Unification theory of Science & Spirit?

Hello ATS,

Seeing how I am not a “scientist” myself, I will be very careful how I word this and just how much I will try not to copy from the original article.

The website and articles seem to be from the turn of the century.
web.archive.org...://www.isso.org/indexbig.htm

However, I came across this article:
“The Divine Spirit as Field and Person”
by Bruce Curtis, M.A.

web.archive.org...://www.isso.org/inbox/divine.htm

The article attempts to reconcile the “scientific with the non-scientific”.

The author does so be correlating our “spirit” to a ‘field” and uses some interesting passages from the Bible and the current (at time of publishing) understanding of “Zero-point field” (ZPF) by wrapping together theology and science, specifically with stochastic electrodynamics.
The premise of the article goes on to use David Joseph Bohm theory in quantum mechanics to wrap it all together.

From the article:

“In light of stochastic electrodynamics, which differs from classical physics only in the postulation of the ZPF as a real field, we move close to a unification of electromagnetics and gravity or electro–gravitation. Here gravitation is a zero–point fluctuation force. Since the energy associated with such fluctuations is viewed as the energy equivalent of gravitational rest mass, gravitational mass need no longer be seen as the source of gravity.2 These conclusions, if borne out, reconcile the disparate requirements of mainstream physics: continuity, causality, and locality in the case of relativity and non–continuity, non–causality, and non–locality in the case of quantum theory. The ZPF model rekindles the fires of unification and opens up the vision of wholeness.”

In this he references a quote from Dr. Hurtak:
The matter–muon combination is also used to control universal zero–point vibrations which accounts for the pattern of the molecular force. This universal zero–point is a point of original attachment to other universal systems through which creation takes place. Secondary systems of physical creation must acknowledge the universal zero–point as the origin of galactic matter in the same way a child acknowledges the cord of his mother's womb out of which he is extended.

Dr. Hurtak has a website also:
The Academy for Future Science
affs.org...

"Physical perception occurs by means of quantum processes."
- Dr. J.J. Hurtak

World-Wide Mission Statement:
The Academy's goal is to globally assist in the most significant step towards acquiring the educational and scientific tools needed for resolving the problems of non-renewable resources and building a new scientific civilization with a positive future in the Twenty-First Century.

David Joseph Bohm FRS[1] (20 December 1917 – 27 October 1992) was an American theoretical physicist who contributed innovative and unorthodox ideas to quantum theory, philosophy of mind, and neuropsychology. He is widely considered to be one of the most significant theoretical physicists of the 20th century.[2

en.wikipedia.org...

A little on his holonomic model of brain:
In collaboration with Stanford neuroscientist Karl Pribram, Bohm was involved in the early development of the holonomic model of the functioning of the brain, a model for human cognition that is drastically different from conventionally accepted ideas.[5] Bohm worked with Pribram on the theory that the brain operates in a manner similar to a hologram, in accordance with quantum mathematical principles and the characteristics of wave patterns.[21]

So what say you ATS?

Given that this theory is over a decade old and doesn't appear to have garnered too much traction, would make one a little skeptical. However, there is much beauty in what is being said in the article.

I love how it speaks to the random being predicted in the next demension. I guess because from our postion we only see a part of the whole picture. But in the next demenion looking back it's all very elementry. Which explains why our spirit is so omnipotent and omnipresent?

reply to post by Rosinitiate


Two people who I don't think much of - Hurtak and Curtis. Whoa!

Both woo slingers. At least Hurtak actually HAS a doctorate, albeit garnered in Oriental Science from a backwater Mexican uni.

Ever ask yourself why the "Academy for Future Science" doesn't give you a street address?

reply to post by Bedlam


Why don't you think much of them?

Specifically this article referenced above? It does make sense does it not? if only in theory....

Science is a method and spirit is an unproved loosely defined concept so it would be impossible to unify them. You would have to prove there is a spirit before you could attempt to unify them.

reply to post by Rosinitiate


Both, but especially Hurtak, are as far into the whack as you can get. Have you looked at Hurtak's publications? Sorry, but when you try pinning the science label to things like "the keys of enoch" and running "The Academy for Future Science" which happens to be headquartered in your spare bedroom, you're a joke.

Originally posted by Rosinitiate
David Joseph Bohm FRS[1] (20 December 1917 – 27 October 1992) was an American theoretical physicist who contributed innovative and unorthodox ideas to quantum theory, philosophy of mind, and neuropsychology. He is widely considered to be one of the most significant theoretical physicists of the 20th century.[2

en.wikipedia.org...

A little on his holonomic model of brain:
In collaboration with Stanford neuroscientist Karl Pribram, Bohm was involved in the early development of the holonomic model of the functioning of the brain, a model for human cognition that is drastically different from conventionally accepted ideas.[5] Bohm worked with Pribram on the theory that the brain operates in a manner similar to a hologram, in accordance with quantum mathematical principles and the characteristics of wave patterns.[21]

Bohm and Pribram have always had a very special place in my heart.

The holomovement physics model makes far more sense and is more likely than particle physics. It allows for every single mystery we have that is unexplained right now. This includes divine matters, miracles, psychic phenomenon, extra-dimensional beings, UFOs, etc.

I often say that spirituality and science will soon reach an apex and I believe their work will have much to do with that breakthrough.

Originally posted by Cuervo

Bohm and Pribram have always had a very special place in my heart.

The holomovement physics model makes far more sense and is more likely than particle physics.

Did that special place involve reading the papers for more than keywords? Bohm's paper had to do with how the brain stores info, not particle physics.

It allows for every single mystery we have that is unexplained right now. This includes divine matters, miracles, psychic phenomenon, extra-dimensional beings, UFOs, etc.

I often say that spirituality and science will soon reach an apex and I believe their work will have much to do with that breakthrough.

There's another, simpler solution that also deals with every mystery in your list. The null set.

Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by Cuervo

Bohm and Pribram have always had a very special place in my heart.

The holomovement physics model makes far more sense and is more likely than particle physics.

Did that special place involve reading the papers for more than keywords? Bohm's paper had to do with how the brain stores info, not particle physics.

Wow, I don't recall peeing in your cheerios or giving you a reason to act superior. Especially when you are wrong. I never referred to the paper.

Bohm was the guy who freakin' coined "holomovement" as an important principle. I don't even know what paper you are talking about. I have studied both those men in the past and am well aware of David Bohm's works. He dealt with physics. A lot.

Originally posted by Cuervo

Bohm was the guy who freakin' coined "holomovement" as an important principle. I don't even know what paper you are talking about. I have studied both those men in the past and am well aware of David Bohm's works. He dealt with physics. A lot.

He did. But. The "holonomic theory of brain" doesn't relate to particle physics.

Originally posted by PhoenixOD
Science is a method and spirit is an unproved loosely defined concept so it would be impossible to unify them. You would have to prove there is a spirit before you could attempt to unify them.

edit on 22-6-2013 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)

That's the point of the article!

Stating that spirit is "field" as in a scientifically measured concept.

The way I am reading and uinderstanding it is that if I was a quantum particle (I know, but try to imagine) then the comings and goings of the "random" would actually be predictable to me. As a field (life), electromagnetic or otherwise, would fold or "enfold" on itself as a field of energy and although seemingly random, when look "back" atwould be otherwise predictable.

It's hard for us to see this because we would be looking forward at this phenomenon and seeing it mesh into randomness because the energy moves to higher demensions we can't experience on the physical. But in the spiritual or extra demensions we would see it as an expected event or movement.

Here's some more on your boy Hurtak:

Earlier in 1973, maverick linguist, alleged CIA consultant, occultist and nouveau Egyptologist, J.J. Hurtak, according to his account, had been “lifted up” in a body of light into a region of stars called Merak and Muscida by the Master Ophanim Enoch. Enoch, answering a prayerful plea from Hurtak, had come to deliver a revelatory message outlining the purpose of life on the Earth plane, and to reveal the contours of a coming confrontation between the Children of Light and the Fallen Masters of Darkness.2 Over a period of two days (Jan 2-3) Enoch “downloaded” into Hurtak a total of 64 keys or revelations and these became The Book of Knowledge: The Keys of Enoch. The Book of Knowledge details a premillennial, post-Christian account that calls on the Children of Light to be genetically recoded for the energy transformations to come that they may be the vanguard of an ascended “Christ Race,” which will complete the evolution of the original Pre-Adamic races. Key 109, a central revelation in this regard, reads as follows: The Anti-Universe is composed of Star Field Energies revealed on the Black Cube of Mecca which shows the function and destruction of three dimensional universes. 3

Hurtak’s commentary on this Key reveals that the events of October 1973 galvanized him. Hurtak saw the October war as evidence that most Muslims, particularly those in power, are in league with, or in thrall to, dark extraterrestrial forces that originate in the constellations of Ursa Minor and Draco (with the principle star alpha Draconis as a focus). Hurtak constructs an elaborate narrative linking ancient astronomy and geometry, genetic/molecular and computer theory with geo-political events, and in revisiting the old competitions between Muslim, Christian and Jew, recasts the historic dimensions of this occasional conflict in extraterrestrial, genetic terms. In elaborating on Hurtak’s prophetic project I will first briefly describe Hurtak’s process of “prophetic regenesis,” in which revelation and prophetic commentary are said to “reveal” the contours of a cosmic conflict between two ancient extraterrestrial genetic bloodlines that is said to manifest itself in geo-political events on earth. Then, I will discuss how Hurtak’s process of revelation subsumes and elides the actual sequence of events as recorded by news agencies. Lastly, I will briefly describe how this narrative of Muslim/Christian conflict, recast in extraterrestrial and genetic terms, has impacted the writings and ideations of New Age and Ascensionist thinkers and practitioners.

source

Ok, so the guy seriously believes he's been "lifted up" by some angelic being and downloaded with all these keys of knowledge. An ascensionist, a believer in channeling info from aliens, and guess what, he's got "revealed knowledge" about energy, vibrations, fields and probably Tesla.

I don't think you could get any better than this.

Originally posted by Rosinitiate
That's the point of the article!

Stating that spirit is "field" as in a scientifically measured concept.

The way I am reading and uinderstanding it is that if I was a quantum particle (I know, but try to imagine) then the comings and goings of the "random" would actually be predictable to me. As a field (life), electromagnetic or otherwise, would fold or "enfold" on itself as a field of energy and although seemingly random, when look "back" atwould be otherwise predictable.

If he's going to try to claim that a spirit is a 'field', he'd better be ready to produce some reproducible lab measurements that aren't obviously transmissions from a cell phone down the road. Which he can't.

It's hard for us to see this because we would be looking forward at this phenomenon and seeing it mesh into randomness because the energy moves to higher demensions we can't experience on the physical. But in the spiritual or extra demensions we would see it as an expected event or movement.

If you see someone try to conflate "higher dimensions" and spirituality, and is using "field", "energy", "quantum", or "vibration" and has no experimental data, and especially if he invokes Bohm, Tipler or Tesla, it's a sure sign he's a New Ager or theosophist. "higher dimensions" only associates with "spiritual purity" or "ascension" outside of physics, they arrogate physics terms to make it look more plausible and mainstream, but they're not using the terms in the same way.

Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by Cuervo

Bohm was the guy who freakin' coined "holomovement" as an important principle. I don't even know what paper you are talking about. I have studied both those men in the past and am well aware of David Bohm's works. He dealt with physics. A lot.

He did. But. The "holonomic theory of brain" doesn't relate to particle physics.

I know that. I was talking about the holomovement theory which is related to both the particle physics model and the holonomic theory of the brain.

It's an alternative physics model. It is "alternative" to the particle model. They don't have to relate all that much aside from both of them attempting to justify our existence with science.

Originally posted by PhoenixOD
Science is a method and spirit is an unproved loosely defined concept so it would be impossible to unify them. You would have to prove there is a spirit before you could attempt to unify them.

I'm just curious.

What physical manifestation would be deemed acceptable to academia as proof?

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by PhoenixOD
Science is a method and spirit is an unproved loosely defined concept so it would be impossible to unify them. You would have to prove there is a spirit before you could attempt to unify them.

I'm just curious.

What physical manifestation would be deemed acceptable to academia as proof?

It would have to be measurable for a start.

reply to post by Rosinitiate

The author does so be correlating our “spirit” to a ‘field”

But as there is no evidence a spirit even exists its pointless to try to correlate it to anything. Its just mental masturbation.

reply to post by PhoenixOD


Wait what?!?

No evidence a spirit exists? Have you ever bothered to reflect?

I understand some people are so scientifically driven that they require the knowledge of someone else proving something is what it is...even though a 5 year old had always known.

Is the 5 year old wrong if science doesn't validate it, or does the child simply become correct once science does?

*sigh*

To each their own.

reply to post by Rosinitiate

I understand some people are so scientifically driven that they require the knowledge of someone else proving something is what it is...even though a 5 year old had always known.

Is the 5 year old wrong if science doesn't validate it, or does the child simply become correct once science does?

So you are criticizing the methodology of science when at the start of the tread you are presenting something that is attempting to use science as an explanation.

I think you are somewhat confused.