Need Advice For Friend Having Dog Problems

Hi there peeps..

Was wondering if I could pluck at the minds of any doggy peeps out there. I have always had dogs and have worked with dogs and at vet practices etc. So one of my closest friends who is a Community Carer rings me up a couple of days ago asking for my advice on a dog she is having problems with at work...

Here is the situation: ~

My friend travels to peoples houses who are in need of care. There is one lady she cares for who is losing her memory quick. This lady has a black labrador dog who is pretty old. Now because she is so forgetful she cannot take the dog for a walk on her own. She forgets that the dog needs to be let out for a pee. She forgets she has or has not fed him. When my friend is over at this lady's house she has to make sure the dog is fed and has water. And also let him out for the toilet. She is not allowed to take him for a walk though...

The dog pees in the house and my friend has said she has tried tirelessly to get rid of the smell. Thinking that might deter the dog from peeing again. But it hasn't. The dog just pees right next to the clean spot. The lady cannot train the dog not to do this as she forgets. Through no fault of her own. The carers cannot train the dog as they do not live with the lady. And there are different carers everyday. And my friend has mentioned a few feel intimidated by the dog.

When my friend cooks the lady dinner the dog will bark constantly while the lady is eating her dinner. The barking also upsets the lady too and she gets distressed. I did suggest putting the dog in another room. But my friend had already thought of that but it would not work. The dog does not wear a collar and apparently he is quite a hefty boy with a deep bark and she has tried getting him to go in or follow her but he just wont. She has also said she is too scared to just drag the dog to another room. Which is fair enough. They have tried ignoring him. But it is difficult to do this as the owner is not compos mentis so she cannot keep up with consistency of ignoring him.

Apparently the dog also knows exactly when my friend is going to leave the house to visit another client. When the dog knows she is leaving he will start barking and will not stop till my friend is in the car and gone. She has also tried ignoring him, saying no firmly with her hand pointing down and infront of her. She wanted to try putting him in a different room but he will not follow or go. He just will not stop for anything apparently. Not even a treat. The lady they gets distressed and some other carers for this lady get scared when the dog does this..

I was having difficulty really giving her any advice. She had already done most of what I had suggested. But sadly the problem is the lack of consistent communication between owner and dog. And it is a very sad case as it is not the lady's fault. But as I said to my friend it will be incredibly difficult trying to change this dogs behaviour because the owner cannot keep on top of it. I did say that maybe it is not wise that she has the dog anymore. But it just seems to harsh really. That dog is the only family the poor lady has got...

Most of the suggestions I thought of would just not work in this situation...

I am still mulling this round in my brain trying to figure something out. But nothing yet. If anyone has any ideas or advice it would be greatly appreciated and I shall pass it on to my friend who will appreciate it too..!

Thanks for reading and if there is info you need to know that I have not given. Please do ask...

Peace
Fluff

reply to post by fluff007


Hi fluff007

I'm not sure if any exist near you but their is companies that exist who specialize in training troublesome older dogs.

Here is a link about training adult dogs, the site seems to have a lot of info about dogs:

training an adult dog

It is hard work training a mature dog as they are set in there ways, unfortunately I cannot help you much more other than saying that something does need to be done. It is a very potential dangerous situation. Ideally I would have said the dog must live outside in a pen if it cannot be trained personally... Going down the route of training with an outside company could be very expensive.

Sticky situation, the woman needs company but the dog is unruly.
Replacing the dog is a no/no it seems also because the dog that could replace the old one may turn out the same or worse and it seems the woman wants to keep her dog.

I hope a reasonable solution can be brokered, good luck.

reply to post by fluff007


The routine of the dog Needs Changed.

Consistency is imperative.

If the owner countermands your friend it could be like beating a dying horse.

When your friend arrives the first thing to do is run the dog out to the bathroom. She needs to pick a word that the dog will associate with this. She also needs to do it about every hour or so using the same word. She also needs to be armed with something for treats. Even dog food will work for that in most cases. Treat the dog every time he goes out. It is very important to do it often and be consistent. Also, No water after 6:00p.m., and have the dog out 2 times within the next 2 hours.

If those conditions can not be met then it is going to be nearly impossible to cure the dog of the peeing issue.

As for the "Going Nuts" when she is leaving. .. .

She is giving the dog clues to her departure. Either the sound of car keys or the sight of putting on a coat, or even picking up a purse. So your friends behavior needs changed. She needs to leave the coat and the purse and car keys outside or in the car. If she is saying goodbye then she need to pick a new word and change it often. Then a couple of times through out her stay she needs to go outside for a few minutes.

Dogs are pretty damn smart. More so than people give them credit for. They can be very easily programmed just by hearing words or seeing things. Your friend needs to use that to her advantage.

There are devices available that can be tried. They emit HF sound above the human range and some dogs become quite docile when one of these is used. I have used one when a job entailed it and they are good sometimes.

Secondly, why not put a collar on the dog. From the sounds of it, the women wouldn't know.

I think what the dog sees is an invasion of his space. I firmly feel that organizations like this that help the elderly should not be sending a different person every day. They care more about budgets and service delivery than they do about love and friendship. I would scream if someone did that to me.

P

reply to post by RAY1990


Thanks for the reply Ray...

Yes that is what my friend is worried about. It is potentially dangerous situation. And it is not going to get better. The lady is only going to get more forgetful and frightened. This in turn will only make the dog worse. The dog will not behaviour normally if its owner is inconsistent, forgetful and at times frightened of their dog. Dogs pick up on that stuff..

Could you possibly post some links to those companies...? I did have a thought wondering whether there was some sort of organisation that deals with situations like this.

I think he is a bit too old to live outside now. And I doubt the lady would take kindly to that. My friend lives and does her community care work in the Highlands of Scotland. It is not particularly warm there I can tell you..!

IMHO, the lady shouldn't have the dog. IF she can't take care of herself then she can't take care of the dog so why should she have it in the first place? Maybe a family member could take the dog that way they could bring it over with them when they go to visit.

reply to post by ShadellacZumbrum


Hi there Shadellac. Thank you for your reply...

Consistency is incredibly important when dealing with dog behaviour. But I doubt this can happen in this situation. The poor old lady just does not remember. Through no fault of her own.

Yes the routine does need to be changed. But that change may not be able to happen. Firstly the carers only have a specific amount of time for the client. And they are there for the client not the animals. They have to make sure everything they need to do for the client is done before time is up. This makes it very difficult for my friend to make time to sort the dog out.

She has tried getting the dog to move but he just will not go. She has even tried shoving him with her leg. Getting him to follow her with a treat. She says she thinks he knows what she is trying to do. And in all probability he probably does know that she is trying to put him in a different room.

She is giving the dog clues to her departure. Either the sound of car keys or the sight of putting on a coat, or even picking up a purse. So your friends behavior needs changed. She needs to leave the coat and the purse and car keys outside or in the car. If she is saying goodbye then she need to pick a new word and change it often. Then a couple of times through out her stay she needs to go outside for a few minutes.

She has tried all that. He still knows. He starts barking literally just as she is about to say either: take care, see you tomorrow, goodbye etc etc...

They are very bloody smart..! Hence the problem Lol

reply to post by fluff007


If she is that badly in need of a companion than she should have a cat. They are very low maintenance compared to dogs.

With her, that poor dog is suffering.

reply to post by kimish

IMHO, the lady shouldn't have the dog. IF she can't take care of herself then she can't take care of the dog so why should she have it in the first place? Maybe a family member could take the dog that way they could bring it over with them when they go to visit.

I do agree that the lady should not have the dog. But at this period of this lady's life taking her only friend away could result in disastrous consequences. The dog is the lady's purpose in life. She has had the dog since he was a puppy and he is over 15 years old now. My friend did not say what condition the lady has, but it is either Dementia or Alzheimers. It has only been the last few years that the lady has started forgetting things.

The dog will pick up on the change in his owner. They are incredibly smart and sensitive...

Sadly she does not have any family. The dog is her only family and friend...

Very difficult situation....

reply to post by fluff007


Yeah, you're right.

Does the woman have family or any neighbors that care about her? I mean, someone that could pop in once in a while and taker her and the dog for a walk? I can imagine that they both get lonely and that is a heart breaker.

reply to post by pheonix358

There are devices available that can be tried. They emit HF sound above the human range and some dogs become quite docile when one of these is used. I have used one when a job entailed it and they are good sometimes.

Secondly, why not put a collar on the dog. From the sounds of it, the women wouldn't know.

I think what the dog sees is an invasion of his space. I firmly feel that organizations like this that help the elderly should not be sending a different person every day. They care more about budgets and service delivery than they do about love and friendship. I would scream if someone did that to me.

Thanks for your reply

I had suggested some sort of device or even a whistle. But the problem is only my friend would use it. The lady would forget.

My friend said the reason she has not put a collar on him is that she and the other carers do not feel confident enough to approach the dog to do that. Now if they do not feel confident in approaching the dog in the first place they should not approach the dog at all. And just ignore the dog.

I will suggest again that my friend talk to the lady about some sort of device or whistle. And if it is a collar device maybe they could get the lady to put it on the dog.

Yep I think it is disgraceful to be honest. That dog which is probably confused and worried is the only family and friend that poor old lady has. And if his behaviour continues the lady is only going to get more distressed and upset. However if they were to remove the dog entirely that might just kill the lady off..

:/

reply to post by kimish

Yeah, you're right.

Does the woman have family or any neighbors that care about her? I mean, someone that could pop in once in a while and taker her and the dog for a walk? I can imagine that they both get lonely and that is a heart breaker.

She does not have any family. I am not sure about her neighbours. I shall send my friend a message and update the thread..
It is such a shame. My friend feels awful about the whole thing. She has got no idea what to do. She said if she had the time she would come to the ladys house as a friend not a carer and start to help the lady with the dog and take it for walks etc...
But sadly she has literally no spare time at the moment. Carers are completely exploited..

Originally posted by fluff007
reply to post by RAY1990

 

Thanks for the reply Ray...

Yes that is what my friend is worried about. It is potentially dangerous situation. And it is not going to get better. The lady is only going to get more forgetful and frightened. This in turn will only make the dog worse. The dog will not behaviour normally if its owner is inconsistent, forgetful and at times frightened of their dog. Dogs pick up on that stuff..

Could you possibly post some links to those companies...? I did have a thought wondering whether there was some sort of organisation that deals with situations like this.

I think he is a bit too old to live outside now. And I doubt the lady would take kindly to that. My friend lives and does her community care work in the Highlands of Scotland. It is not particularly warm there I can tell you..!

I can understand the weather I live just south of the border so it's not a lot warmer here but atleast it's a bit less wet.

Here is a few links for you, the first is based in Scotland so is probably the best to look at.

Scottish Dog training
Dog training
International Dog training

Other animals that are just as sociable as dogs could be another route I guess, but stability is what is recommended for the old and needy. Ideally this lady needs to keep her dog and it just needs to be managed better.

Too much change is never good in a situation like this and I can understand that, here is to hoping everything goes well and a resolve is met safely and soon.

If you'd like anymore help just let me know

Originally posted by RAY1990

Originally posted by fluff007
reply to post by RAY1990

 

Thanks for the reply Ray...

Yes that is what my friend is worried about. It is potentially dangerous situation. And it is not going to get better. The lady is only going to get more forgetful and frightened. This in turn will only make the dog worse. The dog will not behaviour normally if its owner is inconsistent, forgetful and at times frightened of their dog. Dogs pick up on that stuff..

Could you possibly post some links to those companies...? I did have a thought wondering whether there was some sort of organisation that deals with situations like this.

I think he is a bit too old to live outside now. And I doubt the lady would take kindly to that. My friend lives and does her community care work in the Highlands of Scotland. It is not particularly warm there I can tell you..!

I can understand the weather

I live just south of the border so it's not a lot warmer here but atleast it's a bit less wet.

Here is a few links for you, the first is based in Scotland so is probably the best to look at.

Scottish Dog training
Dog training
International Dog training

Other animals that are just as sociable as dogs could be another route I guess, but stability is what is recommended for the old and needy. Ideally this lady needs to keep her dog and it just needs to be managed better.

Too much change is never good in a situation like this and I can understand that, here is to hoping everything goes well and a resolve is met safely and soon.

If you'd like anymore help just let me know

Lol indeed..!

Ty for the links. I am actually talking to my friend now and I have suggested maybe she a device like this..

www.petco.com...

Because there is no help from the council or government. My friend nor the old lady could afford to hire a specialist to come over and give a lesson or something..

I really do not think removing the dog is going to be a plausible option. It is such shame that there is not an organisation or charity that specialises in causes like this. I wonder how many other older peeps and carers and animals are in the same situation. The government certainly has no help for these situations.

Thanks for your help and advice Ray. Tis greatly appreciated

I may call upon thee again though.. Watch this space

reply to post by fluff007


Far as I can see, this is a no win situation.
The dog needs routine and if his person cannot do this, all attempts will fail.
Sure this creates an unhealthy and smelly situation but, if both are on their way out practically, I say let sleeping dogs lie.
Separating the two would be cruel.

15 years old is good for a lab as they do not last that long with their back ends .it is very true what they saw about dogs being like their owners maybe the dog is going senile too .

it is a hard problem to deal with and is only made better by the age of the dog lucky it is not a young dog . get an alarm set for her .

another thing i live in the highlands and find it strange that the amount of people who have dementia is staggering even in young people including m/s .

which i think is among the highest in the world ?? pm me if in the iv postcode i miss walking my dog who died 2 years ago

reply to post by g146541

Far as I can see, this is a no win situation. The dog needs routine and if his person cannot do this, all attempts will fail. Sure this creates an unhealthy and smelly situation but, if both are on their way out practically, I say let sleeping dogs lie. Separating the two would be cruel.

I think what both the carer and client want is for the both animal and owner to enjoy their last few years together.. The lady does not like getting distressed because of the dog. But because of her condition she does not fully understand..

reply to post by billdadobbie

15 years old is good for a lab as they do not last that long with their back ends .it is very true what they saw about dogs being like their owners maybe the dog is going senile too .

it is a hard problem to deal with and is only made better by the age of the dog lucky it is not a young dog . get an alarm set for her .

another thing i live in the highlands and find it strange that the amount of people who have dementia is staggering even in young people including m/s .

which i think is among the highest in the world ?? pm me if in the iv postcode i miss walking my dog who died 2 years ago

Thanks for the PM billdadobbie

I have sent you a PM. I just do not want to post any personal information on here about my friend or her client.
The dogs age does make it difficult. And I think alot of the time dogs will mimic their owners personalities or even become like them. And it is true dogs do resemble their owners. I have had many people claim that myself and my dog are very alike...!

The alarm idea is a good one..! I will suggest that as an option too..

I shall contact my friend too...

IMHO, the lady shouldn't have the dog. IF she can't take care of herself then she can't take care of the dog so why should she have it in the first place?

I have to agree here.

The other answer may be to find a home for this big dog, and get a smaller, easier to care for dog, to fulfill the friend role. A lot less challenge with the smaller dog.

If not an option though...first, the dog needs a harness and leash. Taking the dog out should be the FIRST thing any caretaker does when they come over...all using the same key word, like "Outside!" said with enthusiasm. Reward the dog with a treat after he does his business. Keep doing that, and it will become a learned behavior.

For the barking, get a barking collar. Contrary to belief, these don't really hurt all that much (try one), and after about a week or so, you can remove it typically, as it will have trained the behavior away. Another good solution against barking is no barking "spray". It's really just an aerosol can that makes a noise, but it works wonders.

I know this all from experience, having two big dogs that needed a lot of training out of bad behaviors. Routine and consistency is king. If they know what to expect, it makes training ANYTHING much easier.

As for cleanup, Google on S-32, it is an amazing cleaner for anything pet related. (especially carpets). Training pads may be a good solution for accidents too.

On the forgetting feeding and watering bit, there are several timed food and water dishes that can help here, to make sure her friend gets what he needs despite her forgetfulness.

reply to post by fluff007


i pm you my number i know a lot of people in this area who would help if it is out of my range