Elisa Lam Death Accidental: LA Coroner

a reply to: TruthLover557

There is video footage where she enters the buildings elevator, the video scared the living daylight out of me.
It is like a scene taken out of horror movie.

a reply to: taxed

I heard the David Paulides interview, too. The one most important fact he mentioned that is not included in this thread is that Lisa Lam was found with NO BLOOD IN HER BODY.

If that's true, that takes the mystery of her death to a whole new level and it's no wonder why the LAPD had to be creative in finding a cause for her death.

Utterly bizarre story here.

One of the most interesting questions: What about a toxycology report? Was one released?

After seeing the CCTV and knowing she is bipolar I assume she was on some kind of drugs, be it medicaments or 'funny ones'.


EDIT: Here i found it:
www.pdf-archive.com...

pages 22 and following: 5 (!) prescripted medicaments found.

a reply to: 1questioner

I listened to the David Paulides interview on C2C as well. It was the first time, since this happened two and a half years ago, that I have heard she had little or no blood in her body. And you're right, it's an important new piece to this mystery. Thanks for bringing it up here.

My opinion on Paulides is that he is highly credible based on his research, investigation and reporting methods into missing persons cases in the US and beyond. Although I've seen no evidence of her body being bloodless, I'm going to assume he has. The autopsy and toxicology reports are highly scientific. So it is also possible he determined her body was found in a bloodless state based on his ability to interpret specific elements of said toxicology and autopsy reports, elements that perhaps that average person (like myself) would not recognize when reading the reports. Does anyone happen to know his direct source for this new information?

a reply to: TruthLover557

i did some 'research' aka 3min websurfing on this case.
The 'she had no blood in her body' theory came from a movie.

i forgot the name, something like "Dark Waters"? the movie plot is somewhat similar to a girl who which found in a water tank on a roof. the movie character was murdered and found without blood.

NOT the real girl in this case.

My first wife was Bi-Polar and in her darkest periods there would also manifest delusional realities and heavy paranoia. She might have not climb into the tank to kill herself but she could have done it thinking her presence in the water would purify some evil that would kill everyone in the hotel, and ended up drowning. I could see my ex-wife do something like....

a reply to: Xtrozero

I see as well something in this direction: Lam was in a poor mental condition (as can be seen in the cctv video), suffering from bipolar to depressions, maybe some manic episodes.

She was on 5 (!) different prescripted drugs.

She went to the roof, maybe just to get a breather, maybe with suicidal tendencies.

Sees the water tanks then couple of scenarios:

- she was just curious to see whats inside, openend the lid, slipped fell and could not get out anymore (prolly no ladder on the inside
- she was thirsty (drugs do that) wanted to get some water, slipped, fell into the tank
- she remembered the Movie 'Dark water' lost her mind and did a copycat.

Sad story in all versions.

I think the only criminal thing in the story is the doctor who describes 5 different pharmaceuticals.

apparently you are unfamiliar with the delusional psychosis often associated with bipolar, or the schizoaffective nature of severe extremes in mood.

I suspect it took 19 weeks because what happened is insane. And you have to exhaust all possible leads before you just point to insanity. Had they rolled that out after 3 weeks, we'd be calling it a lazy investigation.

Nope...i totally buy it. Based on my years working with acutely ill mental patients in an admissions environment.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
My first wife was Bi-Polar and in her darkest periods there would also manifest delusional realities and heavy paranoia. She might have not climb into the tank to kill herself but she could have done it thinking her presence in the water would purify some evil that would kill everyone in the hotel, and ended up drowning. I could see my ex-wife do something like....

This.

Xtrozero gets it.

Delusional psychosis.

And bipolar is very difficult to treat, requiring antidepressants, mood stabilizers, anti anxiety, and antispychotic. And something as simple as eating too much salt in their popcorn can cause the delicate medicinal balance to fly off kilter (lithium is absorbed through the same chemical receptors as salt, so salt blocks lithium uptake).

a reply to: MindFreak29

to answer the questions about why the dogs did not smell anything: The last contact with the deceased was on 31 January, the police started to get involved on 6. February, the body was found 19. February.

I don't know exactly when the K9 came in. Best case would be 6 days after she went missing.
Prolly hard to smell traces on a rooftop after 6 days in a city environment.

And the body was inside a water tank, way to high up for a dog. Besides the body was covered with water.

After 6 or more days the smell was... different.

originally posted by: IronCell
a reply to: TruthLover557

There is video footage where she enters the buildings elevator, the video scared the living daylight out of me.
It is like a scene taken out of horror movie.

I have to agree. One of the creepiest videos I've ever seen. Sometimes real life is far scarier than the movies.

The other question was how she got the cover back on to the water tank.........

From what i hear removing it isnt an easy task, and putting it back on while youre inside it is even harder...

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

Gravity!
Open the lid of a container, let it loose, see what happens.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

Nope...i totally buy it. Based on my years working with acutely ill mental patients in an admissions environment.

As example my ex wife was stopped in a restricted area trying to climb up a huge JP-8 fuel tank. She thought that the tank was going to explode if she could not put her hand into it to stop "whatever" was going to make it explode. To me this looks all too similar...

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

I wouldn't completely rule out the tenacity and strength of psychosis, especially if the person was in the middle of a manic phase. I've seen it in my own mother - 5 foot nothing 120lbs - move a nearly 200lb washing machine across a room during a fit.

originally posted by: IronCell
a reply to: TruthLover557

There is video footage where she enters the buildings elevator, the video scared the living daylight out of me.
It is like a scene taken out of horror movie.

Me too, that video was pretty disturbing! this whole story creeped me out when I first heard about it and watched the video, I still lean towards something sinister (though maybe I just have that sort of mind).

Gives me the chills, even now!

I just want to say that since starting this thread two and a half years ago, my view of what likely (not definitely) happened to Elisa Lam is in line with most of you here. The case was super weird at first, but after reading many analyses and going over the evidence that is publicly available, my opinion of what happened to her has stabilized in the last two years. Yes, it seems she had some sort of psychotic break from reality and got inside the tank on her own and died tragically as a result.

The enormous amount of armchair detectives (yes, this is what we are) online discussing this case has led to widespread dissemination of misinformation regarding the investigation and the evidence. Honestly, as more time passes, the worse it gets. For example, someone, who apparently doesn't know about David Paulides' work, just did 3 minutes of internet "research" on this case and decided to share his/her conclusion that the bloodless theory comes from the Dark Water movie, not the Lam case. No offense to this person, but that's just bad information, the kind that degrades a meaningful discussion of real events in time. The limited blood sample noted in the coroner's report is in fact where this bloodless theory originated, NOT a movie you read about. I'm not trying to belittle this person's commentary and participation, but it is just a perfect example of why I personally have lost nearly all the patience required to continue discussing the Elisa Lam case online.

The context in which David Paulides discussed the Elisa Lam case and the similarities he identified among all the urban disappearances he has researched is undoubtedly worth another thread altogether. But for me, I'm basically done separating fact from fiction for the new online detectives on this case. It pisses me off, and for this I'm truly sorry.

Truthlover: i am the 3 min research 'armchair detective' - and no offence taken.

So we have a case of a tragic death of a person with serious mental health problems.

We know she had conditions from:

- her parents
- her doctor
- the cctv video
- the coroners report

Multiple eyewitnesses and a cctv video and a coroners report which agree Lam was alone, no other person involved.

We have multiple people with direct experience of people suffering Psycotic Delusions agreeing that they behave unfortunately like LAM.

For me this is proof or evidence enough, that there was no foul play involved.


Still i took the time to do some research. (the 3min was a bit of understatement).
What i found in the research was a website of a guy who tried to make connections in all directions, including strange thing à la: "her last name has 3 letters, if you count the values of the letters in numerology, it s the same value like person x in the bible, which means...."


this particular person further writes that he is suffering from bipolar disorder as well.
I understand, that the tragic story hits home for a person who suffers the same conditions.
But with all respect: this person needs help and is probably not the best source pf information.

Then i went on, googled the name of Paulides. This 'respected researcher' seems to be someone who makes money with selling books. On topics like BigFoot and paranormal. That's when i stopped following this trail.

For the 'bloodless body':

- the body was 19 days in water, thus decomposing
- there are eyewitnesses who said they turned the tapwater on and it was black/foul smelling (and still they drank it....)

THATS where the blood and all the rest of the body fluids went: into the water, down the lines.

No invisible Vampires who sucked her dry without leaving teeth marks or any of the sort.

Case closed.

So the tables turned:

If you want to create a conspiracy theory, lay out your theory, present evidence supporting it.
Remember that extraordinary claims need extraordinary proof.
Remember that Psychotic Delusion is something serious (yes i am not only talking about Lam here....).
Remember your username.

And also remember that relatives and friends of Lam might read this and other threads and might find several things said disrespectful.

*mic drop*

Peace.

a reply to: svetlana84

I'm so excited to learn you've closed your case. You seem satisfied with your research, so good for you.

I don't like how you present the case evidence; I disagree with the quick judgments you've made about the case evidence and a true investigator like Paulides, who has decades of experience in law enforcement and research in missing persons cases. I disagree with the conclusions you've made. Sorry not sorry.

So the tables turned:

If you want to create a conspiracy theory, lay out your theory, present evidence supporting it.
Remember that extraordinary claims need extraordinary proof.
Remember that Psychotic Delusion is something serious (yes i am not only talking about Lam here....).
Remember your username.

Tables need not be turned at this point in time. I've said all I have to say about this case, none of which you bothered to read, and at no point did I ever "want to create a conspiracy theory." So this is me moving on.

How dare you bring my username into this.

a reply to: TruthLover557

Truthlover:

Let's start with bringing your username into this: i was on the fence about it. it just seemed ironic to me.
I did not put it in in the first version, i added it in the edit. I should not have done it and i apologise for it.

Second: "case closed" my words. The words of the Police and, if you go back to your second post in this thread (2013) your own words.

Third: You say you don't want to create a conspiracy theory. - Good. You say you are not happy with my presentation of evidence - Fair enough, I am not here to make everybody happy.

Last: i have read all your posts. I did not read or hear what Paulides has to say about it. So i can't discuss his theory. Yes i did a quick judgement, Coast to Coast, BigFoot, a writer who wants to sell books three buzzwords which for me are cool for entertainment value. But not for fact-finding.

So, if you want to give me a short summary of Paulides, i ll be happy to hear from it.
And maybe then i will understand which is your standpoint.