We'll be uploading our entire MINDS to computers by 2045 Google expert claims

I don't get it...
Why do so many people say "You won't feel anything"? All emotions can (via future technology) to be artificially stimulated. That means that you will easily be uploaded, your consciousness intact.

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People

Originally posted by sapien82

....what defines us as humans our soul/ consciousness

Our memories are not just a bunch of stand-alone pieces of data -- they are all interconnected and interwoven with each other through the brain's synaptic pathways and chemical reactions. For example, if I smell apple pie, it may provoke a memory of some autumn evening with my family 20 years ago. If this proposed computer brain had the information stored about apple pie (and it had some way of smelling) all it would do is say "Yep, that's apple pie you smell", without provoking that memory from 20 years ago.

edit on 6/21/2013 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)

I believe that with future technology, it will all be possible. There are now many projects to build a brain...Take the 1.3 bn European Commission's investement in the Brain project as a good example. With current technology, no, but with future technology, yes, why not? If the brain can do it, why can't we simply build a artifical brain and make it 10000x smaller? In fact, if the brain is so efficient, why not make modern computer networks more like the human brain? All the arguments stated here are either spiritual (oppinion orientated), or stating that we don't YET have the technology to do something. It will all be possible in the future. Just don't sign up to version 1.0, and you will be fine.

reply to post by omass


I never said it will never be possible. It might be, and it might not be.

However, the point of the op was that they will have computers that would have the storage capcity of the human brain. Howver, the storage capacity may not be enough.

What is a "memory"? How do I know my daughter's name? Or her face, for that matter?
Is my knowledge of my daughter's face a single brain cell whose data can be uploaded to a computer? Or is it a bunch of little tiny bits of information spread all over my brain, but interconnected through hundreds or thousands of synaptic connections?

I assume every bit on knowledge in our conciosness is spread around our brains, each distinct memory made up of many many smaller bits of information. To create a computer to hold our consciousness, we would:

1. First need to make a detailed map of all of the tiny bits of information spread all over our brain, and then map out the thousands/millions of connections between those tiny bits of information that -- when put all together -- constitute a single thought or memory.

and

2. Create a computer that can mimic all of those internal connections our brain has.

I suppose someday in the far future this may be possible (maybe -- considering most technologies are "possible"), but there is no way our technology is even CLOSE to making this possible. We don't even know how the brain even works yet to be able to mimic what a brain does. We don't even know what a thought or memory really is to be able to create a machine that can retrieve thoughts or memories.

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


Ok, I get it. But the question here is: Does the information on the brain HAS to be stored the way it is stored, or is it possible to store it differently? Perahaps the way that it is stored in the brain is one of a million ways that it can be stored...just like information can be stored in differnt ways.

My first replies to this thread were obviously in jest, as there are a few things, at least on the surface that make this a fun intellectual topic... ie. what would it feel like to be "defragged". The more I think about the ramifications, though, the more I think that it is a horribly bad thing to do.
First of all, science still has no real understanding of how the mind works. Granted, we have studied the brain in great detail, mapped out areas that control certain processes and have a basic understanding of how the chemistry works. The brain is just an organ that serves as a CPU for the mind, so to speak. The mind is a completely different concept from the brain, and seemingly infinitely complex. Twins are a good example. If two people on this planet have any chance of having identical brains, twins would be where to look. Many twins have common speech patterns, mutual idiosyncrasies and other traits that would imply "sameness"... yet one could be deeply spiritual and the other an atheist. Two very like minded people, yet totally different belief systems. Why? Even if those twins are joined at the hip throughout their formative years, experiencing life together and sharing common events, each one will still have a different perspective on the world as everyone of us learn from our experiences in our own way.
Software developers love flow charts. Flow charts graphically represent how the program "thinks"... ie. "or" switches "and" switches and other boolean arguments... could you even imagine just how much paper would be involved to "flow chart" just 1 person's thought patterns? Or how much that "flow chart" would be dependent on an individual's mood and thinking at that time? Not to mention the fact that programmers know EXACTLY how today's computers work, yet software is released that is buggy... pretty sure I don't want these guys trying to program me on a system they barely understand...
Beyond that, the programming involved to make this concept work for just 1 person's mind would be insanely complex and would probably take decades just to debug. By the time they actually got it to work, they would have to start all over as the "test subject" would no doubt be fundamentally different by this time by the effects of learning and experience.
Some of the "what-ifs" I made in jest are actually pretty scary. We are born, we live our lives, then we die. It is a natural process. After we die, we move on (or so we like to believe)... but... what if your AI mind started to think outside of what the other AI minds believe that you should? Could you then be "boxed" ala Battlestar Galactica? Your mind and being, your "esse" put on a memory device and powered off forever... consigned to oblivion on a hard drive in a government warehouse somewhere.
Someone would also have to physically maintain the computer that you are loaded on. How long would you be viable in such a system if the power were shut off? Would you survive a hardware crash? If you could be "recovered", how much data would be lost? Would you still be "you" if your "emotion" subroutine was removed because the external programmers want more predictability from the system?
Mechanical immortality? No thanks.
I'll take my chances and be happy with my time here.

The prospect of a memory back up is very cool.

With that, or soon after, comes computers that are exceedingly smarter than humans. That's intriguing, and thoroughly frightening at the same time.

reply to post by DichroChrono


And with that, a Moore's Law with a vastly shorter interval...

How soon till the AI makes us like ants in comparison?

reply to post by EasyPleaseMe


Never, if you make sure and plug in WITH it.

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People
reply to post by omass

 

I never said it will never be possible. It might be, and it might not be.
However, the point of the op was that they will have computers that would have the storage capacity of the human brain. However, the storage capacity may not be enough.
What is a "memory"? How do I know my daughter's name? Or her face, for that matter?
Is my knowledge of my daughter's face a single brain cell whose data can be uploaded to a computer? Or is it a bunch of little tiny bits of information spread all over my brain, but interconnected through hundreds or thousands of synaptic connections?

Hence this is why the brain and connectomes (synaptic connections of every neuron in the brain from point to point) are being mapped. Connectomics. The capacity to do so depends on a number of factors. One of them, long term potentiation, or long term memory could possibly be stored in the configuration of trillions of protein subunits called tubulin in the brain which behave like computer bits. However, in the case of the brain, it could behave like a quantum computer in my opinion. Even if you do not believe in the brain behaving like a quantum computer, then at least consider that, when the nervous impulse arrives at the synapses, the output is digital.

Brain as a quantum computer

Memory probability

The output of the brain must be mapped in order to make sense of it. If you can hook up electrodes to the brain and then create a powerful sensory memory or thought, there are many neurones which follow the same pathways in order to consider a thought. For example, think of the sweetest orange you have ever tasted.

Then the pathways can be mapped for digital output from start to finish, amplified and then stored in a computer. Many corresponding strong memories could be mapped and the main pathways traced. Lesser known pathways of abstract thought could be a bit more difficult. But then, consider that a multitude of different brain mapping technologies could be used simultaneously: ionic output mapping, microwave or terahertz scanning and other electromagnetic scanning... How do they work? You tickle the brain with a laser when you ask someone to think a strong, powerful memory, and then observe the changes in the laser and corresponding electrical outputs and scans. Is it possible? Hell yes! Robert Duncan claims to have insider knowledge of these projects and presents reasonably possible information on how it has been in progress for many years:

Here is secret #1 that has been suppressed by the forces of ignorance in the government. There was a patent that I will keep referring to throughout this book because of the importance of the work. It is published in the appendix. In 1974, Robert Malech , an employee of Dorn & Margolin Inc., a major defense subcontractor in radar design now owned by EDO Corporation an even larger all defense contractor in electronic warfare, invented a fairly simple radar device that

Secret #2. But more profoundly, he discovered that he could influence brain waves if precisely timed with a return training signal. He had no idea that at this moment in history, he had accidentally destroyed democracy as we envision it to be. The military and surveillance community immediately picked up on the patent and within two years had reprogrammed their communications and surveillance satellites and terrestrial phased arrays with the new concepts. The rapid deployment of this technology occurred because it only required software changes in already existing radar, imaging, and communications‟ terrestrial dishes and satellites. Many additional spy satellites have been launched since to bolster the system. So in 1976, on the bicentennial of this great nation, a system called TAMI was born. TAMI is an acronym for “Thought Amplifier and Mind Interface”. A more invasive “Big Brother” technology came about before George Orwell‟s prediction of 1984.

Secret #3. Stealth RADAR techniques were first recorded by observing the Russian bombardment of the U.S. embassy in Moscow with microwaves. Using high powered steered phased arrays and focused directed energy from two sources next to each other, one can create a nearly undetectable “scalar” wave, or destructive interference at the point of interest. With just a minor energy interaction, the interfering beams bounce back with strong signal to noise ratio to be resolved at the sources again. This allows for any imaging technique to be done from extremely large distances. In effect, it makes distance irrelevant to the detection feature, be it RADAR, MRI, or ESR imaging.

Dr Robert Duncan - The Matrix Deciphered

I'll keep my body thanks, even if it becomes stupid compared to the intelligence of AI.

I would rather die and live for eternity in the afterlife with full spiritual capabilities than be restricted in a machine for eternity. Perhaps I will become one of the people who maintains the machine and keeps it running, perhaps I will switch it off and rid this world of all you idiots. The world will be a better place that's for sure.