Obama administration charges NSA whistleblower Snowden with espionage

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
If information is wrongfully/illegaly classified and someone whistleblows the corruption then I am not sure if that in itself is illegal, and if it is more or less illegal than what some government employs are doing on behalf of the government.

In other words the government is fighting itself. The heros are fighting the scum for a greater good. You are giving the scum a free pass and want the heros prosecuted. I think you got your priorities backwards to say the least and I can't say more because of this site's strict T&C!

Their can't be repercussions for him being a whistleblower but his breaking the law that we have all , with a clearance , signed up for is a different story.

More or less doesn't work when you have a statement like "The unauthorized release of classified information is a
federal criminal offense." It doesn't say is a federal offense based on the information but rather the act of releasing anything classified. If the origins of his whistle-blowing are what he claims then I have repeatedly said in the 9 million other posts here that I think it should factor into the final decisions made on him.

Next, please tell me exactly what you know about my priorities or better yet what my opinions are on this matter because nothing I said is opinion but fact. So please keep getting your panties in a bunch over my stating the facts. Since I doubt you will read the 9 million other posts I will summarize it for you.

I believe he should be found guilty of the crimes he has broken , labeled a criminal and be granted immunity if his story is factual. If on the other hand he willingly gives those secrets to the restricted countries , again something anyone with a clearance has dealt with , then that is a different story and he is now a traitor.

reply to post by smithjustinb


Tax payer's check no less.

*shakes head*

-SAP-

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by BubbaJoe

 

I worded that carefully and intentionally. I'm not entirely sure about Rand Paul and this would be a perfect time to show he shares the values of his Father in any meaningful way for ending the direction our Government has taken off in. I do very much feel his father had integrity though and it's why Ron Paul spent at least part of his career pretty much fighting both parties to different degrees. Heck, the GOP actually ran someone against him for primary on his own Congressional seat on a race prior to his run for President. Like Father like son? That is a good question.

edit on 21-6-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

I too feel that Ron Paul had a great deal of integrity, in fact in many ways I supported him. That being said, I feel the apple has fallen far from the tree, and his offspring is nothing more than an ignorant and greedy politician.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by BubbaJoe

 

My defense of Snowden is that he was disobeying an unlawful order. And exposed it to the sources he felt safest with. That his position makes him privy to information that we don't have, and this information informed him to a point that he went to non-US media. To me, it is for obvious reasons as they are just (un)official government propaganda outlets at the highest levels, and his story likely wouldn't have gained traction.

Look how long it took for Fast and Furious to get any traction. And it has still just kind of stalled. Journalistic apathy, that's what it is.

RE: my father....he was a POS. My stepdad was my dad. No need for condolences, I have lived my life intent on being anything but him.

RE: Rand Paul, agreed. He is a mere shadow of his father.

edit on 21-6-2013 by bigfatfurrytexan because: (no reason given)

Snowden was employed as a data analyst, at least from what I can gather, this was his job. He figured out how this data was obtained, and leaked it to a foreign source. This is where I have a problem, and I am a vet, and I held a clearance. He committed a crime, one at the highest level, and should be prosecuted. At least when you join the military, they make it pretty plain and simple, maybe not for civilian contractors.

Originally posted by opethPA


I believe he should be found guilty of the crimes he has broken , labeled a criminal and be granted immunity if his story is factual. If on the other hand he willingly gives those secrets to the restricted countries , again something anyone with a clearance has dealt with , then that is a different story and he is now a traitor.

Just take a look at ALL those Pardoned by Presidents.






The lists of crimes is insane.

LET'S PAUSE for a moment to recall WHY we're having this conversation and take the time to reflect on our level of disquiet regarding this...

The program facilitates extensive, in-depth surveillance on live communications and stored information. The law allows for the targeting of any customers of participating firms who live outside the US, or those Americans whose communications include people outside the US. It also opens the possibility of communications made entirely within the US being collected without warrants.

Disclosure of the Prism program follows a leak to the Guardian on Wednesday of a top-secret court order compelling telecoms provider Verizon to turn over the telephone records of millions of US customers. The participation of the internet companies in Prism will add to the debate, ignited by the Verizon revelation, about the scale of surveillance by the intelligence services. Unlike the collection of those call records, this surveillance can include the content of communications and not just the metadata.

NSA Prism program taps in to user data...

reply to post by BubbaJoe


He prolly knew what he was doing from the get go. He could have had a whole plan laid out.

Get a clearance, get the job, find the juicy stuff, and dip out with the info.

Sure sounds like a good plan, but to actually pull that off? Now that takes some skill. That what I think.

-SAP-

reply to post by opethPA


What legal body is going to determine if his story is factual? The country he is seeking sanctuary with or the usa? The law is the law but apparently there are limits to who gets charged, prosecuted and penalised. Eric Holder himself is rumored to be obstructing justice in regards to several scandals/crimes. Obama on the otherhand has been lying through his teeth on many instances including the assault weapons ban and the weaponisation of terrorists in the middle east as though they are worthy rebels.

It would be such a shame to play technicalities to incriminate people with good intentions and give the hardcore criminals that have infested our government a free pass.

reply to post by SloAnPainful


If President Obama wants to leave the White House on a good note, he'll give that guy's ass a full pardon.

Originally posted by Archie
LET'S PAUSE for a moment to recall WHY we're having this conversation and take the time to reflect on our level of disquiet regarding this...

The program facilitates extensive, in-depth surveillance on live communications and stored information. The law allows for the targeting of any customers of participating firms who live outside the US, or those Americans whose communications include people outside the US. It also opens the possibility of communications made entirely within the US being collected without warrants.

Disclosure of the Prism program follows a leak to the Guardian on Wednesday of a top-secret court order compelling telecoms provider Verizon to turn over the telephone records of millions of US customers. The participation of the internet companies in Prism will add to the debate, ignited by the Verizon revelation, about the scale of surveillance by the intelligence services. Unlike the collection of those call records, this surveillance can include the content of communications and not just the metadata.

NSA Prism program taps in to user data...

I know you are trying to be a valuable member to this conversation, however you have missed the partisanship of US politics. This program was initiated and started under our Republican President George Bush, we now have a Democratic President Barrack Obama. The same program, the same guidelines, but somehow Obama is a bad guy, and invading our privacy, and Bush was a good guy protecting us from terrorists.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
reply to post by opethPA

 

What legal body is going to determine if his story is factual? The country he is seeking sanctuary with or the usa? The law is the law but apparently there are limits to who gets charged, prosecuted and penalised. Eric Holder himself is rumored to be obstructing justice in regards to several scandals/crimes. Obama on the otherhand has been lying through his teeth on many instances including the assault weapons ban and the weaponisation of terrorists in the middle east as though they are worthy rebels.

It would be such a shame to play technicalities to incriminate people with good intentions and give the hardcore criminals that have infested our government a free pass.

edit on 21/6/13 by EarthCitizen07 because: (no reason given)

I hate one line responses so I am going to hit enter and add a second line.

Bush never lied to us? Seriously, lets see some hard core proof of WMD's, do you have it, didn't think so.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
reply to post by opethPA

 

What legal body is going to determine if his story is factual? The country he is seeking sanctuary with or the usa? The law is the law but apparently there are limits to who gets charged, prosecuted and penalised. Eric Holder himself is rumored to be obstructing justice in regards to several scandals/crimes. Obama on the otherhand has been lying through his teeth on many instances including the assault weapons ban and the weaponisation of terrorists in the middle east as though they are worthy rebels.

It would be such a shame to play technicalities to incriminate people with good intentions and give the hardcore criminals that have infested our government a free pass.

edit on 21/6/13 by EarthCitizen07 because: (no reason given)

Playing technicalities? Really?
Every clearance I ever had said "unauthorized release of classified information is a criminal federal offense"
Every clearance anyone has had says that.
When Snowden got his Secret clearance it said that
When he got his Top Secret..His compartmentalized and everything above it said that.

You can close a blind eye to to what your hero has done. I'm not here debating on if it was warranted. Im not here debating if it was justified. If the President or anyone that has a clearance release unauthorized information I would be saying the same thing.

You must have never had any experience in that world which is why you are so willing to throw aside the law . The same thing you are stating the president has done. Can't have it both ways.

reply to post by BubbaJoe


I understand that. And, like I said, we told the Nazi soldiers who just followed orders that it was no excuse.

So which is it? Following unlawful orders is no excuse? Or it is an excuse?

Originally posted by BubbaJoe
[
I know you are trying to be a valuable member to this conversation, however you have missed the partisanship of US politics. This program was initiated and started under our Republican President George Bush, we now have a Democratic President Barrack Obama. The same program, the same guidelines, but somehow Obama is a bad guy, and invading our privacy, and Bush was a good guy protecting us from terrorists.

Now, Bubba, Bubba, you're forgetting something. This is waaay beyond partisan politics. Only those seeking to distract people from the much larger issue at hand would turn it into a partisan issue and try to bury the bigger picture - the fact the citizens are being watched like criminals 24/7 - in the minutiae of partisan politics, the mechanics of Mercedes Benz's and legal definitions of traitor. You wouldn't be trying to do THAT, would you, Bubba? Would you?

Just look at the bigger picture, man. Just look at it!

Originally posted by BubbaJoe

I know you are trying to be a valuable member to this conversation, however you have missed the partisanship of US politics. This program was initiated and started under our Republican President George Bush, we now have a Democratic President Barrack Obama. The same program, the same guidelines, but somehow Obama is a bad guy, and invading our privacy, and Bush was a good guy protecting us from terrorists.

It really seems like you are trying to derail the thread with partisan politics. Bush should have been charged with mass murder and conspiracy as anyone with at least half a brain and who took the time to do actual research would have found out that the usa government did a false flag on 9-11-2001. There is plenty of circumstantial evidence and I would also say eyewitness testimony(at least in nyc).

But Obama is doing his own foulplay and deserves scrutiny as well. Maybe we should charge both presidents for their actual crimes. I am not holding my breath as I don't think it will ever happen. I would like to be proved wrong though.

And this just in... this is the bigger picture, too:

Facebook admits year-long data breach exposed 6 million users

By Gerry Shih Filed June 21, 2013

Facebook Inc has inadvertently exposed 6 million users' phone numbers and email addresses to unauthorized viewers over the past year, the world's largest social networking company disclosed late Friday. Facebook blamed the data leaks, which began in 2012, on a technical glitch in its massive archive of contact information collected from its 1.1 billion users worldwide. As a result of the glitch, Facebook users who downloaded contact data for their list of friends obtained additional information that they were not supposed to have.

Originally posted by Archie
Just look at the bigger picture, man. Just look at it!

The centerfold?

First of all I think Snowden is lying and using half truths to convey something for who knows what, maybe publicity and thrill. Where is proof he worked for the NSA? There are many problems with his statements. You can't get a job with the NSA without a college degree and very often a military background . It is not possible for a high school dropout to get employment in that organization. He would not have gotten an interview no matter how smart he appeared when applying. If he applied at all.

There is no doubt the US government is using surveillance on its citizens but with the potential threats I see no reason why they shouldn't.

Originally posted by opethPA

Playing technicalities? Really?
Every clearance I ever had said "unauthorized release of classified information is a criminal federal offense"
Every clearance anyone has had says that.
When Snowden got his Secret clearance it said that
When he got his Top Secret..His compartmentalized and everything above it said that.

You can close a blind eye to to what your hero has done. I'm not here debating on if it was warranted. Im not here debating if it was justified. If the President or anyone that has a clearance release unauthorized information I would be saying the same thing.

You must have never had any experience in that world which is why you are so willing to throw aside the law . The same thing you are stating the president has done. Can't have it both ways.

edit on 21-6-2013 by opethPA because: (no reason given)

Yes I will turn a blind eye for this case because I believe it is warranted when everything is taken into consideration. In matter of fact it doesn't really matter what I think because I am not china determining anything. I am speaking personal opinion and I have that right.

You can go ahead and overlook the corruption at the top of the usa government in favor of lambasting snowden and other worthy whistleblowers. Just remember if not for people like him we would have obama ACTING AS HITLER 2 with massive wars, poverty, death and utter destruction. Is that what you want or are you naive??