Hear 100% Truth About The Zimmerman Case

reply to post by butcherguy

You know, like run away when you have done nothing wrong.

Can't imagine why anyone would run away from a stranger watching them, and flagging them down, while armed.... I'd be more shocked if he DIDN'T! (depending on the actual details).

Originally posted by Gazrok
reply to post by butcherguy

 

You know, like run away when you have done nothing wrong.

Can't imagine why anyone would run away from a stranger watching them, and flagging them down, while armed....

I'd be more shocked if he DIDN'T! (depending on the actual details).

Did Trayvon know that he was armed? I have seen this written several times in the thread, that he was scared because he was being followed by an armed man.

Would you get into a fist fight with an armed man if you were aware that he was armed?

Or would you just run? Run to the home you were staying at (because your mom threw you out of her home) that wasn't very far away?

OP makes a lot of sense. If you are an overweight suburban cowboy with no ability to prevent or diffuse a physical situation, then don't engage as if you are the neighborhood watch hero. Don't confront someone with no game plan to speak of other than pulling out your gun and firing.

To the idiots who still want to defend poor little georgie and believe he was just trying to keep the streets safe and was picked out and viciously beaten before resorting to what he had to do (murdering a kid which was avoidable if George had a sense of judgement, or had the qualifications (basic physical fitness, basic self defense training) to put himself in charge of keeping the community safe, think about this:

He was in a car. Trayvon was on foot. Obviously Trayvon was of no danger to George and did not run up to his car and pull his fat ass out of the drivers side window. George would have had to have initiated the contact between them by getting out of his car and coming towards him. It is established George was watching him while still in his car. While he was hawking Trayvon he was jumping to all sorts of conclusions he had no reason nor authority to arrive at. The police dispatcher even told him to stay his fat pedestrian ass in his car.

When I was 16 if some strange man was slowly following me in a car for no reason and then got out to confront me, for no reason, and wasn't going to leave me alone, I would have felt threatened. I would have defended myself . I would have beaten him with my fists, for posing a direct threat to me. Maybe Trayvon should have apologized for being a black kid wearing a sweater and presented George with a set of handcuffs and asked to be placed under citizens arrest by him until he could legally clear himself in a court of george and prove he was merely getting snacks.

How many people here have seen the pictures of George Zimmermans "after the beating" photos showcasing his injuries? The little scrapes on the head, the scuffed nose, etc. Out of the people who believe those scratches indicate a fight for your life where shooting to kill is the only option, how many of you have ever been in a fight? Do you know how much the head typically bleeds when cut? A LOT more than you'd expect. The blood marks on his head from "having his head bashed into the concrete" resemble the little streaks you'd see from popping a big pimple.

This whole thing is common sense. It's only about race if you're a racist. I will be sick if this murderer is let off.

reply to post by LizardSlicks

I'm surprised the prosecution hasn't subpoenaed you.

The way you talk, you must have been there.

Originally posted by butcherguy
Or would you just run? Run to the home you were staying at (because your mom threw you out of her home) that wasn't very far away?

Well since the living arrangement between him and his mother didn't work out, it's entirely understandable that George created a situation and killed him with a gun. Irrelevant. A cheap little trick you slip in to attempt to portray this dead teenager as someone who was just bound to be killed. Do you know the intimate details or even the circumstances of him no longer living with his mother? Were you aware it's not all that uncommon for a teenage boy to be difficult for a mother to handle? Not reason enough to give a stranger the right to shoot and kill him. Did George do it because Trayvon said something disrespectful to his mother and he loves moms?

I know, I know, my ability to take the pieces of information that have been coming out from both sides for months now and put together a realistic sequence of events is mind blowing. One may even think I have lived in reality before.

reply to post by LizardSlicks

A cheap little trick you slip in to attempt to portray this dead teenager as someone who was just bound to be killed.

Just like so many have been doing in this thread, at least mine is accurate.

At least I didn't post the images from his facebook page and references to drug use, theft and fighting.... eh?

Well since the living arrangement between him and his mother didn't work out

Didn't work out?
Actually, she did it because she couldn't handle him any more. He was having disciplinary problems in school, and she wanted him living elsewhere.

Couldn't help but notice that you quoted me, but didn't want to answer the question.
If you were scared of some creepy guy... that was armed, would you dare to fist-fight with him, or would you run away... away to the home that you were living at that was very close by?

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by NaturalDizaster

 

My intention was to prove through logical discourse and perhaps some Platonic style argument that its never ok to draw a loaded firearm and blow a kids life away because your getting scraped in a fist fight which you initiated.

There is zero evidence that Zimmerman initiated a fistfight.

Unless you have found some that hasn't been brought out yet.

Following someone to the point of chasing them down will make a person feel threatened. Zimmerman had no right to do any of this because he made himself a neighborhood watchman nobody gave him the job. Now if I were to stop you walking down the street and started demanding answers from you what would you reaction be?

I think Treyvon Martin was a thug.
I think George Zimmerman is a wanna be cop.
I think Mr. Zimmerman followed and confronted Mr. Martin. (despite being advised to do otherwise)
- This is where "Stand your ground" should be disqualified as a defense.....
I think Mr. Zimmerman then killed Mr. Martin.
- However, since the "stand your ground" law is extremely vague, by the LETTER of the law, it could be argued he was justified in the shooting.
I think Mr. Zimmerman will be acquitted.
I think there will be riots in predominantly African American neighborhoods once this verdict is public.
I think the Police will expect this, and be prepared.

reply to post by butcherguy

But don't listen to me with my facts, I am just a 'drama queen'.

Oh man! When I called someone a "drama queen", I wasn't referring to you, okay? I don't think you are a drama queen, okay?

This reminds me of one of those funnies on the "I'm bored" thread.

How to start an argument on the internet.

Post an opinion.

Wait.

bye the bye, I think he'll either be acquitted, or charged with a lesser offense. But I still think a reasonable person could have been in the same circumstances, and handled it in such a way that no one was hurt, much less killed.

Now are you going to get ticked off that I have sorta called Zimmerman "unreasonable"? Because I have.

Zimmerman did not behave in a way that was congruent with reason. imho.

That is my opinion.

Originally posted by Gazrok
I think Treyvon Martin was a thug.
I think George Zimmerman is a wanna be cop.
I think Mr. Zimmerman followed and confronted Mr. Martin. (despite being advised to do otherwise)
- This is where "Stand your ground" should be disqualified as a defense.....
I think Mr. Zimmerman then killed Mr. Martin.
- However, since the "stand your ground" law is extremely vague, by the LETTER of the law, it could be argued he was justified in the shooting.
I think Mr. Zimmerman will be acquitted.
I think there will be riots in predominantly African American neighborhoods once this verdict is public.
I think the Police will expect this, and be prepared.

This is my feeling. This is a race riot waiting to happen, and the media is gonna feed this frenzy and then sit back and enjoy reporting on it.

We are being divided by race, and turned against each other. I'm surprised that so many people are allowing themselves to be led into this, to a very bad place.

I have my gut feelings about this case, but because I wasn't there, and I DO NOT KNOW all the facts, I will refrain from commenting in that regard.

I only pray that people not use this as an excuse to riot, attack others who's skin is a different color, or tear up a city, light things on fire and loot stores.

For reference, D'amato died when Tyson was only 19. This picture is probably when he was a lot younger. There's a video below of when Tyson was only 16.

Throughout his childhood, Tyson lived in and around high-crime neighborhoods. According to an interview in Details, his first fight was with a bigger youth who had pulled the head off one of Tyson's pigeons.[12]

Tyson was repeatedly caught committing petty crimes and fighting those who ridiculed his high-pitched voice and lisp. By the age of 13, he had been arrested 38 times.[13]

He ended up at the Tryon School for Boys in Johnstown, New York. Tyson's emerging boxing ability was discovered there by Bobby Stewart, a juvenile detention center counselor and former boxer.[8]

Stewart considered Tyson to be an outstanding fighter and trained him for a few months before introducing him to Cus D'Amato.[8

en.wikipedia.org...


I'm not saying Zimmerman is right here. I would like to point out your OP is a fallacy. If you ran into Mike Tyson when he was 15, he probably could have beat you down, robbed you and walked away with a smile on his face.

His biography suggests he was bullied and picked on which led to his behaviour. It would have been sad if someone had snuffed his like out short, but at the same time would you have criticized his ex who said he raped her if she had shot him in defence before the rape took place?

Age really has no bearing on the story.

reply to post by butcherguy

There are elderly people that participate in neighborhood watch programs.

But we all know they are expected to WATCH not take anyone down. they are supposed to call the real police when they see something and that is all they are supposed to do thank God.

hate to think of stalking granny out with her gun watching the neighbors houses.

I haven't paid much attention to this story, but I can guarantee you this:

If George Zimmerman was a cop, the DA and the police would say that he did everything by the book. He wouldn't have spent an hour in jail, and the story would barely get a paragraph on page 7. He would probably wind up getting a commendation.

reply to post by boncho


Mike Tyson is an exception, not the rule. He obviously had a natural talent for violence that just needed to be harnessed and focused.

Like the OP, I would put myself up against any untrained person who I outweighed by 30lbs, and, if I didn't come out best in the encounter, I'd at least be confident of not getting my ass kicked without letting my opponent know he'd been in a fight., This is despite being a far from physically fit 50yr old with no combat training other than a 6mth stint at boxing when I was 14, not a 28 year old who's had the advantage of 16 training sessions at a high level mma facility.

Originally posted by buster2010

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by NaturalDizaster

 

My intention was to prove through logical discourse and perhaps some Platonic style argument that its never ok to draw a loaded firearm and blow a kids life away because your getting scraped in a fist fight whijch you initiated.

There is zero evidence that Zimmerman initiated a fistfight.

Unless you have found some that hasn't been brought out yet.

Following someone to the point of chasing them down will make a person feel threatened. Zimmerman had no right to do any of this because he made himself a neighborhood watchman nobody gave him the job. Now if I were to stop you walking down the street and started demanding answers from you what would you reaction be?

That's pretty simple. If you were a cop, I would provide ID if asked for it. Then I would ask if I was being detained.
If you were not a cop, I would probably keep walking to my destination.
By the way, it isn't illegal to ask people questions in public. It also isn't illegal to follow someone in public.

Zim was no neighborhood watch anything: he was a wannabe junior G-man.

Stand Your Ground in this state does not mean pursue and instigate a confrontation; the guy in Talahassee who authored SYG even said it did not apply in this case.

Carrying concealed as I do does not mean that weapon is a get out of an ass-beating free card if you mouth writes checks your ass can't cash. Far from it, you have the responsibility to do everything in your power to avoid having to use it.

I don't see how that kid was a "Thug" for just walking back to his father's house when this little twerp got a hardon for him.

I hope Zimmerman winds up in prison a good long time, the maggot.

He killed an unarmed kid and did every responsible gun owner in this state a terrible disservice because he was / is a pure coward.

reply to post by setibuddies

Carrying concealed as I do does not mean that weapon is a get out of an ass-beating free card if you mouth writes checks your ass can't cash. Far from it, you have the responsibility to do everything in your power to avoid having to use it.

I must have missed when they passed a law that allows for the beating of people when they talk to you. It has been mentioned several times in the thread.. making it seem like it is okay to beat someone up for saying something to you.

That isn't how civilized people act.

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by setibuddies

 

Carrying concealed as I do does not mean that weapon is a get out of an ass-beating free card if you mouth writes checks your ass can't cash. Far from it, you have the responsibility to do everything in your power to avoid having to use it.

I must have missed when they passed a law that allows for the beating of people when they talk to you. It has been mentioned several times in the thread.. making it seem like it is okay to beat someone up for saying something to you.

That isn't how civilized people act.

I must have missed it when they passed the law that any friggin pinhead jerk can accost you without repercussion.

I must have missed it when they passed the law that any idiot can interfere with the free exercise of simply going about your own business.

"Civilized" people don't pick fights with kids just because they have a 9mm in their pocket to make them feel all safe and warm, like a big boy.

The kid is dead: we don't get his side to the story. Drink your Koolaid if you think Zim was so right.

Originally posted by BellaSabre
I believe a "reasonable person" could have been in the exact circumstances in which Zimmerman found himself, and handled it in such a way that this boy would not have died.

We weren't there, but based on what information we do have, I think many of us could have handled that situation with an outcome that didn't result in anyone's death.

"Son, I'm a security guard. What's your business here tonight?"

Rather than pursuing him after being asked not to by the real police, scaring the crap out of him, (which fear induces all kinds of extreme responses,) and eventually shooting and killing him. Looks like he made it happen.

Defend him all you want. Grown man with a gun; dead unarmed teenager. It doesn't take a genius to figure out the situation was grossly mishandled.

The "real" police never asked him to stop following. The dispatcher said not to.

Gs

reply to post by GermanShep


The dispatcher probably know more laws on how to deal with the situation then Zimmerman did.