TWA Flight 800 investigators break silence in new documentary, claim original conclusion about caus

reply to post by jmdewey60


The Afghan rebels used standard FIM-92 Stingers, as well as whatever Soviet missiles were in country. There are improved warheads, but there aren't any that are as you described. There are some that have delayed impact fusing, kinetic fusing, etc, but none that would cause a 747 to shatter into 5 pieces. No matter how you fuse it, 10 pounds of explosives is not going to cause a large commercial airliner to shatter like that, unless it's a Hollywood movie.

Shoulder fired missiles are designed primarily as infrared missiles. That means they're going to track on heat sources, the larger the more appealing. That means engines are going to be major targets, so the impact would be somewhere out along the wing. The most likely hit point, even if it hit number 2 or 3 engine is the thickest part of the wing, where the spar is the thickest, and the wing is strongest.

I have to say that anyone who hasn't watched it stop what you're doing and do it now. It really is one of the better docs i have seen and the evidence is very compelling. I think in the digital age the NTSB may have to reopen the case.

reply to post by NickDC202


YEah he's one of the ones i mentioned clearly lying, but when they showed him the splatter pattern he did look shocked, stunned even.

I was giving the benefit of the doubt thinking that look on his face was "omg how did we miss this, maybe we were wrong". Now I'm thinking it's more along the lines of "crap, how'd they get access to that?"

eitherway, i think the jig is up and hopefully we'll see the case reopened.

Much like I've said about 911, my feelings about the families are this:

If I died in one of these events, I'd want my family to know what really happened, without that, my death was meaningless. Finding out the truth will not bring these loved ones back, that's a fact. But the families deserve honest answers.

Watching the scene at the end where they asked them to sign the petition as they explain their theory, you can see many of the family members nodding. They already know the official story is bunk. I think they need confirmation.

We'll never see "them" admit to it. But if the case gets reopened, we'll at least see them have to backtrack, and plenty of high ups will have a lot of explaining to do.

I had a flashback to an episode of the X-files while watching this. Yes, yes i know, fiction, whatever. The episode dealt with a conspiracy nut who was being abducted by aliens, and had some alien artifact while onboard a plane that was brought down. During the resulting NTSB investigation, you watch a cover-up unfolding. Very erie similarities in my opinion. I can't remember what season it was, it probably happened before twa800 but i'll have to check my boxset.

And, for the record, Chris Carter did often use members of the FBI and other agencies as advisers. I'll assume some people here are familiar with the pilot episode of "The Lone Gunman" and the link to 911, but if not, google it.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

The Afghan rebels used standard FIM-92 Stingers, as well as whatever Soviet missiles were in country. There are improved warheads, but there aren't any that are as you described. There are some that have delayed impact fusing, kinetic fusing, etc, but none that would cause a 747 to shatter into 5 pieces. No matter how you fuse it, 10 pounds of explosives is not going to cause a large commercial airliner to shatter like that, unless it's a Hollywood movie.

Shoulder fired missiles are designed primarily as infrared missiles. That means they're going to track on heat sources, the larger the more appealing. That means engines are going to be major targets, so the impact would be somewhere out along the wing. The most likely hit point, even if it hit number 2 or 3 engine is the thickest part of the wing, where the spar is the thickest, and the wing is strongest.

Which is exactly what the documentary says, it provides evidence of leading edge damage caused by an outside force that was ignored by the FBI. Not to mention evidence of molten metal impacting the fuel tank pre- explosion.

Have you watched it yet? You really should if you're going to be commenting on the claims on the video.

Almost Every very valid point you have brought up was addressed by the video.

reply to post by Zaphod58

The Afghan rebels used standard FIM-92 Stingers, as well as whatever Soviet missiles were in country. There are improved warheads, but there aren't any that are as you described. There are some that have delayed impact fusing, kinetic fusing, etc, but none that would cause a 747 to shatter into 5 pieces. No matter how you fuse it, 10 pounds of explosives is not going to cause a large commercial airliner to shatter like that, unless it's a Hollywood movie.

The conclusion they reached was this:

first missile, if not all of them were proximity fuses, they get close to the target and explode without impacting it directly. First one exploded near the left wing, causing a sharp bank, shattering the top of the wing and releasing the fuel into a vapor trail. Second Missile strikes towards the front of the craft or near the center fuel tank, third target explodes head on near the nose of the plane as the cockpit splits off and drops.

You wouldn't even need 10lbs of explosives to do that, you are rupturing the fuel tank then igniting the resulting trail of fuel.

Beyond that, wouldn't that be the first, and only, stinger or SAM attack by terrorists on US soil? don't you think, if they had the ability to get missiles into the country, we'd have seen a bunch more? Maybe swissair was shot down too?

Everything about this screams US government to me, it's just hard to see the end game in relation to TWA800. But if the target was the El Al flight, makes perfect false flag sense to me.

And no, I stopped drinking the Alex Jones brand koolaid a long time ago.

Interesting but waste of time. I wonder how many whistles will be blown by others on the countless events from the past. Nothing will come out of the investigation even if proven right. Something else will takeover the topic of discussion and interest and it will be all 'sweeped under the rug' as usual

reply to post by phishyblankwaters


My problem continues to be the launch signature. If they're firing three missiles, even MANPANDS have a signature that should have been seen by one of the pilots in the area. Especially if they fired three of them.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by drock905
Two is not a lot but the government singled out these guys and then lied about what they reported to fit their explanation. I'm not saying it was def a missle I just found it interesting that they changed eyewitness testimony for the animation.

I think it would be impossible to make an animation that matched 200 different eyewitness accounts. It's pretty well known that witnesses don't all see and recall the same thing even when watching the same event.

Sure but the one witness said roughly " i saw what looked like a cheap firework rise vertically from behind this house, go in a zig zag motion across the sky and and then i saw a huge fireball" They specifically used his vantage point and then ignored what he saw to create the animation. Claiming he just saw 800 on fire flying through the sky after the front section fell away. He denies that is what he saw and even contacted the FBI when the animation was released.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by phishyblankwaters

 

My problem continues to be the launch signature. If they're firing three missiles, even MANPANDS have a signature that should have been seen by one of the pilots in the area. Especially if they fired three of them.

There are one or two private pilots and one ex military helicopter pilot flying that night that saw what they claim were "missiles" being launched at flight 800.

Its in the Documentary

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by Zaphod58

 

A number of the students were high school students from Williamsport, PA.
My now deceased father-in-law told me something interesting the night that it happened.
He was at work when a coworker received a call from her son in the US Navy. He said that the ship that he was stationed on shot Flight 800 down. It was accidental, according to him.
I know that it sounds incredible in that someone would have surely talked about it since then and what reason would there be for the government to cover it up.
But that is what I heard the night that it occurred.

I heard the same story when I was younger too; in a chat room, some young man in the Navy didn't break the rules over secrets but his group were all saying it was an accident from a ship, which is weird because he was not around the area but he had knowledge. Of course, some days they are told what their boss wants them to hear, but that was their attitude that it was an accident. Except, there are no accidents...

They did mention the word "ship".

Here is a link to the passenger list: (The guy who compiled the list was trying to get to the truth of this tragedy, so you see some of his notes on the page)

whatreallyhappened.com...

Some names of interest:

Note

01- Notes, Gadi, 29, senior associate at investment banking division of Donaldson, Lufkin &Jenrette,Inc., Israeli citizen (Merchant Bank represented is (new). Broker of deal. Manhattan

02- Charles H. "Hank" Gray, 47, Memphis, president and chief operating officer of Midland Financial Group, Inc. (Has many ties to Arkansas) (Gray III, Little Rock)

03- Story, William R., president and chief executive officer of National American Insurance Co. of California.

04- Rhein, Kirk Jr., 42, president and chief executive of the Danielson Holding Corp., an insurance company, and a partner in the investment firm Whitman, Heffernan, Rhein & Co., of Darien, Conn. Ed Note: There is a lot of interest here. ---

05- Beatty, Charles, 50, senior systems engineer with the Naval Surface Warfare Center in Dahlgren, Va.; of Spotsylvania, Va. The Dahlgren Division is a Navy Research and Development Center located 50 miles east of Washington DC. The work mainly involves the development of requirements and software to support the AEGIS US Naval ships. The Weapon System computer program generates commands for the control of Standard Missiles, Harpoon missiles, 5' guns, interceptor aircraft, ASW aircraft, and helicopters and to furnish designation data for the 20mm Phalanx and 5" gun weapon systems. The FCS directs illumination on the target for missile homing.

Visit the link to see this guys notes on the entire list of victims.

reply to post by Zaphod58

My problem continues to be the launch signature. If they're firing three missiles, even MANPANDS have a signature that should have been seen by one of the pilots in the area. Especially if they fired three of them.

And your problem would be addressed if you watched the video, i suggest you do. hell, even skip to 1 hour and 20 minutes in if you have to.

they WERE seen by pilots. Their testimony was not allowed

reply to post by randyvs


I wonder that too and, excluding this long-planned documentary, suspect that if the public is flooded with a ton of information/revelations at the same time that they'll simply be so overwhelmed that everything will sound like the voice teacher from Charlie Brown and the really important stuff will be missed in the tsunami of information.

reply to post by phishyblankwaters


Not just pilots but one of them is decorated veteran and Air National Guard pilot Frederick C. Meyer whose statement after the explosion was:

"I know what I saw. I saw an ordnance explosion. And whatever I saw, the explosion of the fuel was not the initiator of the event. It was one of the results. Something happened before that which was the initiator of the disaster.''

reply to post by hp1229

Interesting but waste of time.

the truth is never a waste of time.

Riddle me this. What will Joe Six Pack say to all of us "911 conspiracy nuts" when it's proven the US government downed this plane? How can we all be "cooks" then? How can anyone listen to their explanations if we can prove this event was covered up, be it because they wanted to save face about letting terrorists run rampant in the long island area with stinger missiles.

Also.... once the military did those tests with stingers, the witnesses said the stinger launches looked exactly like what they saw.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by phishyblankwaters

 

My problem continues to be the launch signature. If they're firing three missiles, even MANPANDS have a signature that should have been seen by one of the pilots in the area. Especially if they fired three of them.

reply to post by madmac5150


I seem to remember that afterward there were some whiteness whom claimed they saw something streaking toward the plane like a missile, we can only speculate as to why but I for one have believed it was shot down on there account since it happened, I hope that the family's of the victim's can find closure and see justice done here.

reply to post by NickDC202

Not just pilots but one of them is decorated veteran and Air National Guard pilot Frederick C. Meyer.

Pretty baffling that his testimony was completely ignored no? Ignoring JFK and a few other conspiracies, TWA 800 was the first that really sparked my interest in the whole hidden history type thing.

but you brought up something I overlooked, with so many things happening at once, disclosure might come but be overwhelmed. The attention span of the media is about 3 to 5 days, get your story out and repeated enough for that long, it's as good as fact.

some drunk guy on the beach, sure, you can question his account. some party girl on a boat? sure, probably not reliable...

Actual airline pilots and decorated vietnam veteran rescue chopper pilot? Not so easy to ignore.

reply to post by LABTECH767

I seem to remember that afterward there were some whiteness whom claimed they saw something streaking toward the plane like a missile,

Some? Try basically all of them. 200 is the number that gets tossed around a lot, but it's higher than that, 200 people basically share the exact same experience, from different angles. Much like some of the physics of the 911 story, the physics here just don't float, or fly, or climb.

I do recall watching a video that was basically trying to debunk the whole thing, and never once did it relate the fact that the source of the ignition was never determined. Go watch the news reports in the video, they never once hint that it was undetermined, they state, as fact, it was a spark from a wire.

Yet, right there in the video using their own documents, you find out, that's what they ASSUME happened, they can't prove it. Beyond that, the only electrical system running in the fuel tank simply had no ability to create a spark or arc to ignite the fuel vapor.

Link to a site with a google earth presentation of the witnesses that had clear views of the streaks coming form the surface and striking the aircraft.

twa800.com...