UFO hucksters: Nick Redfern, Tim Beckley, Bill Birnes, Sean Casteel, Commander X & more!

Originally posted by CardDown
Secondly, the topic leads, by its nature, to an unsatisfying conclusion. .

Which is one reason why the subject seems to have been largely covered already. People believe they have perceived UFOs, there is little verifiable evidence. From the point of view of those looking for well researched and objective reporting there are only so many books and so many approaches to that one can come up with.

I did find "Mirage Men" very interesting. A lot of it was new to me but apparently it also covered familiar territory.

It often seems to me the situation has come full circle back to Jung.

reply to post by DelMarvel
Speaking of Jung, here's an interesting article from Fortean Times that might be new to some.

The Occult World of CG Jung

Getting back to the "cut and paste" allegations in the OP, he's not far off the mark. I'm examining the Cash-Landrum incident of 1980, and have tried to get my hands on everything written about it. According to Isaac Koi:

This incident is Case 30 in Isaac Koi's "Top 100" article, since it was referred to in 68 of the books covered by that article.

I've found several other books not on his list, but its all the same, no independent investigation, just a recap of someone elses work, 90% of it is simply repeating the reports John Schuessler printed in the MUFON Journal. Doing so, they are usually passing along the biases, spelling and factual mistakes in the earlier material. Typically, the only new thing offered is speculative analysis based on second-hand material.

This problem is not confined to the UFO field, it's common in books providing an overview of the history of a topic. It is also a relatively easy way to boost your page count!

Originally posted by The GUT
reply to post by DelMarvel

 

Speaking of Jung, here's an interesting article from Fortean Times that might be new to some.

The Occult World of CG Jung

Thanks for posting this! I knew the story about Freud's bookcase, of course, but a lot of this was new to me.

The more intelligent humans, as they age, they come to the same conclusion as the OP.

UFOlogy is a field of literary snake oil salesmen.

Guess what? I just graduated from UFO University, I'm an "expert" in the field of The Unknown!
That's right, I'm a UFO expert, who can tell me I'm not? Nobody that's who! Sell a book as an
expert, make money, find out my E.T.'s I made up are a little boring so I'll read a few fellow
hoaxer UFO books, collect their ideas, twist them a bit, but I'll mention them because you know
what? At the next UFO convention I can blow smoke up that guy's bum and say "Oh yeah...
the little short blue guys, like smurfs, right?" And the guy will play the same game back
"Uhm, yeah, their real alright, cha-ching, as real as the money in my bank account".

To those who are unaware, this is the Truth concerning 99% of UFOlogy, if there is 1 good
one, I would say it was Stanton, maybe someone else, but most are simply Whitley Streiber
types who can't sell their Sci-Fi, so they start calling it "real". I could go on and on, the
entire subject is shrouded in mystery for a reason, I know the true nature of 'paranormal'
UFOs, not the ones built by humans, it helps in knowing the B.S. from the truth but even
by not knowing anything about the true nature of paranormal UFOs the average citizen
could catch onto it, it's as authentic as shape-shifting reptilian out of focus horrible quality
pixelated videos on youtube, the cover for it that is, but there is a true 'secret' about paranormal
UFOs which seems to attract scum-bags across the universe to want to become UFOlogists,
the very very very few are pure in heart, and that heart is corrupted easily, it's because
of the nature of the subject itself.

There's really something about David Icke that rubs me the wrong way. His sales are astronomical on books and seminars. I'm not too sure how credible Jesse Ventura's "Conspiracy Theories" is but Icke seemed pretty stuck up about the whole thing. Birnes I genuinely like but think he tends to hold back for some reason.

Anybody care to share some thoughts on Icke in particular? I sat through his Credo Mutawaa interview for around five hours and some of it could barely understand. Never read any of his books though. Only John Mack, Phillip J. Imbrogno, Phillip Corso, and a little bit of Budd Hopkins. There are more I just can't think right now.

reply to post by DarkTemplar101


There's a huge world of difference between a David Icke and, say, a Jacques Vallee. I've never paid much attention to Icke but he's obviously selling a mythology that has no significant connection or concern with the reality (if any) of the UFO phenomenon.

The general gist of this thread is on target in that "ufology" is in a sorry state and has been for some time (maybe always and I was just naive.) Just look at the example of a Michael Lee Hill. You can take videos of airplanes at night over a major urban area and that and a wacky backstory are enough to launch you onto the UFO DVD and lecture circuit endorsed by a number of prominent "ufologists" none of whom even bother to do any real research whatsoever into your alleged sightings. These are lights that appear in the same place every night for years. It could be the best documented UFO flap in history. Instead, these folks apparently are off talking about Annunaki blood lines and other fantasies. It's almost as if everyone knows the Lake Erie lights aren't really UFOs, it's just a flimsy pretense to create a new UFO celebrity.

In my opinion there is not a problem when people use the UFO world making money off of books, just because all writers and publishers need to make a living. Having said that some researchers do more actual research than others. Redfern is a pure skeptic so even though he is a good researcher I do not wish to hear from him. When a dozen top military personal say they saw bodies I conclude they saw bodies, but Redfern would go as far to say they were clowns are zebras, not literally but it is the type of thing you can expect as something more outlandish than the alien truth. He goes on to talk about the contactees as if anyone wants to remember the great hoaxers of the day, for how smart he is that makes me think his books wouldn't be worth it at all unless you wanted to be a subject to a massive disinformation program.

Redfern first presented his highly controversial theory in 2005, in his book Body Snatchers in the Desert. In short, over the course of a number of years he was informed by several sources that the 'Roswell Incident' was actually one of seven or eight ill-fated experiments on human subjects who were used in a range of secret, balloon-based flights. What's more, the humans involved were not volunteers - rather, they were Japanese prisoners-of-war and/or handicapped people secretly removed from asylums and mental hospitals.

Umm, yeah, Nick probably works for the government and has a paid contract to lie to you and I.

Commander X was more into general conspiracies than aliens but he probably knew the most out of the group. Tim Beckley probably knows the second most just a little more than Birnes. He was involved with the phenomena since a young age. He did a lot of research on Dulce but doesn't talk about his findings, in fact he seems more interested in running a business than talking at all. Bill Birnes is a TV personality and had a long time running UFO magazine, so he knows a lot. Very interesting when he told the public that his History channel show was canceled because they went up to Dulce.

reply to post by DelMarvel


That's understandable if you choose not to believe a wide range of them. It's an unprecedented subject so the thought on "UFO expert" or "UFOlogist" can come off as a joke. However I definitely think there is something here, and that they are on to something.

Despite the many fakes, frauds, and debunked, what about the un-debunked? I like to consider "Victor" in that category as his tape has not been proven either false or true. Yes, he demanded money from Rocket Pictures, but in my opinion could have milked someone for a hell of a lot more. I say his case is different because he chose not to even give his identity. Listen to this man speak during the video and interview, he's highly intelligent and well-spoken. His more recent interview in the desert also coincides on your notion that "UFOlogy" is in a bad state. It damages our progress from getting to the truth when people choose to sell out or hoax because wolf has been cried so many times.

As far as books and all that, I say anybody can choose to write anything they wish. There's tons of disinformation going around and it's up to the individual to choose wisely who to go with. I like to check one out at a time and see how I feel keeping an open mind, but to each their own.

Commander X was, If I recall correctly, several different authors collaborating under a pseudonym.

There were rumors floating around at one point that Commander X was actually Jim Keith, but I don't know if anyone ever actually confirmed this...

Originally posted by FlyingTeacup
reply to post by The GUT

 

It's quite possible that Keyhoe was a CIA operative.

everyone is/was CIA operative at one time of their life..

just check Steven Seagal's bio

Originally posted by DelMarvel

Originally posted by Zcustosmorum

Originally posted by DelMarvel

Originally posted by Zcustosmorum
Why do you think Donald Keyhoe wrote his books, to make money or set down the truth?

I'm not making a comment on Keyhoe here one way or another here but he did start out as a science fiction and fantasy writer for the pulps.

Cool, just curious, saying someone is a liar is quite a statement mate, glad you didn't say it outright

I'm not saying Keyhoe was a liar; I'm saying he started out as a fiction writer, same as Whitely Strieber for example.

I hadn't really thought of it in these terms for a while but the reality might be more complex than just "lying" or "telling the truth"---like the Shaver mysteries, for example.

NICAP's case file is what every UFO researcher should look into, not Keyhoe. Dont let D.Keyhoe influence NICAP database as its one of the great source of research tool.

as for Keyhoe himself, i have to agree with Ruppelt that while D.Keyhoe always present correct facts , its his hypothesis/conclusion that put him in the questionable box. D.Keyhoe is firm believer of nuts-n-bolt-real-flying-craft UFO and biological extra-terrestrial aliens or what is know today as believer of Extra Terrestrial Hypothesis, which is fair to say that conclusion is based on PURE FAITH since no nicap case data indicates any evidence of ETH.

Originally posted by FlyingTeacup
Redfern book. Nick Redfern is an armchair researcher who scans declassified documents for little pieces of information and then presents them as EARTH-SHATTERING REVELATIONS!!! He always reminds listeners that all his books come from FOIA requests. It's a gimmick to sell books, and Redfern is good at it.

And just who exactly is this Commander X yahoo? "Ohhhh! You are afraid that you will be hunted down by the CIA for revealing that UFOs are really flown by Satan!" Please! Same types of books, same schlock. I'm going to bet that Commander X is one of these people that I've previously mentioned.

Redfern, Birnes, Beckley, Casteel, Commander X, etc Look at their "work", they all do the same thing. Here is a conspiracy for you, these people all sound like they are in on this scam together. Seriously people don't buy these books. They are complete frauds, liars, snake oil salesmen, hucksters, pie in the sky dreamers, and out right conartists. WAKE UP PEOPLE! The real disinfo is coming from within the UFO community itself!

N.Redfern are selling the usual BS for entertainment, dont take what he wrote as realistic or real, treat it as fiction. the resulting book from his 'research' are hilariously bad and conglomeration of ideas taken from other people in the genre. dont expect new stuff from this guy, only recycled items.

i wouldnt dismiss Commander X, after all with 'commander' in his name that should count for something , right ? ;-)

The way i see it is the quality of Nick Redfern's books have gone downhill since Cosmic Crashes.
Lack of depth and content make him a third division author in my humble opinion.

It really chaps my ass that David Icke comes up in topics like this, when he is --NOT-- a Ufologist. As for me, I think he is a fabulous Truther and personal hero of mine. He's not 100% right, and he is a flawed human being with his own beliefs and ignorances. But his overall messages are good, good things. It takes -money- in this money based world to do anything. I myself cannot go anywhere interesting outside my town because I don't have a vehicle. I don't have one, because I don't have enough --money-- to have one. You need --money-- for:
food, phone, internet, rent, mortgage, vehicle, feul, clothes, shoes, hygene items, pet food, cat litter, insurance, and...........giving lectures and conferences.
But oh yes, Ufology is a wretched hive of scum and villany,

a reply to: greyer
Greetings:

There are way too many "dead ends" at Dulce.

As we know Timothy Beckley personally, and have first-hand
knowledge of his publishing prowess since his early teens, we
consider him the real deal.

If one hasn't read The Shaver Mystery and the Inner Earth: Timothy Green Beckley, it is highly recommended.

Nancy Birnes is another friend and is the former editor of UFO Magazine. "She has been a journalist since she was in 11th grade in 1964. She has won many awards, including the Samuel Shellabarger Award for Creative Writing when she graduated from Princeton, summa cum laude, in 1979."

Nancy and Bill host a podcast called Future Theater. You can find out more about Nancy on their website: www.FutureTheater.com.

And this:
Free forum : The UFO Magazine Forum

originally posted by: The GUT
reply to post by FlyingTeacup

 

Dolan? Sincere but prejudiced to the point of delusion possibly. Goode? Probably much the same. They both, to me, seem to disregard much of the extant info in service to their own preconceptions. Keyhoe?Either disinfo or fanatical belief in the ETH. Just my opinion for what its worth...or not.

I havent read Dolan's books, but his online material seems pretty good and he does seem willing to question his findings

www.richarddolanpress.com...#!malmstrom/cxp


One article I liked in particular was this one

www.richarddolanpress.com...#!twelve-government-documents/cg96

Nick Redfern is a good guy who has the right to make a living as a writer. He’s a researcher in the sense that he travels to interview people, has a wide circle of connections, seeks FOIAs and trawls through the various archives for primary documents. What more can he do than that? He’s detached himself from ufology-at-large because of stuff like this in the OP.

Since at least 1998, it’s acceptable to include web addresses in the references of research papers and reference books.

Tim Beckley is also someone I have a fondness for because he’s helped me out without a second thought. In terms of my personal interactions with him, how could I have a negative word for someone who will help a stranger? Back in the early years, he was publishing newsletters and providing venues where UFO nuts could meet and discuss new events. He did a fair amount of research as a reporter of UFO incidents and interviewer of witnesses. He’s been decades in ufology/paranormal and might even be the eldest veteran we have since Jim Moseley passed.

Sensationalism and marketing go together. Beckley and Redfern have released books that were publish on demand and were written to be sold and make money. Others have come through publishers and also are aimed at making money – it’s their job. It happens everywhere, but ufology is one of the worst for demanding unrealistic standards that aren’t expected elsewhere.

There's no getting away from the fact that ufology/paranormal/esoterica has a lot of bad books and poor writers so I don't buy them. I've bought Beckley, Redfern, Keyhoe, Kimball, Swords and Vallee books in the past year.

originally posted by: thorfourwinds
a reply to: greyer
Greetings:

There are way too many "dead ends" at Dulce.

As we know Timothy Beckley personally, and have first-hand
knowledge of his publishing prowess since his early teens, we
consider him the real deal.

If one hasn't read The Shaver Mystery and the Inner Earth: Timothy Green Beckley, it is highly recommended.

Nancy Birnes is another friend and is the former editor of UFO Magazine. "She has been a journalist since she was in 11th grade in 1964. She has won many awards, including the Samuel Shellabarger Award for Creative Writing when she graduated from Princeton, summa cum laude, in 1979."

Nancy and Bill host a podcast called Future Theater. You can find out more about Nancy on their website: www.FutureTheater.com.

And this:
Free forum : The UFO Magazine Forum

Thanks for the adds, but I am extremely weary of public informants, whether they are informing a UFO crash, or a UFO cover-up (A crashed saucer or a weather balloon). Time after time these so called researchers turn out to be working for the government, for what purpose? To take publications or claimed experiences and to change around the truths of the event into a methodical organized manipulation of the human mind, based on disinformation, which is telling the true story, but lying about all of the plot that happened in the true story.

For example, Barney Hill claimed to see an alien with a scarf, initially. But the media, who in my opinion as a whole is possessed by Satan himself, stated in documented history that Barney claimed the alien had a scarf on After the first hypnosis. They changed around the events in the story to benefit the skeptic, but based on selfish, prideful, and evil motivations - to not let people discover the TRUTH.

The documented history, is always the false history, the history that is a lie, because the world is evil.

It is the groups of citizens, not executives, which call out truth, and I am having deja vu.

Every single person in the world, who is not working to be holy, is a liar, motivated by simple selfish means of their ego and pride, to feel better about themselves, but it is a delusion! And the truth wishes to keep itself secret lest be taken advantage of and be manipulated by the human mind.

An example is in the 1990s, a group of people came together to disclose the truth to the public, and created a show called Sightings. These types of programs are long lost to humanity, and the executives and government (rich people) have tightened their clamp down on the media since the 'terror alert' age. In 2015 the media is teaching the world to be fake - to never be truthful to people - to always hide your feelings - because humanity is not deserving enough to know the truth, it is a huge cycle of evil created by the rich people.

So as we can see the benefits of the truth is being told the truth, so in this episode of Sightings we learn that around the same time Paul Bennewitz is investigating the cattle mutilations around Dulce, which is the same time South America was being invaded by UFOs, and hundreds of people were going into hospitals from being hit by lasers from UFOs, we can actually learn the truth which is being covered up, that in Russia on the other side of the planet people were getting chased into the forest by orbs and balls of light, which burned them. So for half a decade, we had this invasion happen across all of the world, yet people claim nothing has changed in the world, claiming the UFOs are still here from their fakes on youtube, it is pathetic hypocrisy that I hate with such a passion, I truly hate a liar who is being a liar just to pride his own ego, it shows complete separation of humanity and direct opposition to God.

I would not call Nick Redfern and Tim Beckley "hucksters".