White House Study Finds Guns Save Lives (OOOPS!)

There are a number of good forums where this could fit, but I think Deconstructing Disinformation is appropriate.

You all remember that the ... *ahem* ... "current resident of the White House," as I refer to him, sent 12-Gauge Joe (Biden) off to dig up statistics to show that individual gun ownership is a terrifying scourge and a parlous danger to children and other living things. Well:

The report, ordered under one of President Obama’s 23 Executive Orders signed in the wake of the Sandy Hook incident, asked the Centers for Disease Control (CDC), the National Research Council and other federal agencies to identify the "most pressing problems in firearms violence."

To the surprise of the authors and those who would no doubt have used the report to further restrict access to personal defense firearms, the study found that gun ownership actually saves lives, and those who have a firearm at their disposal improve their chances of survival and reduce their chance of injury in the event they are confronted by a violent criminal:

Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year....

Up until this study became available, anti-gun politicians often cited figures that indicated that just 108,000 people a year used guns in self defense. The new study suggests that those numbers were off by over 2500%.

Read it and weep, GUN-GRABBERS:

SHTFplan.com [source]

I almost hate to get this debate started again (claimed the OP, while laughing up his sleeve)....

Bwahahahahaha! How did the report get out? The usual proceedure is to bury bad news and the messanger!

Originally posted by Magister
Bwahahahahaha! How did the report get out? The usual proceedure is to bury bad news and the messanger!

Through Blacklisted News and StoryLeak, of course.

(It's a prepublication draft from, I think, the Academy of Sciences.)

That is absolutely beautiful! This ongoing gun debate in our nation and the world has caused me a lot of trouble. I fully believe that the second amendment is here to protect us from our government and those who mean to do us harm, and ive found it deeply troubling that an administration which is supposedly Hyper progressive would ever try to pull the types of things ive seen this administration do. Every rant that the right wing pundits would go on about about how the left wanted to take your guns all of a sudden rang true and I really began to feel a hatred and heightened mistrust of my government. I don't know if that mistrust will ever get better.

reply to post by Latrodectus


Uh-oh. Careful there: If you can't trust your government, WE'RE GONNA HAVE SOME PROBLEMS.

reply to post by Latrodectus


Here's the thing, though: Combine "regulatory capture" and Corporatism with progressivism, and you end up with Fascism. They only want to spy on us so that they can anticipate our every action, thought, and need, so that Big Gov can make it all better by involving themselves in every facet of our lives. Cradle to grave.

You surely understand that progressivism strives to remove all tripping hazards and sharp objects from our lives because we're such clumsy and heedless children. They're even passing laws now to rid the world of bullies.

What could possibly go wrong?

I like the way you think EXCT2! That video bit there is maddening I swear!

It's a shame, and a bit funny that a bunch of farm working slave owning politicians could see things clearly, and wrote these things into the very foundation of our country. Yet a couple of hundred years later the white house has to spend millions of dollars and countless researchers months of effort and time just to prove those old wig wearing curmudgeons were right all along.

Who'd of thought?

In light of these findings i feel it's only right and proper that the government now distributes its weapons and ammo stockpiles to the people, and issue every adult a free firearm to defend themselves with.

Okay, this is officially my favorite thread of the day, and quite possibly of the month.

Thank you OP, for putting this gem up.

reply to post by Ex_CT2


Guns save lives?

That's strange...

Last time I checked, guns ended lives.

How brainwashed are you people?

The old saying goes that God made men, but Sam Colt made them equal.

equal arms equal rights. Got to love equality right?

Originally posted by applesthateatpeople
reply to post by Ex_CT2

 

Guns save lives?

That's strange...

Last time I checked, guns ended lives.

How brainwashed are you people?

Oh, horrendously brainwashed. You should hear some of our ideas about individual liberty and the evils of Big Government. It would singe your ears....

I actually believe in gun rights (even though I don't own any) and in education, training, etc. However, your stats and the OP I don't believe.

This debate is pushed hard on both sides, both manipulating statistics as they see fit.


While you can argue people are safer from criminals if everyone has a gun, you can just as easily argue the criminals would be less dangerous if they don't have such easy access to guns.





Canada has been doing stories on US arms being diverted illegally across the border to arm their criminals. And we are all familiar with the Fast & Furious debacle. Mexico's war is being waged with US guns.

When there is a conflict in Africa over resources, it's common to flood those areas and corporations pay off warlords and mercenaries and arm them to the teeth with AK47s.

If no AKs found their way there the conflicts wouldn't be nearly as devastating.




So while I can appreciate people being adamant about their second amendment rights, the argument that more guns = less killings seems nonsensical.

If there were no guns, and by none, I mean eliminating the manufacture and sale, there would be hardly any to be diverted illegally. However, the borders of the world are more connected than ever, and I don't see this as a realistic possibility.

I would state though, that most of the stats on the issue are absurd to say the least.

Originally posted by Ex_CT2

Originally posted by applesthateatpeople
reply to post by Ex_CT2

 

Guns save lives?

That's strange...

Last time I checked, guns ended lives.

How brainwashed are you people?

Oh, horrendously brainwashed. You should hear some of our ideas about individual liberty and the evils of Big Government. It would singe your ears....

Haha.

...and what would that have to do with the danger of guns?

It is possible to be pro-second amendment and anti-stupidity at the same time.

So, again...

How brainwashed are you?

Guns, guns, guns

Guns, guns, guns

ETA:

Liberty is good because it gives me the right to express how meaningless guns are.

If everyone owns a gun...



How do you think that will end?

Peace?

LMAO

Originally posted by applesthateatpeople

Originally posted by Ex_CT2

Originally posted by applesthateatpeople
reply to post by Ex_CT2

 

Guns save lives?

That's strange...

Last time I checked, guns ended lives.

How brainwashed are you people?

Oh, horrendously brainwashed. You should hear some of our ideas about individual liberty and the evils of Big Government. It would singe your ears....

Haha.

...and what would that have to do with the danger of guns?

It is possible to be pro-second amendment and anti-stupidity at the same time.

So, again...

How brainwashed are you?

Guns, guns, guns

Guns, guns, guns

ETA:

Liberty is good because it gives me the right to express how meaningless guns are.

If everyone owns a gun...



How do you think that will end?

Peace?

LMAO

edit on 30-6-2013 by applesthateatpeople because: (no reason given)

You asked me how brainwashed we are; you didn't specify it had to be about guns.

But to answer your question with another question: Suppose only government had guns. How do you think that will end?

Ain't nobody on this planet happy with the way things are--except for those bloodsuckers at the root cause of the problems. When they give up, I'll give up....

reply to post by boncho


I won't argue about the use and abuse of statistics. I do think, though, that we're in an unfair fight and that the stats are more favorable to the pro-2nd Amendment arguments than the anti-. So I'll leave it at that....

reply to post by applesthateatpeople


Yes. Guns save lives, probably nearly as often, outside of a battlefield, as they take them.

I'm, along with the gentleman in question, are living proof of that. He was standing on my porch with his little sledge hammer peering in through my window... I showed him the handgun I keep in the desk for just such occasions... He turned whiter than he already was, and left. Alive, I'll have you know. No one got hurt, both parties are still alive last I heard...

reply to post by seagull


Great illustrative example, seagull. Thanks....

reply to post by boncho


You can eliminate the 'legal/regulated' manufacture and sale of firearms all day long, but you'll still have this.

en.wikipedia.org...

A thousand guns a day from this one village alone.

www.youtube.com...

Ban the 'legal' right to own a firearm, and there will still be a black market. Doesn't matter where you are in the world. Goes right back to the saying... "Outlaw guns, and only outlaws will have guns".