"The Rod for the Disobedient" - Wife Beating in Islam

Originally posted by Trueman

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
reply to post by Trueman

 

What? Dude.. if you dont see those same things I saw in the video then you need to watch it again. They are In There. Anyone on this forum can confirm this - why would i lie?

If it's true as reported then i dont see anything wrong with it.

It's wrong man, it's wrong.

I did say, " as reported" [by these guys in the video] read my post again then re-watch the video. Those things are really claimed in the video. I didn't make this up.. see for yourself..

IF the report these guys give is true, then this is Rod thing is nothing more than what amounts to a spanking to the women. - they do say it's not to be used to harm the woman - or did you just ignore that part of the video?

Of course I then asked if the video was accurate for mainstream Muslims.

I suppose you think it's wrong to spank a child too? If this is what the religion says, and they agree to it.. Who are YOU to say it's wrong? According to Your video, the Rod is not to be used for violence, only fair punishment under extreme circumstances that call for it.

It's the Exact same with disciplining a bad kid according to your video ( which we dont know is accurate ) When does spanking a child become harmful abuse? There is a line you dont cross when spanking a child.. thats the same thing they are saying these Muslim men have to conciser.

You are not taking into account the scriptures they quoted IS really in the Qur'an - the question becomes, Whats the meaning of these scriptures?

Perhaps the law abiding Muslims see it like the guys in this video do and the Extreme Muslims see it as a reason to harshly beat and harm the wife. You seem to be lumping all Muslims together on this and you can't - they all interpret the scriptures differently just like we do with the Bible.

Sorry...the two words," hit women" no matter the reason, the belief, or justification are wrong.
'Round here if you hit a woman? You'd best to fast enough to dodge that speeding bullet that will follow so I hope your reasoning is strong

I am against religion, because I firmly think and believe that it's just untrue, that it is only basic human philosophy.

In this case, you have to take into account that there is violence against women everywhere. I could give you statistics but it's not important and you can just look for it yourself. What is said in this video is that violence against women is "regulated". If you want an analogy you can think of legalised drugs : it is better to legalise it, then regulate it, then make sure no one crosses the line or goes too far etc., instead of letting shady characters run the show.

I have heard this argument from muslims (well mainly one, Tariq Ramadan) : if you see that violence is a subject in the quran, it is because violence is part of human nature, and it is better to talk about it, regulate it etc..

Well, that's all.

Personally I do not think violence is part of human nature, but this is another subject. Anthropologically speaking, I understand those people.

Originally posted by irishchic
Sorry...the two words," hit women" no matter the reason, the belief, or justification are wrong.
'Round here if you hit a woman? You'd best to fast enough to dodge that speeding bullet that will follow so I hope your reasoning is strong

I find it really funny and ironic that you are giving moral advice on women with an avatar that is a pole dancer/stripper.

Good reason for hitting a woman? If she hit first with malice toward you. It's called self defense. I'd not hesitate to hit any woman if she were trying to harm me. You know there are some women as strong as men who like to hurt other people just like there are bad man who like to harm people.

I maintain the question we should be asking is - Are these scriptures interrupted the same way by most Muslims. We have no answer on this yet.

bullying of any kind is usually a sign that there is a problem with the bully
the best way to stop violence is to respond with a better answer

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


I almost stopped watching at 5:30, just over half way through. I figured I'd seen enough and he wasn't such a bad guy... this host... talking about how it's NOT good to beat women. Well..I'm glad I hadn't stopped there because the other half really kicks you in the butt for how he closes out. He's not saying any such thing. He's just saying they shouldn't be beaten for fun or sport or "meanness" as he states. Good God, where do these people come from?!

I guess the concept of Divorce isn't a major thought in his mind. If someone gets to hating their partner so much that physical violence becomes a consideration? divorce them...but no. The last few minutes are correcting 'misconceptions' and specifying when it *IS* okay to beat her and what to beat her for. Oh... and according to him, women can go complain to a court and have the court beat the man, too. Wow... Violence is really a core value to some of them. This can't be a society wide thing.

@OP

Thanks for sharing. I'd hope this is like the Saudi goober that occasionally pipes up with justification for rape of women by Islamic fighters. I've yet to actually meet a Muslim who says they agree with that trash, but he keeps popping up occasionally to make a new 'fatwa' to that effect. We have some real nut jobs in the US too, of course. Surely he must be like that. If not? May he try that crap with a woman like THIS some day:

U.S. female sailor beats Dubai rapist bus driver into submission

I hope women learn of that incident and take the hint. Submitting to this is NOT necessary.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Thanks for the info.. I guess I'll have to watch the whole thing to see how he changes his opinion. I didn't expect that he would.

You say,

The last few minutes are correcting 'misconceptions' and specifying when it *IS* okay to beat her and what to beat her for. Oh... and according to him, women can go complain to a court and have the court beat the man, too. Wow... Violence is really a core value to some of them. This can't be a society wide thing.

I don't have any problem with violence in religion IF they willingly buying into it and agree to live that way - meaning as a religion that is.. Sure others may disagree with it.. ( even me - no religion should use violence to spread the message) But I wonder how much of this is hype and how much is reality..

I KNOW Muslim people myself ( living in an apartment/condo complex) and for the most part, they are very nice, non wife beating people. My theory is that only the extremists of the religion have this fascination with wife beating and it is not the norm as the Op makes one believe.]

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


I agree with you that we're seeing the extreme represented here. He's sure not talking for any Muslim I've met or known unless they all have some secret life they keep hidden from everyone else (yeah.. I didn't think so either).

I think what bothered me most about this guy and the video is his creepy smile/smirk throughout. Like the topic is mildly amusing to him and figures it's redundant to his audience but he 'just has to get it said' or something. Weird.

Nothing like justifying their actions of beating women with cases of spousal abuse here in the U.S.. "More beatings of women in the U.S. result in death as compared to beatings done by Islamic men?" That's comforting to know, so carry on! This religion is just plain sick.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix

According to Your video, the Rod is not to be used for violence, only fair punishment under extreme circumstances that call for it. It's the Exact same with disciplining a bad kid according to your video ( which we dont know is accurate )

Just wow....

What gives you the right to discipline anyone, apart from your own child ? Extreme circumstances that call for it ?? This implies that you are still the master of that person and if you deem it necessary, you can discipline her?


I think you went too far with comparison to a child. I guess you showed your features.

There is a line you dont cross when spanking a child.. thats the same thing they are saying these Muslim men have to conciser

This also shows you a bit...you being apologetic about this, shows that you actually, and you already stated, don't see anything wrong with this.

I doubt any normal women want to be beaten with a stick...whether it's skin deep or hurts to the bone. Try it on your wife/girl and let us know the results. Remember to use a stick...

...and comparing this to be same as disciplining a child...really man...that's so raw.

I just can't wait for muslim replies to this thread

HERE IT IS

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Thanks Wrabbit. Also consider muslim children watching TV over there, learning this sick practice.

I still don't see any muslim member in this thread with an explanation to that video, and that means something.

Originally posted by mideast

I just can't wait for muslim replies to this thread

HERE IT IS

"Here it is" what?

reply to post by Trueman

and that means something.

yes it means that ....

reply to post by Trueman

"the wisdon of islam is manifest in the existence of a further method: non-harsh beatings"

if this is the manifestation of islamic wisdom, why would anyone wish to be a part of it?

Originally posted by Trueman

Originally posted by mideast

I just can't wait for muslim replies to this thread

HERE IT IS

"Here it is" what?

if i had to guess, i'd say his point was that this is an accepted, "necessary", traditonal practice given to muslims by muhammad.

peace through violence.

Originally posted by mideast
reply to post by Trueman

 

and that means something.

yes it means that ....

Wow, thanks. So we have a muslim person here confirming the video.

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
reply to post by Trueman

 

"the wisdon of islam is manifest in the existence of a further method: non-harsh beatings"

if this is the manifestation of islamic wisdom, why would anyone wish to be a part of it?

Well, those guys that like to beat their wifes. They just need to convert to islam and it will be ok.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


Judgement much? The avatar is me and one of the many things I do is teach dance and movement that celebrates feminine movement to women who have been severely abused both physically and emotionally.

They are pretty damn "broken" when I meet them and the volunteer work I give my time and extensive background in dance in many styles to truly has transformative and healing powers in many ways! It allows them to build self confidence, to laugh, to trust within a safe female only environment, and to realize their worth and beauty again.

I have seen that "kicked dog" look in the eyes of too many women and seen their physical and emotional scars to ever accept that there is EVER a justification for abuse.Religious-based dogma included.

It's apparent to me as an educated and experienced person that a woman's sexuality is indeed a "threat" throughout history to those who would seek to control by their teachings and treatments.

I also have taught disabled female members of the military who have rewarded me with tears of gratitude as they regain strength and confidence.

My "moral compass" pretty much points to a higher ground that sure doesn't include judgement or an assumption that women who dance are somehow flawed...