exactly?

So much cheaper to just build a really good virtual reality experience and pretend to fly to another star, rather than float in black space for years. Guess what the real trip will entail. That's right. Stay in your room and play video games in virtual reality.

reply to post by stumason


Get on google earth and look at the old Area 51, forget about alien saucers (though they can come in handy with an alien cup of tea) look at the thin dark lines, they my friend are disused and outdated tech that was used for cold war military satellite launches by using ground based acceleration rail's to project and object into orbit with minimal rocket activity and the old soviet surveillance systems and satellites would not detect the thermal plume as there was none in there downward observation, the hardened electronic packages can withstand incredible amounts of G force and a rail gun base launcher long ago superseded this for modern unmanned light package launches but there is still the need to use there motors for positional control and correction, this happens outside the atmosphere and is virtually undetectable, still remember when the yanks flew some stealth fighters over the UK and were somewhat put back when we were able to provide them with actual full flight data and had monitored them even though they thought we did not know they were here.

Its a step I suppose, and there are whole different directions you can go with space explorations. This stuff seems just to be near orbit base building, and considering we have only been to our neighboring satellites ie the moon if even that, and even that is debatable and is debated pretty often on ATS. I suppose you got to start somewhere, technology will change and such, the way we do things will likely change. But that does not mean we cant go ahead and do or try our best with what is at hand. If your waiting around for things to become so much more advanced, light driving from place to place, your likely to always be waiting.

In all I think maybe you all should start small and with the basic building blocks. And by that I mean, WTF are hairless monkeys doing in space to begin with? And especially when they as a species can barely coexist and thrive on another spaceship which is practically a Eden and tailored to them. By the other spaceship I mean earth, its a bit premature don't you think. And even if you succeed your just importing all your issues and problems into space and any colonies there in, the great majority of it is just as much running away from things as it is the entrepreneurial exploratory spirit. Doing it that way you will always be ever limping on in this human space race, always arguing and bickering over whats what and who's who importing problems just as much as your exporting dreams. It is rather illogical in many ways. But anyways and besides why is it always got to be a race? Its not like you got somewhere to really go, or a deadline, if there is a deadline its still someways away from now when our sun is going to be going haywire and engulf us all.

One thing however, those are not interstellar ships even at best. They and this thread is more like "visions of interplanetary spaceship travel." But very cool none the less.

Originally posted by HauntWok
There's something else missing in these concepts.

A nose shield.

When traveling anywhere near the speed of light, it's very important to have some sort of deflector shield. The most sound thing would be a large iron asteroid. Smashing into something going any reasonable fraction of the speed of light would be completely devastating to a craft. Even micrometeorites would be fatal going that fast.

best point of the thread the amount of crap floating around in space, hitting it at any sort of speed would be terrible for the ship and everyone on board in the middle of no where

Originally posted by jaws1975
If we are going to speculate on futuristic space travel, then I am going to speculate as to why we are not currently sending men back to the moon, or to Mars and beyond. There is a quarantine of Earth, we are still too primitive to be allowed out into space. With our warmongering mentality, if we were to find life on other planets in our own solar system or beyond, we would try to destroy them. Just look what we are still doing on this planet. We may have been allowed to go to the moon originally because it was somewhat harmless, and so that our controllers could see if we were going to turn the corner on our imperialistic ways. Sadly we have not, and until we have proven ourselves here on Earth we will not be going anywhere anytime soon.

We can only hope there are a superior intelligent peace loving ET race out there willing to shot down every trip we attempt out of our dustbin earth to colonies, were a disgrace

Humanity has a very long way to go and should never be aloud to leave this planet until its mature enough

Thankfully we don't have the technology or interest to plague the Galaxy yet

reply to post by TritonTaranis


Sadly the earth is under quarantine observation and there may have already been a very advanced previous civilisation, periodic culling of the population was stopped by another interest and they have a vested position in preventing the previous destruction from being repeated as the destroyer also targeted them and they are here to catch it in the act and track it back to it's origin.

Sentient life is extremely rare so the attack waged by one species of xenophobes on other sentience can never be allowed to go unpunished and must be prevented by all means possible,
Grand edict 4 of the standing galactic council overall in authority of the local cluster.

The men in black sightings and the subversion through economic political means leading to the internal stagnation of a sentient society is in clear breach of this edict and punitive measures have been passed before sometimes many ages after the initial interaction, when the breach of mandate has been detected and reported.

Very interesting! I'm in agreement with others. We probably need something better for interstellar travel.

Travel means that you go from A to B. Assuming A is Earth, where exactly is B? What location is worth visiting? So far there is no indication that there is anything interesting in the proximity of the Solar system.

Isn't that just a magical, awe inspiring sight?

Pictures from space which show a planet in motion - both in it's orbit and the clouds which waft within it's atmosphere. It's truly remarkable.

As interesting and exciting as recent neuroscience has been - and will be - a part of me holds this to be the most exciting scientific frontier lying ahead for mankind.

I really do hope that one day, hopefully before I die (I'm 27, average life expectancy is 80; could be 85 to 90 by 2070) space travel will be affordable enough for the middle class.

reply to post by mrkeen


The closest star known to earth observers is Proxima centurai at less than 4.4 ly and the next are Alpha and Beta centurai, these are sisters stars of sol though Proxima is a small red dwarf unlikely to have any notable planetary body's there is still the possibility of near neighbourhood failed stars and brown dwarfs that may hold interesting possibility's for the future of any human expansion, the current sci fi based idea that races only colonise stars is false as most likely extra solar system colonisation would be in these type of area's and the probability of extra stellar colonisation becomes a reality. of course there also remains the possibility of extra dimensional based physics and exotic means of travel that have not been discussed here.

The universe is big, a lot bigger than this huge but limited continuum, the future of humanity may depend on how it evolves next but a social and psychological evolution as well as a longer life cycle are given necessity's before humanity is ready to enter the galactic family for it's own sake.

reply to post by Sparta


Thank god someone noticed that post.

Here's the thing. If we are truly going for an interstellar journey, what you are going to need is a generational ship. One that will house at least 50,000 people. That way the genetic diversity would be enough to produce enough offspring to equal the eventual deaths of the crew.

You would also need a educational system in place to train those replacements in the various jobs that will be needed to be done.

The craft itself will have to basically be an engine, and a factory as well. And most of your time is going to have to be spent manufacturing goods and materials for the ship.

And that's all without the fuel.

Hydrogen is the most abundant fuel in the universe. The problem is, using it straight up is a waste of it's energy. So, in your ship, you are going to have to have a large collider. That way you have anti hydrogen to mix with hydrogen giving you a 100% fuel efficiency rate.

Of course you are also going to have the oxygen supply, not only are you going to have to have enough to mix into the atmosphere of the ship, but your going to have to have an extra supply to mix with hydrogen in order to make water. That is of course unless on your way out of the solar system you tow behind you a large comet or something to mine for water.

Then there's the seed for the plants your going to have to grow in masse in the main living quarters to give each of the 50,000 people enough food to live off of, plus being able to reseed. And the animals you are going to have to bring along with you for additional food, fuel, and other biomater (clothes come to mind)

So in essence you are going to be traveling the cosmos in a hollowed out meteor, spinning it for gravity, and trying hard to not run into anything bigger than you. Radar will be almost useless if you are traveling at a significant fraction of the speed of light as by the time the signal returned to your ship, you wouldn't have much time to avoid the object, and turning a ship of that mass going that fast would be quite the challenge.

reply to post by Sparta


British scientists have just announced a concept for a "deflector shield".

Also, if they ever solve the problem of getting the warp drive to actually work (works on paper, but they need tachyons or other exotic matter we cannot produce right now), this won't be an issue.

Originally posted by mrkeen
Travel means that you go from A to B. Assuming A is Earth, where exactly is B? What location is worth visiting? So far there is no indication that there is anything interesting in the proximity of the Solar system.

Oh c'mon, there is plenty to see an do in the Solar System alone, not to mention the hundreds of alien planets that have been discovered in nearby star systems.

Originally posted by HauntWok
Here's the thing. If we are truly going for an interstellar journey, what you are going to need is a generational ship. One that will house at least 50,000 people. That way the genetic diversity would be enough to produce enough offspring to equal the eventual deaths of the crew.

Considering the entire Human race bottlenecked at less than 2,000 individuals at some point in the past, you wouldn't need that many people.

Originally posted by HauntWok
Hydrogen is the most abundant fuel in the universe. The problem is, using it straight up is a waste of it's energy. So, in your ship, you are going to have to have a large collider. That way you have anti hydrogen to mix with hydrogen giving you a 100% fuel efficiency rate.

You wouldn't get 100% fuel efficiency just by colliding hydrogen with anti-hydrogen. Yes, you would turn all the mass into energy, but capturing that energy and making use of it is how you determine efficiency. Also, how are you going to make the anti-hydrogen? That takes energy too and a lot of it, in fact with current tech it takes far more energy to make anti-hydrogen than you could ever get out and make use of from any reaction.

Originally posted by HauntWok
Of course you are also going to have the oxygen supply, not only are you going to have to have enough to mix into the atmosphere of the ship, but your going to have to have an extra supply to mix with hydrogen in order to make water. That is of course unless on your way out of the solar system you tow behind you a large comet or something to mine for water.

No need for any of that. Just take lots of plants for the Oxygen and recycle all the water (or mine it from comets). In theory, with adequate power, you'd only ever need a dozen or so litres of water per person for the whole trip, as it would all be continually recycled.

Originally posted by HauntWok
Then there's the seed for the plants your going to have to grow in masse in the main living quarters to give each of the 50,000 people enough food to live off of, plus being able to reseed. And the animals you are going to have to bring along with you for additional food, fuel, and other biomater (clothes come to mind)

Any generational ship worth it's salt would have a hydroponics facility as well as some sort of large green area for recreation. They would never take animals, what is the point? Take genetic samples for seeding at the destination, but proteins for eating can be grown. There is no need to take a bunch of sheep and cows with you.

Besides, this is all moot really. Warp drive is a possibility within the next 100 years (the work at CERN I believe will move this along quite rapidly once they sort out their Standard model) and even now, scientists have got from needing 10 x the mass/energy of the Universe to make it work to just needing the mass/energy of a few hundred kilo's. All we need to make it work is to be able to produce exotic particles (that are already thought to exist in nature) and we're done.

reply to post by stumason


The nearest star to earth is 4.243 light years, which means that going the speed of light it would take 4.243 years just to get there. and that amount of time to get back. If we are going to the nearest habitable planet (GOD KNOWS) it's going to take longer to get there.

Originally posted by HauntWok
reply to post by stumason

 

The nearest star to earth is 4.243 light years, which means that going the speed of light it would take 4.243 years just to get there. and that amount of time to get back. If we are going to the nearest habitable planet (GOD KNOWS) it's going to take longer to get there.

Minus the invention of a working Warp drive, if we could go at (or near) to the speed of light then a generational ship would still not be required. To the people on the ship, the journey would only take a matter of weeks to them.

Granted, travelling in this manner without a warp bubble would need the deflector dish to work and even then, it only protects against micro-meteors and radiation. Large rocks would rip your spaceship a new one.

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People

Originally posted by swanne

Originally posted by Shiloh7
Fabulous ideas, but how do we get past the Van Allen belt without cooking ourselves?

Good point.

Hm, just brainstorming here, but here it is:
Doesn't the magnetic poles of the Earth provide a "hole" through which we could in theory travel safely?

edit on 1-7-2013 by swanne because: (no reason given)

Yes, they do.

Take the trajectory taken by the Apollo Moon missions, which was mostly through (or near to) the top or bottom "holes" in the belts. If you did that, the trip through the belts would be very quick. and radiation exposure would be kept to a relatively safe minimum.

edit on 7/1/2013 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)

how did the apollo rockets adjust course for the moon in the vacuum
of space after performing this initial evasive manoevre?

and wouldn't they have had to 'ride the torus' all the way to avoid the deadliness?

Originally posted by TopsyTurvyOne
how did the apollo rockets adjust course for the moon in the vacuum
of space after performing this initial evasive manoevre?

Er, with it's engines?

Here is a nice little image of the various stages of an Apollo launch.