The Issue of Misandry – 21st Century Social Conspiracy

reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee


You mentioned politics and media owners, not the actual behavior of those media companies or political legislation.

I've shown above in my OP very real examples of how men are at a disadvantage in a variety of places, the most damaging of them being how we are portrayed in popular culture.

You disagree with those points?

~Tenth

Originally posted by madmac5150
When was the last time that a man and potential future father was able to legally block a woman from aborting their unborn child? The woman has the option as a matter of "choice" to end the pregnancy. The father has no rights to save the unborn child's life, even though it "takes two to tango"... and he is the parent as well...

Yes well the reason they cant do that is because its wrong.

Men simply dont have rights on the abortion issue, that's not misandry, that's because 9 months of pregnancy involves the woman and not the man.

Men shouldnt be calling the shots if they aint carrying the baby.

It shouldnt even up for debate.

reply to post by SearchLightsInc

Yes well the reason they cant do that is because its wrong.

Absolute NONSENSE!

Let's take a look at this situation.

Me and my wife decide we are going to try and have children. We both agree that's what we want.

She gets pregnant, gets cold feet and decides to terminate the pregnancy. It's NOT ok for the father to not have an equal say in the birth of his child that SHE agreed to have.

Even in instances where pregnancies were not planned, men should have JUST has much of a say in the termination of their own blood as the woman does.

The fact that some people think women hold more importance in this matter shows exactly the kind of discrimination men face. It's not bad enough we can't decided when are babies are going to be killed, but we'll most likely loose custody on a technicality and be forced to pay child support to support the child's MOTHER as opposed to the child himself.

~Tenth

reply to post by SearchLightsInc


It is wrong for the father to try to protect his offspring from having scissors thrust into its spine, severing the spinal cord and murdering the child. Horribly wrong.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee

 

You mentioned politics and media owners, not the actual behavior of those media companies or political legislation.

I've shown above in my OP very real examples of how men are at a disadvantage in a variety of places, the most damaging of them being how we are portrayed in popular culture.

You disagree with those points?

~Tenth

I don't think listing three sitcoms is a very strong case for Misandry in the entertainment industry, I think it merely lists three programs that use lazy jokes, written by most male writers.. actually, did you know that the vast majority of working entertainment writers registered with the WGA are male?

I think a better barometer would be something like the women that received so many disgusting comments for suggesting that there is sexism in stand up comedy. Google it, I dont even want to post the story because the comments are truly horrible.

How about the military policy that states that a woman who was raped can be tried and discharged for Adultery?

Are there some messed up laws? Yes. Do they paint a greater picture of misandry? When the vast majority of power in the United States is held by men, I don't really see where misandry is a problem.. at all.

I think I should expand on my thougts a little, first off, let me just say that I agree with the posters that thinks there is inequality on both sides of the fence, women are probably still treated badly in some ways, but I think the difference is in how much exposure the inequality gets.
The sentiments expressed in this thread is pretty rare but I think I have noticed an increase in these types of opinions these last years, or it might just be a subjective and faulty observation.

Weirdly enough, I also agree with CaticusMaximus' opinion that our world has been in a 'masculine phase' that has permeated most of the worlds cultures for hundreds if not thousands of years already, and that things are slowly changing, but I don't think that the movement the 'establishment' is pushing is it, I think it's meant to be one of their many tools to mentally and physically enslave us.
The real change I'm sensing is not the superficial kind, it is of a spiritual nature, the integration of feminine and masculine qualities, yin & yang, the kind of society I'm envisioning would be more like the society of nature peoples/shamanic societies.

By the way, thanks for the applause, first one I got, made my day!

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Ive read your OP with an open mind and that caption about the twilight mom's rings true. However, i am from the UK and i would not say that society over here has developed a "hatred for men"

They have not had any rights removed from them. They are not barred from education, pubs, sports or promoted as sex objects on page 3 newspapers. The media doesnt make a habit of making your average man out to be stupid or be in need of a wife/gf to guide him through every day life.

Onto male jobs.
Since the economy "evolved" into a service based industry (Rather than one based on manufacturing) there has absolutely been a decline in masculine roles in society. Thatcher destroyed many traditional male dominated professions such as Coal mining, Ship building, steel working and manufacturing. I feel that many men were emasculated in this process as for the first time in their lives they couldn't look after the families they had created. The dismantling of these industries was done purely in profit so the rich could get richer.

The service based industry seems gender neutral - No gender is seen as better equipped to do tertiary sector jobs. However, men still dominate manual skilled jobs such as Bricklaying, Plumbing, Electrician etc.

So again, things have changed but i dont think men are suffering purposely at the hands of a society that "hates" them. The economy certainly isnt a fan of construction these days, but that's to be expected in a "recession" ?

Roles models.
We have football players who are hugely famous, getting into the papers for cheating on their wives/gf's, getting into drunken fights on their nights out, behaving like spoilt brats in general. Obviously not a good role model for anyone.

But its not men are living in a society with a glass celing, the prime minister is male, parliament in general is still dominated by men, law is dominated by men, the army is dominated by men.

I just dont honestly feel that your OP holds much water. I dont mean it disrespectfully, im just unconvinced that "something needs to be done"

I did not read all the replies (I apologize, I just got off work, I am exhausted and my eyes can't focus any better than my mind right now), but I enjoyed the OP. I like your approach and your way of expressing yourself.

I also agree- I am perhaps a bit less exposed to the current trend of misandry, being in Europe, but when in the US I am struck by it. It always seems to me to be just the collective consciousness swinging the pendalum the other way to compensate for the imbalance that has existed for a long time there. But I would point out that many men relate to this movement- meaning they too, would like to focus more and experience their feminine side!

In the same way I think women contributed to the extreme value upon masculinity along with the men for a while- because they too wanted to experience their masculine side. That starts with observing it outside and then being it.

In the country I currently live in, women are highly valued; femininity is highly valued. Most men find it not so bad to be the less dominant one, to live out their masculine traits, but sort of lean on the woman to carry the responsibility. Gosh, half the couples we know, the husband is driving a sports car his wife bought for him, and she works twice as hard! There are benefits too.

But in the end, anyone can live their life as they wish- which apparently you and your partner have been able to do!

reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee


Actually, public sector statistics in a lot of countries, including mine show that women outpace men in public sector employment.

Source

Woman also account for roughly 45 to 49 percent of leadership roles within the public sector.

Source PDF

Considering most legislation and policy is written at the middle level and then parroted at the top, it's safe to say that women have just as much a say in the creation of legislation, as well as the passing of legislation through special interest feminism groups.

~Tenth

reply to post by SearchLightsInc

I just dont honestly feel that your OP holds much water. I dont mean it disrespectfully, im just unconvinced that "something needs to be done"

My OP had the goal of opening the conversation, not changing anything other than people's perception of how things are.

But its not men are living in a society with a glass celing, the prime minister is male, parliament in general is still dominated by men, law is dominated by men, the army is dominated by men.

See my above post about women in middle management and leadership positions, they have more of a say that you would think.

Influence in media and politics is not determined by those who speak to the media and make headlines, the vast majority of the work and decisions made are by staff of those people, who almost 50/50 down the gender line.

See the PDF, page 11 figure 5. 66% of public sector positions are filled by women.

~Tenth

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee

 

Actually, public sector statistics in a lot of countries, including mine show that women outpace men in employment.

Source

Woman also account for roughly 45 to 49 percent of leadership roles within the public sector.

Source PDF

Considering most legislation and policy is written at the middle level and then parroted at the top, it's safe to say that women have just as much a say in the creation of legislation, as well as the passing of legislation through special interest feminism groups.

~Tenth

edit on 6/26/2013 by tothetenthpower because: (no reason given)

So which is it, there is systematic cultural misandry, or men and women are equally represented in both the public and private sectors and within those two areas men and women have certain (mostly archaic) laws skewed either in favor of or against a certain demographic of your choosing?

reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee

So which is it, there is systematic cultural misandry, or men and women are equally represented in both the public and private sectors and within those two areas men and women have certain (mostly archaic) laws skewed either in favor of or against a certain demographic of your choosing?

It's neither. The point I was making is that women don't have it as bad as the media claims they do in 1st world nations like ours. Things are quickly becoming very equal in employment, political influence and wages.

So the argument that men still control everything isn't really true now is it? Which is why it's not a good argument to use against the idea that Misandry exists in our culture and nobody wants to talk about it.

~Tenth

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc


Yes well the reason they cant do that is because its wrong.

Men simply dont have rights on the abortion issue, that's not misandry, that's because 9 months of pregnancy involves the woman and not the man.

Men shouldnt be calling the shots if they aint carrying the baby.

It shouldnt even up for debate.

I disagree. My brother was engaged to be married, and he and his fiancée decided to get the baby started right away. At the last moment she got cold feet, called off the marriage and aborted the baby.

That is just BS. She had made a choice once, and if she changed her mind, then she could have given up custody and let him keep it. But the way we make men pay child support, holding them responsible for their choice of act, it is not fair that a woman is NOT responsible for her choices of act! If she chose to be pregnant, she should have to accept the responsibilities for that choice.

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee
So which is it, there is systematic cultural misandry, or men and women are equally represented in both the public and private sectors and within those two areas men and women have certain (mostly archaic) laws skewed either in favor of or against a certain demographic of your choosing?

I think you missed my previous post:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

You'll note that I mentioned that those in power, male or female, have no care for men. No print in that puppy. Because one runs something doesn't mean that they care for their own. Check any government. Whoops, forgot their "own". Powermongers. That has no sex.

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
Onto male jobs.
Since the economy "evolved" into a service based industry (Rather than one based on manufacturing) there has absolutely been a decline in masculine roles in society. Thatcher destroyed many traditional male dominated professions such as Coal mining, Ship building, steel working and manufacturing. I feel that many men were emasculated in this process as for the first time in their lives they couldn't look after the families they had created. The dismantling of these industries was done purely in profit so the rich could get richer.

The service based industry seems gender neutral - No gender is seen as better equipped to do tertiary sector jobs. However, men still dominate manual skilled jobs such as Bricklaying, Plumbing, Electrician etc.

So again, things have changed but i dont think men are suffering purposely at the hands of a society that "hates" them. The economy certainly isnt a fan of construction these days, but that's to be expected in a "recession" ?

Excellent post and points SearchLightsInc. I wonder, based on Bluesma's post and yours, whether the situation is far more different in the UK and rest of Europe than it is in the States, or whether there is simply greater sensitivity to the changes there.

I don't watch the shows that the OP refers to, but thinking about UK media, it seems that we have gone through more of a reversal of that situation. Programmes like Eastenders, Corrie, even Emerdale, used to be rife with all powerful matriarchs, those seem to be somewhat a thing of the past now.

I wonder how much of this idea of 'Misandry' is lost on us because Britain, and in Bluesma's case, France, are largely secular countries?

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by SearchLightsInc

 

Yes well the reason they cant do that is because its wrong.

Absolute NONSENSE!

Let's take a look at this situation.

Me and my wife decide we are going to try and have children. We both agree that's what we want.

She gets pregnant, gets cold feet and decides to terminate the pregnancy. It's NOT ok for the father to not have an equal say in the birth of his child that SHE agreed to have.

Are you kidding me? That's like saying she has the right to sue him if she does fall pregnant accidently!

Even in instances where pregnancies were not planned, men should have JUST has much of a say in the termination of their own blood as the woman does.

Not at all! Do you have ANY IDEA how much the female body goes through and the last implications that can occur when a women goes through 9 months of pregnancy and labour!?

The fact that some people think women hold more importance in this matter shows exactly the kind of discrimination men face.

And im sure if women were forcing men to get vasectomies you'd have a problem with that? Yet you seem perfectly at ease for men to start dictating to women what's going on with their reproductive organs!

It's not bad enough we can't decided when are babies are going to be killed, but we'll most likely loose custody on a technicality and be forced to pay child support to support the child's MOTHER as opposed to the child himself.

Custody battles a whole other ball game to abortion rights. Yes, i do feel men are hard done by in the courts, but in matters regarding a woman's right to terminate pregnancy.

The entire idea that a man has legal rights over an unborn baby is ABSURD.

those in favour completely disregard the fact that the mother is a human being and she has rights over her own body. The cheek that people would even suggest that a woman "does as she's told" so that a couple can come to a "satisfactory" agreement is just... sexist. Its absolutely sexist to insist a man have some sort of control over a woman's reproductive organs. Its such a scary thought that people would push for this type of legislation.

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
Onto male jobs.
Since the economy "evolved" into a service based industry (Rather than one based on manufacturing) there has absolutely been a decline in masculine roles in society. Thatcher destroyed many traditional male dominated professions such as Coal mining, Ship building, steel working and manufacturing. I feel that many men were emasculated in this process as for the first time in their lives they couldn't look after the families they had created. The dismantling of these industries was done purely in profit so the rich could get richer.

The service based industry seems gender neutral - No gender is seen as better equipped to do tertiary sector jobs. However, men still dominate manual skilled jobs such as Bricklaying, Plumbing, Electrician etc.

So again, things have changed but i dont think men are suffering purposely at the hands of a society that "hates" them. The economy certainly isnt a fan of construction these days, but that's to be expected in a "recession" ?

Excellent post and points SearchLightsInc. I wonder, based on Bluesma's post and yours, whether the situation is far more different in the UK and rest of Europe than it is in the States, or whether there is simply greater sensitivity to the changes there.

I don't watch the shows that the OP refers to, but thinking about UK media, it seems that we have gone through more of a reversal of that situation. Programmes like Eastenders, Corrie, even Emerdale, used to be rife with all powerful matriarchs, those seem to be somewhat a thing of the past now.

I wonder how much of this idea of 'Misandry' is lost on us because Britain, and in Bluesma's case, France, are largely secular countries?

Indeed, as ive said i can only speak for the country i live in, maybe the media is just that bad in the USA? Ive never been there so i cant judge lol

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee
So which is it, there is systematic cultural misandry, or men and women are equally represented in both the public and private sectors and within those two areas men and women have certain (mostly archaic) laws skewed either in favor of or against a certain demographic of your choosing?

I think you missed my previous post:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

You'll note that I mentioned that those in power, male or female, have no care for men. No print in that puppy. Because one runs something doesn't mean that they care for their own. Check any government. Whoops, forgot their "own". Powermongers. That has no sex.

Not having a care for man and misandry are completely different. Not having a care for African Americans and making rules specifically laid out to harm them are completely different. Not caring for religion and making laws against religions are different.

Originally posted by intrepid

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Let's please not turn this into a rehash of Roe vs Wade. That ship has sailed. Discussing it here clouds the whole topic to a non-issue.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

edit on 26-6-2013 by intrepid because: (no reason given)

Noted. Sorry!