Michael Hastings Car Crash Facts And Why I Don't Think He Was Murdered

Another thing that I think is noteworthy, about the newly released video, is that LAPD has not contacted Mercedes. Mercedes told the reporter that they were waiting to be contacted. Is that a call that will never happen?

So now it makes me wonder if there is any data from the recording devices. Or if said data holds any relevance at all.

That might suggest that they may have a conclusion as to what happened. They also might be waiting for the results of the toxicology and the autopsy to back up their conclusion.

Originally posted by ShadellacZumbrum
Another thing that I think is noteworthy, about the newly released video, is that LAPD has not contacted Mercedes. Mercedes told the reporter that they were waiting to be contacted. Is that a call that will never happen?

So now it makes me wonder if there is any data from the recording devices. Or if said data holds any relevance at all.

That might suggest that they may have a conclusion as to what happened. They also might be waiting for the results of the toxicology and the autopsy to back up their conclusion.

i can't believe how subjective you are being. You seem to not understand, if a drunk stunt driver had the pedal to the floor, and this crash happened, Mercedes would still be interested in what happened. Their cars are not supposed to do that short of driving into a gas station.

They don't even blow up if shot at, driving off cliffs, etc. It's not like the movies. Cars are not supposed to do that. We have a century of safety systems developed by the top engineering students who went into the career and continued that throughout their life.

This isn't the days of the 70s Pinto.

I have no problem accepting information that contradicts my suspicion of this not being on the level, but you actively look for ignorant excuses to explain anything away on this case.

reply to post by boncho


I am merely stating that it is highly unusual that there has been no collaboration between the 2 parties ( LAPD and Mercedes ). It is clear that if I were the manufacturer I would be all over this. It gives a bad name to the brand and when you are talking about a 5 Billion Dollar company that should mean something.

I was not trying to explain away anything. Only pointing out that the LAPD acts as if the information that Mercedes has is not important. What about the data that might have been recorded and possibly transmitted. Is that information Not worth something. I would think that it is and that is what is surprising. I would have suspected that there would have been an immediate collaboration between the 2 parties.

Do you suspect that Mercedes has talked with LAPD and are just not saying anything?

Originally posted by boncho
...Are you saying the news report is false. Do you have pictures of the crash and engine placement or is it in this thread? It's something I didn't notice before so I'm pretty eager to find out exactly where that engine and tranny was....

I am saying that the news report is false. (Not implying deceit - but error.)
The engine & tranny did not end up 150'-200' in the direction opposite to the momentum of the Mercedes.
It ended up resting on the east side of North Highland Avenue, in front of the house at the northeast corner of intersection of Clinton Street and North Highland Avenue...as can be seen in this photo from the LoudLabs video...

...I found a debunking of the engine placement, but the photo of the engine is close up, and the evidence used to prove its location is faulty as its using red paint on the sidewalk, when there is a clear number marker that should be in view but isn't.

You can verify the house location/address by the two oddly-slanted trees...
When inching up and down both sides of the street in Google Maps - Street View...this is the only place on that street/block with such a configuration of two-oddly-slanted trees (to include the light pole, etc, et al)...as shown in this pic' taken from Google Maps - Street View... (Likewise - you can see the red curb painting in both pics)



(*Note - the trees were two years younger in the 'Street View' photos*)

A little bit of info I found on the subject of remote manipulation of a vehicle via wireless services,
blog.webroot.com...
while I do not condone or advocate hacking, the fact is that the skills and tech are out there, and such an attack might not register on the 'black box' recorder's OEM software
www.forbes.com...
The LAPD may not be the real players, just pawns or not included in the scheme at all. Why would they go to such lengths to eliminate one reporter? Could it be, that a cabal, agency, institution, establishment, nation, etc. with the motive to do this would make it seem that it all was plain circumstance and freak odds? He was intoxicated, stuck floor mats, broken fuel line, and ejection of the most massive car parts. Not to mention the fire, which could render the body hard to identify with certainty and destroy evidence.

If it is all nebulous and vague it will never be traced to the true source and in the event it ever was connected to 'them', they would be able to dismiss it as an 'internet conspiracy'

I have a fairly important piece of information to add.

I called EMBRACE a little while ago.

I asked them if I could get some information on their system. Immediately they started asking my account # and I told them I didn't have one but I was interested in getting the system but I had some questions.

So they passed me to their registration department. The first thing they did was asked my account # and I told them the same thing. Then they asked what questions I had.

I told them that I had a copy of the manual and that I was wondering what information is transmitted on impact in the event of an accident. They told me they didn't know what I was talking about. I mentioned again that I had a copy of the manual and it clearly states that electronic data is recorded and it transmits in the event of an accident. So I asked again what data does it record? They said that it doesn't record any data. So I read it to them right out of the manual word for word.

The woman asked where I got the manual at because apparently someone had made some unauthorized changes.. . . Huh? . .. .

I told her that I downloaded it right off of the Mercedes web sight. Then she said Oh, .. that explains it, you probably downloaded it from a website that looked like it was Mercedes.

Now being really confused I gave her the web address. She tells me again that the system does not record any information. I tell her again that I read it to her right from the manual and she repeats that I have a bogus copy of the manual.

Then I said o.k. thanks and hung up.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but, I copied and pasted it right out of the manual that came right from the website. I know that I am not seeing things because I opened the manual and read it right to her.

So what gives?

What the hell gives?

I have the number if anyone wants to call but I am not going to post it here for fear of a TOC violation. So if anyone else wants to try send me a U2U.

reply to post by WanDash

I am saying that the news report is false. (Not implying deceit - but error.)
The engine & tranny did not end up 150'-200' in the direction opposite to the momentum of the Mercedes.
It ended up resting on the east side of North Highland Avenue, in front of the house at the northeast corner of intersection of Clinton Street and North Highland Avenue...as can be seen in this photo from the LoudLabs video.

Okay, I wasn't aware what direction he was travelling in. How was that determined by the way?


I am starting to wonder how the engine made it that distance no matter what. If the engine say, was blown off, fell out of the car and it continued skidding along for 100 ft, that seems possible.

How does the engine fly out of a car.

The OP mention 500 tons of someodd force. Fine. Do the math on it, no problem. The problem is even if the engine wanted to leave the car, it hit a tree.

Newton's Laws start applying here, for every action... so on and so forth. If he hit a specially designed wall that allowed for the engine to leave the car without interference, but is the engine not going to hit the tree as well?

I know the idea is that Newton sent the engine away from the car with the inertia from the cars speed, but I just can't wrap my head around the car losing it's engine, and looking the way it did after.

The hood of the car, in the crash photos, is not crumpled up like you normally see in an accident.

reply to post by ShadellacZumbrum


I don't know.. That's really weird.

reply to post by boncho


This is only a really rough guess.

It looks like the car slightly wrapped around to the right of the tree on impact. If you can see in the video. It looks like it hit head-on and then turned a little bit to the right.

It may have been enough to make and opening. But then, you lose some of that 500 plus tons of force. Couple that with the loss of force in breaking loose. If there was a way to find out the exact weight of the tranny and engine combined we might be able to calculate how far it traveled before it hit the ground and tumbled.

reply to post by boncho


I posted the manul in the thread so everyone could see what I was referencing.

Honestly I have a big damn problem with that.

Is that something that just changed recently?

It is black and white in the manual.

Found it!

Okay, here we have a 2012 Mercedes C250 in a crash test. What kind of crash test? This is by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety.

They are replecating partial collisions with items like trees, flag poles, etc.

Video @ 0:54

Originally posted by ShadellacZumbrum
reply to post by boncho

 

This is only a really rough guess.

It looks like the car slightly wrapped around to the right of the tree on impact. If you can see in the video. It looks like it hit head-on and then turned a little bit to the right.

It may have been enough to make and opening. But then, you lose some of that 500 plus tons of force. Couple that with the loss of force in breaking loose. If there was a way to find out the exact weight of the tranny and engine combined we might be able to calculate how far it traveled before it hit the ground and tumbled.

Cars are just not designed to do that though. They are not even designed to "bounce" off anything. They have very technical engineering elements inside them to absorb the crash. The designers do not want a large car pile up on the highway to become a game of bumper cars.

Think about it, imagine cars were designed so they just bounced off things and engines popped out.

I went over hours of crash video, regular crashes, indy car crashes, etc. I couldn't find any with engines popping out. And then we have this one, a crash test emulating partial hits with trees and flag poles, etc.

It just plain doesn't look like it's possible.

I have no problem if someone proves me wrong, I don't mind. After all, I'm a skeptic.

I admit I was wrong about knowing which direction he was travelling, and was thrown off by the news report. I am still wondering how it was determined which way he was driving. I'd like to see detailed pictures of skid marks, or anything to show how that conclusion was reached. But in any case, prove me wrong, I don't mind.

reply to post by boncho


There sure is allot of "Stuff" in that engine compartment that the engine would have had to go through.

reply to post by boncho


There are scrape marks just past the intersection of Melrose where he bottomed out comming through the intersection.

Wandash has a picture handy of that.

If the car were to impact the tree at a spot behind the engine compartment perpendicular to direction of travel with the right amount of force, the engine could be thrown away from the main mass of wreckage. It would however not be inline with the rest of the wreck.

I don't see that the car hitting any less than head on nor do I see any angular trajectory for that mass of German engineering... This is of course based on the photos shown without scales of measurement or other such scientific means of veracity.

reply to post by Redboxin


With the amount of force I had calculated in the OP there would have been more than enough to displace the engine tranny combined. Though I did my calculation based on the low side of the speed. If we could get an accurate measurement of the scrape marks then we would be able to determine the exact (or pretty damn close ) speed of the impact. That would result in a force greater than the 516 tons that I had calculated.

If we knew the weight of the engine and tranny I could calculate the loss of force to eject it on impact to include the distance it may have travel before it was acted on (by either gravity or any object in its path).

Originally posted by ShadellacZumbrum
reply to post by Redboxin

 

With the amount of force I had calculated in the OP there would have been more than enough to displace the engine tranny combined. Though I did my calculation based on the low side of the speed. If we could get an accurate measurement of the scrape marks then we would be able to determine the exact (or pretty damn close ) speed of the impact. That would result in a force greater than the 516 tons that I had calculated.

If we knew the weight of the engine and tranny I could calculate the loss of force to eject it on impact to include the distance it may have travel before it was acted on (by either gravity or any object in its path).

Any calculation you do would be inadequate because you would be unable to account for friction and drag on other items in and around the engine block and transmission. Not to mention the absorption from all the components that are designed to do just that. (Crumple Zone)

I assume you don't think it's a direct impact, because if you look below:



It's kind of hard for an engine to fly directly in the path of what is causing it to move right. A head on collision, it has nowhere to go. It would be thrown directly into the tree.

That leaves us with an off centre collision, which means the force you calculate is not accurate, as you have to take angle, and the beginning and final trajectory.

It's the difference of a car t-boning another one, and one clipping the back end. You can't tell me that both cars get hit with an equal amount of force can you?

Originally posted by ShadellacZumbrum
reply to post by blarged

 

Yes most definitely it has caught the attention of allot of people to include conspiracy theorists but most of them are sighting letters that were written, or the tales of a "BIG STORY", or even a car exploding which makes it look like the car was laden with explosives. Also I suspect even after the Facts come into light there are going to be those that believe without a doubt that they were lied to by the agencies issuing any such reports. Mostly because they think an alphabet agency is going to come in and tell them that they are going to change their story "Or Else".

Car's don't just explode like that. That arouses the initial suspicion. Then we hear he thought he was being watched and that he was working on something big. Then we hear he needed to disappear. Usually people want to disappear because they feel their lives are threatened. THEN HES DEAD! SURPRISE! When people are working on somthing big, possibly watched and trying to run away and then they explode, one tends to become a little suspicious. Again... if an agency killed him, you can be rest assured they are prepared to cover it up or lie about it. If they murdered him, you will not find this out through the official channels. They are not going to say "yes we killed him" Please be sensible. If you think they will admit that they murdered him, then you, sir, are an idiot.

Originally posted by ShadellacZumbrum
I expect most certainly that the toxicology results will not be tampered with because this is a high profile case. Those in charge know that there are allot of people pointing to conspiracy so they are going to take safeguards to prevent such a thing from happening.

High profile cases do not guarantee official government honesty. If you know about The Mafia, MK-Ultra, The Manhattan Project, Watergate, The Iran Contra Affair, and the JFK Assassination then you should already know this. If people are suspect of a conspiracy and there is one, then you can be sure they will be working overtime trying to cover this one up.

Originally posted by ShadellacZumbrum
With the telemetry of the vehicle the investigators will know if there was any outside control. Just remember that when computers connect to each other there are records kept of such events. So in the event that someone did try to take control of the vehicle it will show an IP that made the connection as well as at what time.

Can you prove this? How many remotely hacked cars have happened in the past that you know of anyway? This has happened before or something?

Originally posted by ShadellacZumbrum
When it comes to unusual circumstances most conspiracy minded people will automatically steer towards foul play. Primarily, because like I mentioned before,. .. . Conspiracies are built on a Lack of Facts.

Conspiracies come from suspicion that we are being lied to... or evidence pointing to an alternative theory, not just a lack of facts. 'Facts' can be altered through their official channels. Sounds like you're quoting some biased 'psychology of the conspiracy theorist' or something.

Originally posted by ShadellacZumbrum
Keep in mind that there have only ever been a handful of conspiracies that had turned out to be so. Some examples of those would include. .. The Mafia, MK-Ultra, The Manhattan Project, Watergate, The Iran Contra Affair, and the JFK Assassination among others.

Only a handful have been acknowledged as truthful. I'm sure they have plenty more secrets. JFK assassanation was not officialy acknowledged as a conspiracy. Though the facts don't add up and with enough research you can convince yourself that there certainly would seem to be a conspiracy.

Originally posted by ShadellacZumbrum
At this point we are going to have to set and wait for any results to be published before any more conclusions can be concocted.

I agree and honestly I kinda hope you're right on this one. Certainly don't want to add another in the long list of suspicious events of our modern history.

reply to post by boncho


Boncho,

I have to agree. The direct head-on collision makes a tough case and is highly suspect that the engine could even jump out like that. Like you I have watched many videos to try and figure it out. I have tried to apply mathematics to justify the possibilities that it could have happened. After all math can provide a scientific explanation for just about anything that happens on the planet.

After seeing the video you posted yesterday I had not realized how stuff was inside the engine compartment. There is allot that the engine would have had to go through just to make an exit from the vehicle. I know it seems literally impossible that the engine was ejected on impact given all of the information available. I myself have not seen a video that shows an engine ejecting on impact. But know this, if I find one you have better bet your ass that I will post it because that within itself will support my mathematical claim.

One thing that is really confusing is that everyone doesn't believe it but, I have seen no alternative suggestions as to how it may have happened. Does everyone think that maybe explosives played a role? I find it highly unlikely.
Here is an example why. .. . .. .

Take a 1/4" I-Beam for this example. In order to break it apart with explosives is nearly impossible, But, if you strategically place the explosives it is possible.

Look at the cross section of the I-Beam. It looks like an I. Now if you take a 1 lb. block of C-4 and place it on the left at the top of the I and place one at the bottom of the I and a 1 lb. block at the center of the I you form what looks like a backwards C. Now take just 1 - 1 lb. block and put it on the right side of the I in the center of the beam.

Now when this detonates it will actually twist the I-Beam breaking it apart with ease.

My point is that if explosives were used they would have had to be strategically placed in order to blow the engine out of the vehicle. In addition it would have taken several lbs. and there would have had to be 2 detonations. 1 to break it loose and 1 to eject it.

Honestly I wish there were easier answers. I know that my whole post has pi$$ed allot of people off because it seems like allot of it is made up. However, I have tried to apply deductive reasoning to the facts to formulate a realistic possibility.

reply to post by ShadellacZumbrum


This is the first post I've starred you on. Now I think we're getting somewhere.

My point is that if explosives were used they would have had to be strategically placed in order to blow the engine out of the vehicle. In addition it would have taken several lbs. and there would have had to be 2 detonations. 1 to break it loose and 1 to eject it.

I would like to give you the answers as I am sure others would too. If anyone says they know what happened just by analyzing the info out there they are full of it.

Sadly, sometimes we never know. Just like many questionable cases in the past.

I can be highly speculative, and say the accelerator was hacked, forcing the car to go top speed while an earlier planted device was planted to split the front of the car out sideways, so it would just look like an accident when found.

But we don't have any evidence to support that.

Simply because a normal crash does not look like a sufficient explanation, does not = "This is what happened, exactly like this."

I'm sure you can appreciate my reservations.

I personally don't need every answer, but as of right now, the answer that this is just a normal car accident isn't good enough for me. So I have that. And a "?". Maybe forever, probably forever.

What ever spin comes out on this story, with everything I've looked at, I'd probably need an actual video of the accident to believe it.