Predetermination and God's Sovereignty

reply to post by HarryTZ


Here's the way I see the pre-destination, free will and sin paradigm. The music has already been selected. Our parents taught us their dance, but ultimately, we all do our own dance, to the music that was already chosen. Some of us are better dancers than others.

This dance is an example. It's the equivalent to sin:

If you think you are predetermined to go to hell, prove the universe wrong, repent and put your trust in the Savior before it is too late.

Originally posted by kingofmd
If you think you are predetermined to go to hell, prove the universe wrong, repent and put your trust in the Savior before it is too late.

But I don't think that. I'm not a Christian.

reply to post by HarryTZ


The flip side of that coin is that everything we WANT to believe doesn't make it the truth either.

reply to post by Deetermined


What do you mean?

reply to post by HarryTZ


Meaning that the people who claim that hell is only for people who believe one exists, isn't the truth.

There are things that exist, like spirits and demons, whether one wants to believe in them or not.

reply to post by Deetermined


Same applies to you. You're not above logic because you believe in the Christian god.

Hell is just a belief, whether you want to accept it or not.

reply to post by HarryTZ


Based on your logic, if you don't believe in evil, it must not exist either.

reply to post by Deetermined


Well... yea. Good and evil are subjective.
We can use Hitler as an example. Most of the world now considers him an evil man, right? I mean, he did kill over 6 million people. But do you really think that, in Hitler's mind, what he was doing was evil? No, and in fact, he thought he was doing humanity a favor. He genuinely thought he was helping.

reply to post by HarryTZ


Now think about what you just said.

Just because Hitler didn't think he was evil, did that make him not evil?

reply to post by Deetermined


Like I said, morals are subjective.
Personally, I don't think any of us are equipped to judge a man like Hitler (or anyone else) for anything, whether we see it is 'good' or 'bad'. We just need to be compassionate to those... let us call them... misguided souls. Of course, 'misguided' is also subjective, but considering that humanity as a whole desires peace, joy and happiness, than Hitler was probably misguided.

reply to post by HarryTZ


yes, i am aware it is not all black and white, thats why i said for him or against him or whatever you want. the "or what ever you want" part makes your reply to my reply unnessecary

reply to post by jmdewey60


i hope you are not refering to the post i made, you are the second one to only take the first part of that, i also said or whatever you want. its free will you dont have to choose anything, but that in itself would be a choice

reply to post by veritasmortis


Okay. But am I still going to Hell?

reply to post by HarryTZ


lol, i guess if you have to ask.................

reply to post by veritasmortis


Well then hopefully I'm right and you're wrong and there is no Hell

Originally posted by smithjustinb
People that go to hell go there because they want to. When they get there (if there is such a thing), they probably dont.regret it. Hell is a conscious choice of preference.

Soooo, it's heaven to them?

reply to post by jiggerj


jiggerj - www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by veritasmortis

i hope you are not refering to the post i made, you are the second one to only take the first part of that, i also said or whatever you want. its free will you dont have to choose anything, but that in itself would be a choice

I was, but only in relation to why the other person was agreeing or whatever, and only had to do with what it might mean to "be for" God.
I mean, is God telling him to do something in particular?

Originally posted by HarryTZ
reply to post by jiggerj

 

jiggerj - www.abovetopsecret.com...

I'm too burned out to get deep into anything today. This working for a living is quite exhausting. At 58 years old, my job is the equivalent of jogging over 2 miles on my hands everyday.

To jump on topic here, THIS life is my hell. Anything after will be a breeze.